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Toronto-Colorado(Blockbuster)

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Old
02-06-2013, 01:32 AM
  #76
dahrougem2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
By one dimensional do you mean he is a good playmaker or that he is a great goal scorer ? Since he's both I find that description faulty.
One dimensional meaning that he is solely an offensive player, you won't see Kessel out there on the PK or sent out there to stop the opposing teams top line, its usually the Leafs trying to find weaker lines for him to go up against; On the other hand, O'Reilly is sent out there every game to shut down the opposition's top line and put up 55 points last season while leading the league in takeaways. He's been asked to play against the opposing team's top line since he was an 18 year old rookie, so yes, O'Reilly is just as valuable as Kessel, though to me he is more valuable

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02-06-2013, 06:07 AM
  #77
AlMo
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Originally Posted by dahrougem2 View Post
Would you rather have Phil Kessel or Patrice Bergeron for a run at the cup? Because that is who O'Reilly has shown he can be, and I take Bergeron 11 times out of 10
Bergeron/O'Reilly are definitely players that you need to make a long playoff run but you also need highly skilled offensive players that put the puck in the net.

IMO, it would cost more than O'Reilly to land Kessel. Phil is a consistent 30 scorer who is entering the prime of his career who finished with 80+ points last season. Players like that don't become available very often.

I also think Bozak is very underrated in this thread.

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02-06-2013, 06:15 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Muffin View Post
No, no, and no

The 1st could be a top 10 or top 5 pick, Avs won't be giving that up. Downie is worth a 1st round pick, you're not getting him for Liles and a 3rd. Bozak and Sgarbossa is a wash.
If Downie is worth a 1st rounder, Bozak is too.

Bozak puts up the same numbers, plays in all situations and is pretty good in the faceoff circle.

Downie might be more of an aggressive player but Bozak is a smarter player.

IMO, they are a wash. Typical HF always devaluing Leafs players and pumping tires on other team's players.

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Old
02-06-2013, 06:31 AM
  #79
Pierce Hawthorne
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Originally Posted by AlMo View Post
Bergeron/O'Reilly are definitely players that you need to make a long playoff run but you also need highly skilled offensive players that put the puck in the net.

IMO, it would cost more than O'Reilly to land Kessel. Phil is a consistent 30 scorer who is entering the prime of his career who finished with 80+ points last season. Players like that don't become available very often.

I also think Bozak is very underrated in this thread.
Kessel has only had the one 80 point season, and he's yet to score a goal this year after more then 20% of the season. It certainly doesn't look like Kessel is actually a 80 point player, that's looking more and more like an anomaly.

I think the Avs should go a different route then Kessel. Im not sold on him being anything more then a 60 point guy, and given his one dimensional play I would expect a lot more out of him then 60 points. Not a fan of Kessel.

As for Bozak, I somewhat agree that he is a little underrated, but why would the Avs trade for a guy who, could very easily be joining the Avs at the cost of no assets this summer. He supposedly grew up as an Avs fan and right now is living in Denver. If the Avs are interested in him, he'll quite likely sign here this offseason.

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Old
02-06-2013, 06:55 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Muffin View Post
I would do O'Reilly and a top 10 protected 1st for Kessel. Don't really like the rest, plus I can't see the Avs taking Liles back after trading him away for a 2nd.
at least your being reasonable unlike some others. We can work with that

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02-06-2013, 07:00 AM
  #81
Man Bear Pig
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Originally Posted by dahrougem2 View Post
I do believe that, as do a lot of people. Kessel is a one dimensional streaky scorer, yes he has 40 goal potential but that's all you're really getting.

O'Reilly led the Avs in points last year while leading the league in takeaways, a distinction that Pavel Datsyuk is usually known for, and is great defensively, you can tell how different our PK looks this season with him holding out. He's a complete player, not saying he's a superstar by any means but he's a perfect 2nd line centre who will be a Selke nominee for years
This is why I love HF. Guy scores 40 and that's all you're "really getting". No biggy right.

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02-06-2013, 07:31 AM
  #82
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Horrible as usual. Blockbusters never work, at least in hfboards.

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02-06-2013, 07:50 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
This is why I love HF. Guy scores 40 and that's all you're "really getting". No biggy right.
on HF: Potential > Proven

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Old
02-06-2013, 07:51 AM
  #84
Bubba Thudd
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tangibles > one-dimensional

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02-06-2013, 07:53 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
tangibles > one-dimensional
Brooks Laich for Taylor Hall !!

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Old
02-06-2013, 08:21 AM
  #86
daveleaf
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I really don't see all the hype about O'Reily. Good player with strong defensive game with one good year yet his value is the moon. It's perceived value.

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Old
02-06-2013, 08:29 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahrougem2 View Post
Switch John-Michael Liles to one of Gardiner/Rielly and you may have a deal, but this is because I'm biased towards the Avs, especially O'Reilly. In my opinion, purely value wise:

O'Reilly = Kessel
Sgarbossa<Bozak (Simply because he's unproven, but I do love Sgarbossa)
Downie>Liles
1st>Nothing

So the Avs lose this deal
You funny.

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Old
02-06-2013, 08:51 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by bobg1 View Post
How is Downie worth a 1st round pick?
Cause that's what he got traded for last year? And he's only ingratiated himself to avs since then?

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02-06-2013, 08:53 AM
  #89
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Terrible deal, and even worse responses.


Leafs take it up the ass without lube if they do this.

O'Rielly is a nice player to have, but 55 points isn't anything special.

Stajan had a few 50+ point seasons when handed first line minutes, and he was good defensively, too!

You're trading a guy who you know can consistently put up 30 goals a season, and who has a 82 point season under his belt(and who's become a well-rounded player), for a guy who's passed 30 points once, hasn't hit 20 goals yet, and isn't playing right now- because he wants more money.

Kessel is easily the better player of the two, O'Rielly is a good defensive 2nd line center, while Kessel is a top line winger, and an elite goalscorer.



And then the rest of the deal... the only thing of value coming from Colorado is a 1st... which would be super-valuable if Colorado wasn't one win away from being in the playoffs.

After that you have a 'meh' prospect in scgarbossa(Please, somebody cite his overager numbers... please please please), and one of the biggest wastes of skin in the league, Downie(lets be generous and say he carries 0 value).

So what's Colorado giving up from their active roster?
Scgarbossa.

What's Colorado getting for their active roster?
Top line goalscoring/playmaking winger to play with Duchene
A good 3rd line centerman
a good top-4 d-man

wonder what the value of that pick is going to be with those upgrades?

Assuming ROR decides he wants to play for the Leafs, what do we get for our active roster?

A 2nd line center(have one already)
*maybe* Downie, assuming he isn't promptly waived.


For the future,
We get a 2nd line center, maybe a 1st line center in ROR
We get a prospect who may never do anything in Scgarbossa
We get Downie(yay)
We get a 1st that will probably be mid round... Decent talent to be had, but a 50/50 chance that you pick a player that makes the NHL.

We give up
A top line forward(only 3 years older than ROR, not a massive difference here)
A 3rd line center
A mentor for our up-and-coming PMDs


So, if we throw in a 3rd, will Colorado be nice enough to throw in some lube?

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02-06-2013, 08:59 AM
  #90
glucker
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
Cause that's what he got traded for last year? And he's only ingratiated himself to avs since then?
wow

Colorado got ripped off big time.

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Old
02-06-2013, 09:03 AM
  #91
bobbyflex
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Originally Posted by glucker View Post
wow

Colorado got ripped off big time.
hey dude, according to that guy's logic since we paid 2 first and 2nd for Kessel he is worth 4 firsts today!!!!!!1

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02-06-2013, 09:04 AM
  #92
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I would rather offer sheet him then give up Kessel, JML and Bozak. With ROR we would easily finish above .500 and a mid 1st, mid 2nd, and mid 3rd are worth far less than Kessel, Bozak and JML.

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02-06-2013, 09:08 AM
  #93
Bubba Thudd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glucker View Post
wow

Colorado got ripped off big time.
COL traded Quincey for Downie. Quincey was then traded to DET for a 1st (and minor league defenseman Sebastien Piche). COL didn't directly give a 1st for Downie.

TBL ended up getting a 1st for Downie, effectively.

COL and DET don't trade with each other.

If anything, DET got ripped off.


Last edited by Bubba Thudd: 02-06-2013 at 09:13 AM.
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02-06-2013, 09:11 AM
  #94
glucker
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Originally Posted by Hotlanta View Post
I would rather offer sheet him then give up Kessel, JML and Bozak. With ROR we would easily finish above .500 and a mid 1st, mid 2nd, and mid 3rd are worth far less than Kessel, Bozak and JML.
I'd rather keep our picks in this draft.

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Old
02-06-2013, 09:13 AM
  #95
glucker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
COL traded Quincey for Downie. Quincey was then traded to DET for a 1st. COL didn't directly give a 1st for Downie.

TBL ended up getting a 1st for Downie, effectively.

COL and DET don't trade with each other.

If anything, DET got ripped off.
That's even worse for Colorado.
Quincey>1st>>>>>>7th>>>>>>>Downie

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Old
02-06-2013, 09:13 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
COL traded Quincey for Downie. Quincey was then traded to DET for a 1st. COL didn't directly give a 1st for Downie.

TBL ended up getting a 1st for Downie, effectively.

COL and DET don't trade with each other.

If anything, DET got ripped off.
Lol Detroit got skullbanged in that trade. Have you seen the Quinc-pocalypse for them? I've heard multiple times that he's their worst defenseman

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Old
02-06-2013, 09:14 AM
  #97
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That's even worse for Colorado.
Quincey>1st>>>>>>7th>>>>>>>Downie
This is how I can tell you're trolling

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Old
02-06-2013, 09:14 AM
  #98
cgf
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Originally Posted by glucker View Post
wow

Colorado got ripped off big time.
Actually it's detroit who got ripped off. Avs got to dump Quincey in the trade so we made out like Bandits, the Lightening got a first for Downie, which is solid, and Detroit took it up the butt hard getting Quincey for their first round pick.

Still though Downie's totally worth a non-top 10 first. There aren't that many players that can pester opponents as well as him and still have the skills to play with a talented center. Adding him really took the Landy-Radar line to another level until he ****ed up his shoulder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glucker View Post
That's even worse for Colorado.
Quincey>1st>>>>>>7th>>>>>>>Downie
Now you're just trolling or purposefully saying something ignorant and untrue. Quincey is terrible while Downie's a good 2nd/3rd line tweener who was a great fit for our top line last year with Gabe and O'Reilly.

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Old
02-06-2013, 09:15 AM
  #99
Bubba Thudd
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Originally Posted by glucker View Post
That's even worse for Colorado.
Quincey>1st>>>>>>7th>>>>>>>Downie
Oh, I get it now. You're just a Downie hater, and can't recognize that he is a better asset than Quincey.

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Old
02-06-2013, 09:46 AM
  #100
Avs44
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Originally Posted by glucker View Post
That's even worse for Colorado.
Quincey>1st>>>>>>7th>>>>>>>Downie
You just announced yourself as a troll, or one of the most clueless people on HF boards. At least we can ignore you now. Oh, and go read some Wings GDT to see just how awesome Quincey is. If you think Downie is worth less than a 7th then you have issues.


Edit: just saw your comment about Sgarbossa Note to all other prospects in the NHL: if you're 20 years old, just put up 36 points in 38 games in the AHL, and made your NHL debut, you're now an overage prospect.


Last edited by Avs44: 02-06-2013 at 09:54 AM.
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