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Old
02-05-2013, 11:02 PM
  #626
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A very interesting stretch for all our first round picks in the next week and a half

CBJ vs CGY, EDM, SJ, LA,

LA vs NSH, Det, STL, CBJ, CHI

NYR vs NYI x2, Bos, TBL

LA and NYR have a pretty rough stretch that could push them to the fringes of playoff contention or bring them back into the thick of the race.

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02-06-2013, 01:39 AM
  #627
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3 top 15 picks....


Hey I can dream...

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02-06-2013, 06:36 AM
  #628
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Originally Posted by alphafox View Post
A very interesting stretch for all our first round picks in the next week and a half

CBJ vs CGY, EDM, SJ, LA,

LA vs NSH, Det, STL, CBJ, CHI

NYR vs NYI x2, Bos, TBL

LA and NYR have a pretty rough stretch that could push them to the fringes of playoff contention or bring them back into the thick of the race.
and calgary. edm, sj & la not so much

Nashville & Calgary turned into offensive powerhouses last night

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02-06-2013, 08:23 AM
  #629
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
and calgary. edm, sj & la not so much

Nashville & Calgary turned into offensive powerhouses last night
I honestly don't know what will be difficult games with this team.

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02-06-2013, 01:19 PM
  #630
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I honestly don't know what will be difficult games with this team.
That is true. its like Forrest Gump's box of chocolates.

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02-06-2013, 04:10 PM
  #631
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Well they may as well not even show up for this now

Quote:
2013 NHL draft lacks depth of talent
Quote:
Contrary to popular belief, the 2013 draft isn’t nearly as deep as scouts initially projected the past couple of seasons.
Quote:
So for teams really struggling through the first two weeks of play – are you listening fans of Calgary, Columbus, Phoenix, Florida and Washington (for now) – it means you have the highest odds of selecting a really high-end talent that can become a franchise cornerstone for 15-plus years. But for the 7/11 teams out there (those just missing the playoffs and destined to draft in the No. 10-14 slots), a mid-first round pick this year isn’t any more special than any other year.
http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...of-talent.html

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02-06-2013, 04:34 PM
  #632
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Ok im gonna listen to Button on this one, who just the other day on the draftcentre podcast stated that this draft was very reminiscent of 2003 and that down into the 20'smove guys have the potential to be solid first line players and team captains. Its the same story every year the closer we get to draft day the more shallow it is. This is a deep year for high ceiling players, now that may not translate into finding superstars in the sixth round but the first round has a deep top 15-20.

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02-06-2013, 05:06 PM
  #633
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Craig Button's answer in his recently chat to the question about why he has Rasmus Ristolainen so low says that it's a deep draft to him:

Quote:
Craig Button: First, I think this draft is deep. Second, there is a lot of emphasis on the number beside the player and I try to ensure that I have players in their proper grouping. For example, on my list I have a grouping of players that I see as quite similar in potential from 8 to 20 or so. Rasmus is in that group and if somebody said to me, 'he really should be 8 or 9 or 12, I would see that argument and not raise much of a fuss.
I can see scouts just being disappointed since there were such high expectations for this draft class. IMO, the problem is a lot of the players that were expected to push into the top 10 at the beginning of the season haven't done so and could maybe now be tabled as potential 3rd liners rather than surefire top 6 forwards - like Curtis Lazar, Alex Forsberg and Anthony Duclair.

McKenzie's pre-season top 10 included Lazar, Kerby Rychel, De La Rose and Burakowsky. Some of those players could fall to the 2nd round.

Expectations were very high for Swedes Jacob De La Rose, Andre Burakowsky and Robert Hägg going into the season and it looked like a potential 3-4 Swedes would go in the top 10 picks. While they've all done very well in U18 tournaments, none has set the world on fire playing mens hockey in Sweden. It doesn't mean they aren't good prospects, but they aren't phenoms.

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02-06-2013, 07:53 PM
  #634
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Originally Posted by alphafox View Post
Ok im gonna listen to Button on this one, who just the other day on the draftcentre podcast stated that this draft was very reminiscent of 2003 and that down into the 20'smove guys have the potential to be solid first line players and team captains. Its the same story every year the closer we get to draft day the more shallow it is. This is a deep year for high ceiling players, now that may not translate into finding superstars in the sixth round but the first round has a deep top 15-20.
You can find first line players throughout the early rounds in most drafts. But some of it is scouting and some of it is dumb luck.

If we're going to miss the playoffs, I hope the Kings and Rangers join us. The chance to do something special like the Canucks did in drafting the Sedins or the Ducks did with Perry and Getzlaf is something this franchise could use in a big way.

Of course, I'm hoping Scott Howson is nowhere near our drafting decisions. Let JD and Patrick control our drafting. This opportunity is too important to make another blunder.

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02-06-2013, 09:15 PM
  #635
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GM's everywhere have said the draft is deep, I'll go with them.

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02-06-2013, 10:07 PM
  #636
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
You can find first line players throughout the early rounds in most drafts. But some of it is scouting and some of it is dumb luck.

If we're going to miss the playoffs, I hope the Kings and Rangers join us. The chance to do something special like the Canucks did in drafting the Sedins or the Ducks did with Perry and Getzlaf is something this franchise could use in a big way.

Of course, I'm hoping Scott Howson is nowhere near our drafting decisions. Let JD and Patrick control our drafting. This opportunity is too important to make another blunder.
Let's take a look at Patrick's first-round record of drafting when he wasn't spoon-fed top-5 picks.

Colby Armstrong, Brooks Orpik, Konstantin Koltsov, Milan Kraft, Robert Dome, Craig Hillier, Alexei Morozov, Chris Wells, Stefan Bergqvist, Martin Straka, Markus Naslund. Straka and Naslund are the only two players who ever played at a level higher than "serviceable", and none of those others except Orpik even reached that level.

Want to look at the second round?

Carl Sneep, Michael Gergen, Johannes Salomonsson, Alex Goligoski, Ryan Stone, Ondrej Nemec, Noah Welch, Shane Endicott, Matt Murley, Jeremy Van Hoof, Brian Gaffaney, Alexander Zevakhin, Pavel Skrbek, Richard Park, Dominic Pittis, Marc Hussey, Rusty Fitzgerald.

Park (serviceable) and Goligoski (still unknown) are easily the two best players there. Outside of that, there's not even a single NHL-level depth player at any point. Park and Goligoski are the only two players to hit the 100 games played mark in their careers.

I have no idea how you can sit there with a straight face and talk about "JD's drafting". The Blues' best pick is Pietrangelo, who was a 4th overall pick in a top-heavy draft. Tarasenko is 9 games into his NHL career. Outside of that, it's the same situation as it is in Columbus...a lot of guys who are still prospects, and a small handful who no longer are. To make it sound as if the Blues' drafting is decisively better since 2007 since Columbus' is dishonest.

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02-08-2013, 06:14 PM
  #637
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Let's take a look at Patrick's first-round record of drafting when he wasn't spoon-fed top-5 picks.

Colby Armstrong, Brooks Orpik, Konstantin Koltsov, Milan Kraft, Robert Dome, Craig Hillier, Alexei Morozov, Chris Wells, Stefan Bergqvist, Martin Straka, Markus Naslund. Straka and Naslund are the only two players who ever played at a level higher than "serviceable", and none of those others except Orpik even reached that level.

Want to look at the second round?

Carl Sneep, Michael Gergen, Johannes Salomonsson, Alex Goligoski, Ryan Stone, Ondrej Nemec, Noah Welch, Shane Endicott, Matt Murley, Jeremy Van Hoof, Brian Gaffaney, Alexander Zevakhin, Pavel Skrbek, Richard Park, Dominic Pittis, Marc Hussey, Rusty Fitzgerald.

Park (serviceable) and Goligoski (still unknown) are easily the two best players there. Outside of that, there's not even a single NHL-level depth player at any point. Park and Goligoski are the only two players to hit the 100 games played mark in their careers.

I have no idea how you can sit there with a straight face and talk about "JD's drafting". The Blues' best pick is Pietrangelo, who was a 4th overall pick in a top-heavy draft. Tarasenko is 9 games into his NHL career. Outside of that, it's the same situation as it is in Columbus...a lot of guys who are still prospects, and a small handful who no longer are. To make it sound as if the Blues' drafting is decisively better since 2007 since Columbus' is dishonest.
People frequently put too much emphasis on the GMs and their drafting, when in reality it comes down to, mostly, the scouting staff and their work.

A stubborn scout will see right through the tunnel and say "it's this guy or nobody" ... if that's the case, then it's likely that every other player will be overlooked, regardless of good or bad, in favor of this player. The teams that are consistently finding quality draft picks at the table are the ones that adapt and pick from a specific set of requirements. What I like about the Jackets' scouting and drafting over the last 2-3 years (really, since after the draft that saw them select Nikita Filatov) is that they are drafting based on character as much as talent. A lot of those guys you mentioned Craig Patrick drafting above were failures because they were "home run" picks - guys that were either going to be superstar players or complete busts. Many of them weren't ready to work for it - I know the story behind Johannes Salmonsson, who at the time was considered the best prospect to come out of Sweden since the Sedins. He was frustrated by the WHL team that selected him in the Import Draft, even publicly stating that he was disappointed that he wouldn't be able to play for the Vancouver Giants - and when he came over, he played like a careless, spoiled jerk. After one year he went back to Sweden and floundered.

Attitude is everything in sports. Sidney Crosby wouldn't be a world class, superstar player, if he weren't willing to run nearly 20 miles a day as a teenager. Yes, there has to be skill, but in guys like Boone Jenner and Ryan Murray, you're getting guys that want to win and succeed. That comes down to the scouts doing their job in getting to actually know everything about a kid, rather than just what they've seen from up in the stands.

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02-08-2013, 10:23 PM
  #638
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So SL, as ou resident scout who is the guy you would tell a GM him or no one else for a pick at say 11 ( top 3 is just too mundane)

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02-09-2013, 12:21 AM
  #639
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So SL, as ou resident scout who is the guy you would tell a GM him or no one else for a pick at say 11 ( top 3 is just too mundane)
If you read what he just said, that would make him a bad scout. There is no him or no one else, because there is always someone else..

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02-10-2013, 05:10 PM
  #640
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So SL, as ou resident scout who is the guy you would tell a GM him or no one else for a pick at say 11 ( top 3 is just too mundane)
The only player in everyone's top-10 (or so) that makes me leery is Valeri Nichushkin. It has nothing to do with his skill or personality, and everything to do with the "Russian factor". After Nikita Filatov and Nikolai Zherdev, I don't think we can risk taking this type of player at that point in the draft. The money the KHL is offering these guys to stay over is ridiculous, and if it were me, with the option to make twice as much at 19 in the KHL - as I would at 25 in the NHL - I'm staying home every time.

The same doesn't apply to Nikita Zadorov, mainly because he's already playing in the OHL ... but, we don't really maintain a need for that type of player.

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02-10-2013, 05:10 PM
  #641
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On a separate note, we'll be releasing our mid-season top-60 in the next week or so. When it's done, I'll be sure to provide links and answer any questions/comments anyone has.

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02-10-2013, 05:15 PM
  #642
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
On a separate note, we'll be releasing our mid-season top-60 in the next week or so. When it's done, I'll be sure to provide links and answer any questions/comments anyone has.
Some reports have come out that this draft isn't as deep as everyone says it is, do you agree?

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02-10-2013, 08:52 PM
  #643
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
The only player in everyone's top-10 (or so) that makes me leery is Valeri Nichushkin. It has nothing to do with his skill or personality, and everything to do with the "Russian factor". After Nikita Filatov and Nikolai Zherdev, I don't think we can risk taking this type of player at that point in the draft. The money the KHL is offering these guys to stay over is ridiculous, and if it were me, with the option to make twice as much at 19 in the KHL - as I would at 25 in the NHL - I'm staying home every time.

The same doesn't apply to Nikita Zadorov, mainly because he's already playing in the OHL ... but, we don't really maintain a need for that type of player.
Thanks SL. Keep hearing so much about this draft and really start wondering about it.


Last edited by cslebn: 02-10-2013 at 08:52 PM. Reason: Edit: spelling
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02-11-2013, 12:53 AM
  #644
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Some reports have come out that this draft isn't as deep as everyone says it is, do you agree?
There are some guys that haven't performed as well as advertised, for various reasons. There are some that I have concerns/reservations about (Lazar, consistency); and there are others that I feel are falling as a result of their situations or simply being surpassed by guys that have just flat been better (Pulock, Theodore). However, I still think that there is some serious talent available, and with three first round picks, there's no reason that we shouldn't come away with three (or more, high second rounder) blue chippers. In fact, I would consider it a bit of fortune if we could come away with a guy like Ryan Pulock in the early teens ... and that's just one example. Shea Theodore's Seattle Thunderbirds lost 15 straight games and fell completely into oblivion after having a fairly successful early part of the season. His stock has plummeted to the point that a lot of people have him slated in the second round ... but, this is a very good player that would be an excellent piece for our team. Mike Green suffered a similar fate when his Saskatoon Blades were one of the worst teams in junior hockey history in his draft year ... while I wouldn't compare Shea Theodore to him, it's just one example of what can happen in that situation.

In essence, I still think this is one of the deeper drafts in recent memory. There is a lot of skill, a lot of character, and plenty of guys that have an abundance of both. It won't be 2003 all over again, but I think there will be 5-6 real good, superstar quality players coming out of this thing. Maybe more, plus plenty of guys who are top-6 forwards/top-4 defensemen.

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02-11-2013, 01:25 PM
  #645
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Hey SL, if you have the time I'd love to get your take on a few players I've been paying some attention to.

Obviously, most can agree that there are 3-6 players at the top of most draft boards, but I'm looking further down the list. I'm looking for players to take with the LA, NYR, and our 2nd round pick. With our 4 picks, I'd like to see us get (in no particular order) a C, a Power Forward, a BIG top pairing d-man, and a wild card offensive player.

Here are some players I have my eye on, what do you think-
Domi
Erne
Mantha
Gauthier
Rychel
Petan

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02-12-2013, 12:50 AM
  #646
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Originally Posted by Stretch Factor View Post
Hey SL, if you have the time I'd love to get your take on a few players I've been paying some attention to.

Obviously, most can agree that there are 3-6 players at the top of most draft boards, but I'm looking further down the list. I'm looking for players to take with the LA, NYR, and our 2nd round pick. With our 4 picks, I'd like to see us get (in no particular order) a C, a Power Forward, a BIG top pairing d-man, and a wild card offensive player.

Here are some players I have my eye on, what do you think-
Domi
Erne
Mantha
Gauthier
Rychel
Petan
All are solid prospects, and will go at various levels of the draft.

Max Domi is small, shifty, good, quick hands, second to none compete level. Hits, forechecks hard, goes to the difficult areas and works. Size is always a concern for a player of his style, a question that will plague him until he proves otherwise. Could be a Martin St. Louis type of player, with the right mix of nasty and skill. Also, he looks strikingly like his dad.

Adam Erne is a guy that piques my interest for this franchise. He's a quality player in every aspect, and could be very high on some teams' lists. Good size, good all around player ... could be a good second line forward in the NHL. Not a ton of risk with this guy either, should be an NHL player on some level.

Anthony Mantha is an attractive player because of his size. Good hands around the net, a natural goal scorer, and can play in all three zones. Plays the game like Corey Perry or (sue me) Rick Nash; though may not have the same ceiling. A hard guy to get a feel for, but 42 goals in 51 games so far is nothing to shake a stick at ... could go much higher than people are giving notice to.

Frederik Gauthier is another hulking power forward, but plays more of a two-way game than Mantha. I don't see the scoring potential here that a lot of other people mention, but he could be a decent prospect to play on a third line in the future. He's a +24 in 46 games, so the shutdown potential is certainly there. Maybe a Jordan Staal type of player as a high ceiling, but more than likely won't ever put up huge numbers.

Kerby Rychel is a (primarily) offensive minded winger that could be a boom or bust type of pick. Should be one of the last picks in the first round; a nice second line scoring prospect, similar to a guy the Blues have named Ty Rattie. Not a dominant forward, but with good talent around him, a potential 25/25 or maybe 30/30 forward, if developed properly.

Nic Petan is a guy that I've watched WAY too much over the last 2+ years . People around here love to hate the Portland Winterhawks, but Petan is a guy that any hockey fan has to love to watch. I wasn't expecting such a huge breakout year from him as a 17 year old, but there is no way you can turn away from a guy leading the WHL in scoring at such a young age. Diminutive, but shifty and hard to hit, and has good protection from the muscle throughout the Hawks lineup. When he has space, he's creative and doesn't make many mistakes. Gets pucks through when it seems like they shouldn't, and has a good shot that catches goalies off guard. Battles in traffic, goes to the right areas, and has a high compete level. Really, has been the surprise of the season for me in the WHL. Will remind a lot of people of Matt Calvert; but may have higher offensive potential. Might be able to get this guy as late as the third round.

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02-12-2013, 01:06 AM
  #647
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Max Domi is small, shifty, good, quick hands, second to none compete level. Hits, forechecks hard, goes to the difficult areas and works. Size is always a concern for a player of his style, a question that will plague him until he proves otherwise. Could be a Martin St. Louis type of player, with the right mix of nasty and skill. Also, he looks strikingly like his dad.


Supposedly perfect circles don't exist in nature, but Tie Domi's head proved otherwise. If he and Dennis Vial had butted heads, it would look like a Venn diagram.

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02-12-2013, 01:28 AM
  #648
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Supposedly perfect circles don't exist in nature, but Tie Domi's head proved otherwise. If he and Dennis Vial had butted heads, it would look like a Venn diagram.


Undoubtedly, the post of the evening.

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02-12-2013, 10:29 AM
  #649
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All are solid prospects, and will go at various levels of the draft.

Max Domi is small, shifty, good, quick hands, second to none compete level. Hits, forechecks hard, goes to the difficult areas and works. Size is always a concern for a player of his style, a question that will plague him until he proves otherwise. Could be a Martin St. Louis type of player, with the right mix of nasty and skill. Also, he looks strikingly like his dad.

Adam Erne is a guy that piques my interest for this franchise. He's a quality player in every aspect, and could be very high on some teams' lists. Good size, good all around player ... could be a good second line forward in the NHL. Not a ton of risk with this guy either, should be an NHL player on some level.

Anthony Mantha is an attractive player because of his size. Good hands around the net, a natural goal scorer, and can play in all three zones. Plays the game like Corey Perry or (sue me) Rick Nash; though may not have the same ceiling. A hard guy to get a feel for, but 42 goals in 51 games so far is nothing to shake a stick at ... could go much higher than people are giving notice to.

Frederik Gauthier is another hulking power forward, but plays more of a two-way game than Mantha. I don't see the scoring potential here that a lot of other people mention, but he could be a decent prospect to play on a third line in the future. He's a +24 in 46 games, so the shutdown potential is certainly there. Maybe a Jordan Staal type of player as a high ceiling, but more than likely won't ever put up huge numbers.

Kerby Rychel is a (primarily) offensive minded winger that could be a boom or bust type of pick. Should be one of the last picks in the first round; a nice second line scoring prospect, similar to a guy the Blues have named Ty Rattie. Not a dominant forward, but with good talent around him, a potential 25/25 or maybe 30/30 forward, if developed properly.

Nic Petan is a guy that I've watched WAY too much over the last 2+ years . People around here love to hate the Portland Winterhawks, but Petan is a guy that any hockey fan has to love to watch. I wasn't expecting such a huge breakout year from him as a 17 year old, but there is no way you can turn away from a guy leading the WHL in scoring at such a young age. Diminutive, but shifty and hard to hit, and has good protection from the muscle throughout the Hawks lineup. When he has space, he's creative and doesn't make many mistakes. Gets pucks through when it seems like they shouldn't, and has a good shot that catches goalies off guard. Battles in traffic, goes to the right areas, and has a high compete level. Really, has been the surprise of the season for me in the WHL. Will remind a lot of people of Matt Calvert; but may have higher offensive potential. Might be able to get this guy as late as the third round.
Thanks SL, I appreciate the well written response.

With four picks in the top 30ish, I'd like to see us take one gamble on a guy. Maybe Domi or Petan is that guy. Someone who has a high ceiling, but there's some risk. I'm hearing Domi is like his dad, but with more offensive skill. That's exactly the type of player I like for this team.

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02-12-2013, 12:13 PM
  #650
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At this point I really like Dom even though he is small he is sturdy and his offensive upside is pretty impressive. Right now I figure that we are heading for a top 5 pick (likely 5th overall), a pick between 8-14 (figure LA just misses the playoffs), and a rangers pick in the 20+ range.

If possible I'd like to move up to take Mackinnon, but the price would likely be too steep. We need size badly so a guy like Barkov or Monahan would be awesome to put alongside guys like Atkinson. If Domi is available he's got one of the highest ceilings outside of the top 2 on my list.

Both Erne and Mantha are solid players, but I'd prefer to take the risk on Mantha he has the potential to be a big time goal scorer. Erne fits better with the ethos that the team seems to be building, but his offensive ceiling puts me off a bit. (That being said I'd still be thrilled with Erne, a high floor as SL mentioned)

I also believe that we will be moving at least one defensemen for another first round pick, particularly given JD's past with the Blues rebuild, and the impressive performance of Moore, Erixon, Holden, and Goboulef.

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