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May 6 2007 (Official "Fire Ruff" thread)

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Old
02-05-2013, 11:50 PM
  #26
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Not Regier's fault.
Plenty of blame to go around, and most definitely some to Regier. And even worse, he has never been able to compensate for those losses.

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02-05-2013, 11:50 PM
  #27
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Wrong.

The other mainstay you fail to mention is Regier. May 6, 2007 was the last time the Sabres won a playoff series. July 1, 2007 was when Briere and Drury were ran out of town. No matter how desperately fans want to move on from it, those dates are not coincidence. The team has not been competitive since.

Regier got lucky with the rule changes and the development of some young players coming out of the lockout. He's mismanaged the team ever since. Regier is to blame. Not Ruff.
I'll say it again: Regier has put the team in the position we all wanted them to be in. Pipeline filled with Dmen (none of whom are tough, though, I know)...Offensive forwards with goalscoring talent (Armia, Grigs, Cat)...Centers (Grigs, Girgensons)... tougher guys to play against (Ott, Foligno).... a top line in VHP.

Now we need a coach to put it all together. It's quite obvious who's to blame at this point. Regier's poor transactions/rosters of the past have been well documented, but I think he has done exactly what I wanted our GM to do in terms of setting this team up to succeed down the road in 2,3, 4 years.

Gimme a coach who will ride the top line, especially Vanek, and play him 20+ mins/gm. Give me the coach who knows how to motivate his players with a combination of coddling and tough love. The coach who knows which of his guys need to be on the ice in whatever the situation calls for.

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02-05-2013, 11:54 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
I'll say it again: Regier has put the team in the position we all wanted them to be in. Pipeline filled with Dmen (none of whom are tough, though, I know)...Offensive forwards with goalscoring talent (Armia, Grigs, Cat)...Centers (Grigs, Girgensons)... tougher guys to play against (Ott, Foligno).... a top line in VHP.
Yep, it's his saving grace right now. Add in the thinking outside the box (drafting Europeans, trading prospects) and I'm ok with him right now.

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02-06-2013, 12:10 AM
  #29
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I don't disagree with the idea that Ruff should be replaced and we should try someone new. But what a completely disingenuous way to frame this.

The level of talent on the teams coming out of the lockout was far more than any team we've iced since. We lost our two best players and co-captains July 1st that same year and never went out to get replacements (ownership again). That was after losing key depth guys the summer before. That had a much bigger impact on the next few seasons and our lack of playoff success. You can't lose that much talent/depth, not replace it and then expect to have continued success.

The previous ownership group was penny-wise/pound foolish and absolutely gutted the teams we had coming out of the lockout with their contract policies. Their parting shot was letting the d-partner to our Rookie of the year dman leave in free agency over one year on his contract. Its completely ridiculous to assert that Ruff is THE reason we haven't won a playoff series since that date.


That said, this team needs a new voice in the room.
do you want a list of teams that haven't won a playoff series in the last 5 years? it's a pretty sad list.

Only 10 teams have failed to win a playoff series over the last 5 years, including the Sabres

Of those 10 abysmal franchises :
4 never made the playoffs (NYI, TOR, EDM, WIN/ATL
3 made the playoffs once (MIN, FLA, CLB)
2 made the playoffs twice (BUF, CAL
1 made the playoffs 3 times (OTT)

You know what 9 of these teams have in common? Coaching changes in the last 2-3 seasons.

Buffalo was far more talented a roster, over that time period, than all of those teams, aside from maybe Ottawa. Yet our failure is tolerated, regardless of owner.

Don't forget that Ruff choked a vezina season away in the first round, and blew a 3-2 series lead to a team that used 3 different goalies

No more excuses about the roster, the players, the ownership... that **** was acceptable in 2008. Now we get to look back on the last half decade plus... and see the big picture.

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02-06-2013, 12:12 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I don't disagree with replacing Ruff. But what a completely disingenuous way to frame this.

The level of talent on the teams coming out of the lockout was far more than any team we've iced since. We lost our two best players and co-captains July 1st that same year and never went out to get replacements (ownership again). That was after losing key depth guys the summer before. That had a much bigger impact on the next few seasons and our lack of playoff success. You can't lose that much talent/depth, not replace it and then expect to have continued success.

The previous ownership group was penny-wise/pound foolish and absolutely gutted the teams we had coming out of the lockout with their contract policies. Their parting shot was letting the d-partner to our Rookie of the year dman leave in free agency over one year on his contract. Its completely ridiculous to assert that Ruff is THE reason we haven't won a playoff series since that date.
While the ownership situation was certainly different on that fateful July 1st, blaming the loss of BOTH captains on "ownership" is BS and revisionist history.

Regier had the green light to sign one of them, and he put his eggs in the wrong basket.

History clearly shows he should have retained Danny over Drury, but he tried to keep Drury instead. Chris didn't want to stay here and wanted to go play for his Rangers. Whereas Danny is a family man and loved Buffalo and would have stayed here with the right offer.

We didn't need to lose both our captains, but we did, due to Regier's mismanagement of the situation.

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02-06-2013, 12:15 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Takeo View Post
Wrong.

The other mainstay you fail to mention is Regier. May 6, 2007 was the last time the Sabres won a playoff series. July 1, 2007 was when Briere and Drury were ran out of town. No matter how desperately fans want to move on from it, those dates are not coincidence. The team has not been competitive since.

Regier got lucky with the rule changes and the development of some young players coming out of the lockout. He's mismanaged the team ever since. Regier is to blame. Not Ruff.
conjecture

when you look at the roster over the last 5 years, and compare it to the other failure franchises, it's clear that Ruff is to blame.

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02-06-2013, 12:21 AM
  #32
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What was particularly disturbing in Ruff's PC tonight was the way in which he threw Enroth under the bus to atone for the team's many sins.

Of course Enroth was horrible, but it was shocking to hear the HC point directly to him and say "well we need better goaltending".

Some of his other comments were flat out BS. If he is 1/10 as hockey savvy as his supporters suggest, his comments had to be BS. He has done this before after bad losses in his PCs.

He says things he clearly knows are not true, or at least which do not point to the critical problems at hand.

The man is desperate in my opinion to retain his job and is now speaking disingenuously on a fairly consistent basis.

Prayer: the last refuge of a scoundrel. Soon we will be hearing some of that from him too no doubt.

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02-06-2013, 12:23 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Royisgone View Post
What was particularly disturbing in Ruff's PC tonight was the way in which he threw Enroth under the bus to atone for the team's many sins.

Of course Enroth was horrible, but it was shocking to hear the HC point directly to him and say "well we need better goaltending".

Some of his other comments were flat out BS. If he is 1/10 as hockey savvy as his supporters suggest, his comments had to be BS. He has done this before after bad losses in his PCs.

He says things he clearly knows are not true, or at least which do not point to the critical problems at hand.

The man is desperate in my opinion to retain his job and is now speaking disingenuously on a fairly consistent basis.

Prayer: the last refuge of a scoundrel. Soon we will be hearing some of that from him too no doubt.
His quote was "we need better goaltending"??

What else did he say, anything noteworthy?? I'll listen in a bit.

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02-06-2013, 12:24 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
conjecture

when you look at the roster over the last 5 years, and compare it to the other failure franchises, it's clear that Ruff is to blame.
I think most of us on here are in agreement that Ruff's time is up.

Regier seems to be more debatable.

Having said that, since that great 2006 team, our talent level and overall team makeup has not been nearly as good as a lot of people on here seem to think.

Sabres fans chronically overestimate the value/quality of Sabre players.

This crap has been going on forever.

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02-06-2013, 12:24 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
His quote was "we need better goaltending"??

What else did he say, anything noteworthy?? I'll listen in a bit.
we need better coaching

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02-06-2013, 12:29 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
His quote was "we need better goaltending"??

What else did he say, anything noteworthy?? I'll listen in a bit.
"We battle hard; no quit; pretty tight game; we got down but we answered"

"Well, we need better goaltending, there's no secret to that. Our goalie would admit he's gotta have a couple of those. He's gotta bounce back."

Ruff is disingenuously painting a picture of an evenly played, hardly fought game that may have gone differently had we gotten sound goaltending.

I disagree 100% with that assessment. That is not the game I saw. I saw a lackluster effort (as usual) from a disinterested group, and the outcome of the game was almost never in question. We all knew Ottawa would win, even if we eventually did come within a goal of them.

The guy is just outwardly full of #$*& now.

I just hope Pegula understands this.

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02-06-2013, 12:31 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Royisgone View Post
"We battle hard; no quit; pretty tight game; we got down but we answered"

"Well, we need better goaltending, there's no secret to that. Our goalie would admit he's gotta have a couple of those. He's gotta bounce back."

Ruff is disingenuously painting a picture of an evenly played, hardly fought game that may have gone differently had we gotten sound goaltending.

I disagree 100% with that assessment. That is not the game I saw. I saw a lackluster effort (as usual) from a disinterested group, and the outcome of the game was almost never in question. We all knew Ottawa would win, even if we eventually did come within a goal of them.

The guy is just outwardly full of #$*& now.

I just hope Pegula understands this.
agreed...
what a load of crap, what a spinmaster

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02-06-2013, 12:32 AM
  #38
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Look what you did, you little jerk.

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02-06-2013, 12:39 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Royisgone View Post
"We battle hard; no quit; pretty tight game; we got down but we answered"

"Well, we need better goaltending, there's no secret to that. Our goalie would admit he's gotta have a couple of those. He's gotta bounce back."

Ruff is disingenuously painting a picture of an evenly played, hardly fought game that may have gone differently had we gotten sound goaltending.

I disagree 100% with that assessment. That is not the game I saw. I saw a lackluster effort (as usual) from a disinterested group, and the outcome of the game was almost never in question. We all knew Ottawa would win, even if we eventually did come within a goal of them.

The guy is just outwardly full of #$*& now.

I just hope Pegula understands this.
Wow. Any Australian with no grasp of hockey sense could watch the game tonight and see a team that was effortless and disinterested - likely due in large part to the fact that they don't like the coach. He leans in to talk in a player's ear on the bench and they immediately turn him off.


That's bad that he could try to justify a game like this. That's Ruph being defeated. He never would've taken that approach three years ago.

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02-06-2013, 12:39 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Royisgone View Post
"We battle hard; no quit; pretty tight game; we got down but we answered"

"Well, we need better goaltending, there's no secret to that. Our goalie would admit he's gotta have a couple of those. He's gotta bounce back."

Ruff is disingenuously painting a picture of an evenly played, hardly fought game that may have gone differently had we gotten sound goaltending.

I disagree 100% with that assessment. That is not the game I saw. I saw a lackluster effort (as usual) from a disinterested group, and the outcome of the game was almost never in question. We all knew Ottawa would win, even if we eventually did come within a goal of them.

The guy is just outwardly full of #$*& now.

I just hope Pegula understands this.
I've played goaltender my whole life and I can tell you, the worst feeling is when the defense - or 80% of the team in this case - ***** the bed and the coach blames it on net. That's a great way to zap every ounce of confidence from a goalie and make him not give a ****. Some fault does fall on the goalie, but losing 7 out of ten? Come on Lindy...

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02-06-2013, 12:51 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by studebaker1 View Post
I've played goaltender my whole life and I can tell you, the worst feeling is when the defense - or 80% of the team in this case - ***** the bed and the coach blames it on net. That's a great way to zap every ounce of confidence from a goalie and make him not give a ****. Some fault does fall on the goalie, but losing 7 out of ten? Come on Lindy...
I played hockey when I was younger, but never goal.

And yet I am 100% sure what you are saying is dead on. It only makes sense.

His comments pointing straight at poor goofy little Enroth are not appropriate for a head coach.

He should be delivering the old "we win and lose as a team" line, as that is more fitting of a leader and it is just the right thing for someone in his position to say...even if the goal tending was pretty god awful.

As Jbuds said, it suggests a man defeated.

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02-06-2013, 01:02 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Royisgone View Post
I played hockey when I was younger, but never goal.

And yet I am 100% sure what you are saying is dead on. It only makes sense.

His comments pointing straight at poor goofy little Enroth are not appropriate for a head coach.

He should be delivering the old "we win and lose as a team" line, as that is more fitting of a leader and it is just the right thing for someone in his position to say...even if the goal tending was pretty god awful.

As Jbuds said, it suggests a man defeated.
I was a defenseman my entire life, and from that perspective, I can tell you that the coach blaming the goaltender and the goaltender alone is the sign of a man who has no finger on the pulse of his squad (after a game like this, in which nobody really showed up).

Because of the helpless feeling you get as a dman when you know that any half-decent shot on goal is going in, you're playing from a position of weakness right off the bat. This is in no way trying to diminish the negative play of the defense; rather, an attempt at showing just how awry our situation is.

He's lost. I just listened, and he's wreaking of a man who knows his time is coming to an end. PGPC's like this are abominable, and wouldn't have happened under his tenure a few years ago. He'd - as you alluded to - give the truthful statement of "the team performance was not good enough" after a game like this. You can't point to one single reason on-ice as the reason we lost. The team looked disinterested and lazy, from the goalie on out.

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02-06-2013, 01:06 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by studebaker1 View Post
I've played goaltender my whole life and I can tell you, the worst feeling is when the defense - or 80% of the team in this case - ***** the bed and the coach blames it on net. That's a great way to zap every ounce of confidence from a goalie and make him not give a ****. Some fault does fall on the goalie, but losing 7 out of ten? Come on Lindy...
It's classic Lindy, when he feels his back may be against the wall he decides to call out players to save face. The players were fed up with it last season, Roy was more open about it since he knew he was likely leaving. Paul Hamilton also mentioned that players told him behind closed doors that he gives Vanek a lot more flak than other players and in general don't like how Ruff handles the media.

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02-06-2013, 01:33 AM
  #44
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I was a defenseman my entire life, and from that perspective, I can tell you that the coach blaming the goaltender and the goaltender alone is the sign of a man who has no finger on the pulse of his squad (after a game like this, in which nobody really showed up).

Because of the helpless feeling you get as a dman when you know that any half-decent shot on goal is going in, you're playing from a position of weakness right off the bat. This is in no way trying to diminish the negative play of the defense; rather, an attempt at showing just how awry our situation is.

He's lost. I just listened, and he's wreaking of a man who knows his time is coming to an end. PGPC's like this are abominable, and wouldn't have happened under his tenure a few years ago. He'd - as you alluded to - give the truthful statement of "the team performance was not good enough" after a game like this. You can't point to one single reason on-ice as the reason we lost. The team looked disinterested and lazy, from the goalie on out.
I agree with the bolded text. So if our take on this is accurate, that's pretty interesting.

We can't know the situation on the inside over there, or what Pegula and his handlers are thinking. But we can at least try to read Ruff. If Ruff seems worried for his job, it suggests his job may be in more jeopardy than most here would guess.

Ruff should know the vibe on the inside...and he's fearing for his job.

That may tell us all we need to know about what the top brass is thinking these days.

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02-06-2013, 01:47 AM
  #45
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I agree with the bolded text. So if our take on this is accurate, that's pretty interesting.

We can't know the situation on the inside over there, or what Pegula and his handlers are thinking. But we can at least try to read Ruff. If Ruff seems worried for his job, it suggests his job may be in more jeopardy than most here would guess.

Ruff should know the vibe on the inside...and he's fearing for his job.

That may tell us all we need to know about what the top brass is thinking these days.
We can certainly hope...

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02-06-2013, 05:16 AM
  #46
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May 6 2007 was the last time the Sabres won a playoff series... that was 2102 days ago...

Only 4 players from the team that missed the playoffs in 2008 remain (Miller, Vanek, Pommer, Hecht). The roster has been almost completely turned over in the last 5 years.

They made changes all the way at the top and all the way down to the players and assistant coaches.

The problem is behind the bench and we ALL know it now. Even if we disagree on how long it's been a problem, we know it's the problem now.

Lets get some signs up in the FN Arena.

So...grind your axe...the roster turned over to what?...When you get that coach...whatever.

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02-06-2013, 08:27 AM
  #47
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The only real glimmer of hope for the current situation is that Darcy was extended for a job-above-averagely done since Pegula came to town, knowing full well that if Ruff didn't succeed this year, he'd be gone.

We can argue about the bar of success for a team in a transition (playoff berth, winning around, not playing like a gong show...), but the fact that Darcy got another contract without Ruff getting the same gives me some small hope that DR is ready to move on, if appropriate.

The defense is garbage, so they're not buying in. It's almost like Vanek is producing just to spite him. There hardly seems to be any interaction between Ruff and the players during the game. A fresh guy in the room might get the team believing in itself again, and make them at least half-watchable.

Date to circle: Friday. If Boston gets revenge and embarrasses us on home ice Friday, Ruff will be gone by the end of the season.

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02-06-2013, 08:39 AM
  #48
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Seriously just chant Fire Ruff every ****ing game until the guy is fired. I would love to see how long management will wait if the crowd is ****ing cheering it every single game.
Don't think it will happen. If you were at the season opener and you heard the cheer for lindy when he came out you'd realize that not many fans want him gone. WAY louder than any player.

We're still in the minority.

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02-06-2013, 08:57 AM
  #49
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Don't think it will happen. If you were at the season opener and you heard the cheer for lindy when he came out you'd realize that not many fans want him gone. WAY louder than any player.

We're still in the minority.
A few more straight losses and that will change drastically, trust me...

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02-06-2013, 09:10 AM
  #50
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Not Regier's fault.
Uhhhh, Regier definitely had something to do with it. After Briere went to arbitration and was awarded a 1 year, 5 million deal... he offered to re-sign during that season for another 5 years, 25 Million. Maybe the organization felt slighted that Danny would go the arbitraitor route, but Darcy should have been able to make the case @ 5 mil per season... Briere was a good deal.

Briere was happy in Buffalo and was willing to sign for a discount (over what he got in Philly). For that reason alone, Regier should have been fired - even if it was his failure to get management to understand what was in the best interest of the franchise.

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