HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Fantasy Hockey Talk > All Time Draft
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
All Time Draft Fantasy league where players of the past and present meet.

ATD 2013 - Draft Thread III

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-06-2013, 06:36 AM
  #51
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,236
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reds4Life View Post
How is Lemaire out of position? He is gonna play C.
He isn't.

BenchBrawl is offline  
Old
02-06-2013, 06:41 AM
  #52
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,236
vCash: 50
Montreal select Jimmy Thomson , D




Thomson's AST voting record:

1947-48: 5th (Cup)
1948-49: 6th (Cup)
1949-50: 6th
1950-51: 3rd (Cup)
1951-52: 4th
1952-53: not top-4 (but played in all-star game as non-Cup winner / so 5th to 8th)
1953-54: 6th


Last edited by BenchBrawl: 02-06-2013 at 09:54 AM.
BenchBrawl is offline  
Old
02-06-2013, 06:57 AM
  #53
Rob Scuderi
Registered User
 
Rob Scuderi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 2,696
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jafar View Post
Montreal select Jimmy Thomson , D




Thomson's AST voting record:

1947-48: 5th (Cup)
1948-49: 6th (Cup)
1949-50: 6th
1950-51: 3rd (Cup)
1951-52: 4th
1952-53: not top-4 (but played in all-star game as non-Cup winner / so 5th to 8th)
1953-54: 6th
You're a bad person. I'll PM you all the good articles I found waiting to post about him later today.

Rob Scuderi is offline  
Old
02-06-2013, 07:16 AM
  #54
BubbaBoot
Registered User
 
BubbaBoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mission Hill
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 10,989
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
Looking at the current Blues' roster, many of the wings were drafted/played as centers.
The Bruins 2011 Cup year have 10 forwards listed as CTRs, (drafted from JRs and minors) and this how they lined up that season:

Claude Julian likes interchangeable parts, often putting 2 CTRs on the ice for key faceoffs, especially late in the game, even if a former CTR is playing a regular wing slot.


Last edited by BubbaBoot: 02-06-2013 at 07:40 AM. Reason: Undrafted players, took line combos out.
BubbaBoot is offline  
Old
02-06-2013, 08:03 AM
  #55
DoMakc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 938
vCash: 500
HC Donbass selects Carl Henrik Zetterberg, C

DoMakc is offline  
Old
02-06-2013, 08:08 AM
  #56
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
 
Nalyd Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: No Bandwagon
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,770
vCash: 500
The Minnesota Fighting Saints select, from Perth, Ontario, Canada, Billy Smith, G

__________________
Every post comes with the Nalyd Psycho Seal of Approval.
Nalyd Psycho is offline  
Old
02-06-2013, 08:13 AM
  #57
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
 
Nalyd Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: No Bandwagon
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,770
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
The only reservation I have about Martin St. Louis at this point is that I think his two-way game is getting overrated in the ATD. Other than the Hart season in which he finished 4th in the voting, he has never gotten more than token Selke support. I view St. Louis as a reliable, up-and-down the wing checker, not a defensive dynamo. That being said, he was on my list of top-5 forwards available at this pick.
That token support often has him as one of the top 3 defensive rws in the league. As weird as it is, he's one of the better two-way players at a position that is not known for two-way play. Compared to centres, for sure he's not a great two way player, compared to right wings though...

Nalyd Psycho is offline  
Old
02-06-2013, 08:19 AM
  #58
MadArcand
We do not sow
 
MadArcand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pyke
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 4,573
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoMakc View Post
HC Donbass selects Carl Henrik Zetterberg, C
Bah!

So close yet so far (my hope was for Hull - Fedorov - St.Louis & Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Bure).

MadArcand is offline  
Old
02-06-2013, 08:23 AM
  #59
BubbaBoot
Registered User
 
BubbaBoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mission Hill
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 10,989
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
Bah!

So close yet so far (my hope was for Hull - Fedorov - St.Louis & Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Bure).
Also considered Zetterberg because he also is listed as a LWer. Liked the flexibility.

BubbaBoot is offline  
Old
02-06-2013, 09:24 AM
  #60
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,915
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
I believe Barry skated at LW briefly as a young player in Boston because the Bruins had Stewart at C at that point. Yet another case in point as to why Stewart should not play the wing. Twice in his career, with Barry in Boston and Smith in Montreal, his coaches chose to convert other centers to the wing rather than move Nels. There was evidently some experiment in Montreal with Stewart playing LW, but he ultimately moved back to center. Surely, there is a reason for that.
Nels Stewart was better than Marty Barry, and as I've said multiple times before, coaches tend to put their best players at center.

It doesn't matter if Stewart is better at center or wing. The team needs a good center more, so that's where he plays. That's why Hooley Smith moved into the middle on a more regular basis when Stewart left - he was the next best player. That's why the Leafs wanted Phil Kessel to move into the middle.

In regards to Nels Stewart, you seem to keep ignoring the fact that he did play quite a bit of LW in the NHL. In fact, he was named to an unofficial all-star team in 1929 as the top LW. Maybe that has something to do with your crusade to get Hooley Smith selected as a C instead of a RW. The S Line was not really, but a set unit, but a rotating one. All three of the guys spent significant time at center, wing, and even defense (Siebert wasn't center much). That's a big reason that the players on that line didn't often get significant all-star votes.

Dreakmur is offline  
Old
02-06-2013, 09:32 AM
  #61
BraveCanadian
Registered User
 
BraveCanadian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,807
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
In regards to Nels Stewart, you seem to keep ignoring the fact that he did play quite a bit of LW in the NHL. In fact, he was named to an unofficial all-star team in 1929 as the top LW. Maybe that has something to do with your crusade to get Hooley Smith selected as a C instead of a RW. The S Line was not really, but a set unit, but a rotating one. All three of the guys spent significant time at center, wing, and even defense (Siebert wasn't center much). That's a big reason that the players on that line didn't often get significant all-star votes.
Yeah based on the information in your bio it seems like they all shifted around as needed to fill in for injuries etc.

Stewart was playing LW/C & defense too.

BraveCanadian is offline  
Old
02-06-2013, 09:38 AM
  #62
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,236
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
You're a bad person. I'll PM you all the good articles I found waiting to post about him later today.
thanks for all the links in pm , I'll post the infos today or tomorrow , probably in a bio.

Thomson was definitely an elite defensive defenseman.

He was also a n1 D on 3 cup winners and that's a rare thing at this point.

His AST records also indicate that he was consistant even outside of his 2nd AST years.


Last edited by BenchBrawl: 02-06-2013 at 09:58 AM.
BenchBrawl is offline  
Old
02-06-2013, 09:59 AM
  #63
BubbaBoot
Registered User
 
BubbaBoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mission Hill
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 10,989
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jafar View Post
thanks for all the links in pm , I'll post the infos today or tomorrow , probably in a bio.

Thomson was definitely an elite defensive defenseman and he'll be a force on my 2nd pairing.

He was also a n1 D on 3 cup winners and that's a rare thing at this point.

His AST records also indicate that he was consistant even outside of his 2nd AST years.
I just discovered him recently when researching and the more I read about him the more I liked. I was kind of hoping to get him within my next two picks....oh well....

BubbaBoot is offline  
Old
02-06-2013, 10:17 AM
  #64
vecens24
Registered User
 
vecens24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 5,002
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaBoot View Post
I just discovered him recently when researching and the more I read about him the more I liked. I was kind of hoping to get him within my next two picks....oh well....
Yeah, Thomson is a pretty solid guy to get here. Not spectacular value or anything, but certainly a guy who can be a solid defensive guy for a more adventurous partner.

vecens24 is offline  
Old
02-06-2013, 10:41 AM
  #65
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,915
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Yeah, Thomson is a pretty solid guy to get here. Not spectacular value or anything, but certainly a guy who can be a solid defensive guy for a more adventurous partner.
And Thomson himself was quite a good puck-mover.

Dreakmur is offline  
Old
02-06-2013, 10:56 AM
  #66
Sturminator
I voted for Kodos
 
Sturminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: West Egg, New York
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 7,386
vCash: 500
When I did the analysis of all-star team voting for defensemen last year, Thomson is one of the players who stuck out as having been somewhat underrated in the ATD, primarily because he had a whole bunch of finishes just outside of the top-4. Jafar posted his AST voting results earlier, and if you take his appearance in the all-star game (not playing for the Cup winner) as about a 6th place finish (we have no data beyond the top-4 in voting for this season, but about 6th place seems fair), then Thomson's record of consistency over his seven year peak is very impressive. He ends up with two 2nd team AST selections, and five 3rd team placements, all in seven consecutive seasons.

Combine that with the fact that he was a #1 defenseman (going by AST voting finishes, at least) for three Cup winners in Toronto, and I think that Thomson is as good as any defenseman taken since Coulter/Reardon. His peak isn't quite as high as some guys', but seven consecutive seasons of being no worse than the sixth best defenseman in the league is pretty special. But then, I value consistency pretty highly. Other GMs may not care so much.

Sturminator is offline  
Old
02-06-2013, 11:05 AM
  #67
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,236
vCash: 50
Here are Thomson's scoring placements for defensemen from EagleBelfour's bio:

Top-10 Scoring among defenseman (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 5th, 6th)
Top-10 Goalscoring among defenseman (7th, 10th)
Top-10 Assist among defenseman (1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 5th, 8th, 10th)
Top-10 Penalty Minutes among defenseman (3rd, 4th, 5th, 7th, 8th, 8th, 10th)

Top-10 Playoff scoring among defenseman (1st, 4th, 6th, 6th, 7th, 9th)
Top-10 Playoff goalscoring among defenseman (2nd, 4th)
Top-10 Playoff assist among defenseman (1st, 3rd, 5th, 5th, 6th)
Top-10 Playoff penalty minutes among defenseman (1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th)
*In a ERA with Red Kelly, Doug Harvey and Bill Gadsby as direct competition*

So even though Thomson was definitely not a good goal scorer , he actually brought quite a bit of offense to the table.That mixed with his defensive eliteness you have a pretty good all-around defenseman.His points finishes mixed with his lack of goals suggest he had an excellant first pass and was very good at transition.

BenchBrawl is offline  
Old
02-06-2013, 11:12 AM
  #68
EagleBelfour
Registered User
 
EagleBelfour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,233
vCash: 873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
When I did the analysis of all-star team voting for defensemen last year, Thomson is one of the players who stuck out as having been somewhat underrated in the ATD, primarily because he had a whole bunch of finishes just outside of the top-4. Jafar posted his AST voting results earlier, and if you take his appearance in the all-star game (not playing for the Cup winner) as about a 6th place finish (we have no data beyond the top-4 in voting for this season, but about 6th place seems fair), then Thomson's record of consistency over his seven year peak is very impressive. He ends up with two 2nd team AST selections, and five 3rd team placements, all in seven consecutive seasons.

Combine that with the fact that he was a #1 defenseman (going by AST voting finishes, at least) for three Cup winners in Toronto, and I think that Thomson is as good as any defenseman taken since Coulter/Reardon. His peak isn't quite as high as some guys', but seven consecutive seasons of being no worse than the sixth best defenseman in the league is pretty special. But then, I value consistency pretty highly. Other GMs may not care so much.
I pretty much agree with all of this. Jimmy Thomson is a superb defensive defenceman, physical, very good on the transition, three time SC champion as a #1 defenceman with excellent longevity. We say defensive defenceman, because he was not a guy that venture much offensively, but he was still racking up points and helping his team offensively. Look at his point total among defenceman:

Top-10 Scoring among defenseman (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 5th, 6th)
Top-10 Goalscoring among defenseman (7th, 10th)
Top-10 Assist among defenseman (1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 5th, 8th, 10th)
Top-10 Penalty Minutes among defenseman (3rd, 4th, 5th, 7th, 8th, 8th, 10th)

And those are results with Doug Harvey, Red Kelly & Bill Gadsby playing in the league. I owned Thomson a few times in those ATD, he's a superb player to have on your team. Not out of place as a #2, but an elite #3. I was extremely surprise that Thomson was not even up for discussion in the HoH discussion thread (I didn't participate, but read all of it). He would easily find a slot in the 50's on my list.

Reen, feel free to take my biography of Thomson and pile up more information on top! Two excellent, excellent selection in a row.

EagleBelfour is offline  
Old
02-06-2013, 11:20 AM
  #69
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,236
vCash: 50
(Thanks to Bring Back Scuderi for this link (more to come in bio))

Quote:
Pink-cheeked Jimmy Thomson from winnipeg , ranks in the books of his boss Conny Smythe , as just about the best defensive defenceman Toronto Maple Leafs ever had.
Smythe:
Quote:
Thomson's record of goals-against is the best of any defenceman we have ever had.He combines the qualities of a lot of good defencemen we've had.He has many of the attributes of XXX; he can hurt attackers - although not so seriously- as XXXXXX; he can get that puck out of his own end like Clancy-not in as dashing a way but just as decisively.He'll be one of the all-time greats of hockey if ke heeps his head and continues to give his best.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...key+star&hl=en

BenchBrawl is offline  
Old
02-06-2013, 11:21 AM
  #70
Darth Yoda
Registered User
 
Darth Yoda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grovebranch's Crease
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,843
vCash: 593
Aint got nothing on Vladimir Petrov though. I'm off to my fathers place, go on making your picks.


Last edited by Darth Yoda: 02-06-2013 at 11:26 AM.
Darth Yoda is online now  
Old
02-06-2013, 11:33 AM
  #71
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,236
vCash: 50
When I'm a couple of bios late I feel like way back in school when I always waited at the last moment to do my homework

BenchBrawl is offline  
Old
02-06-2013, 11:40 AM
  #72
bluesfan94
#BackesforSelke
 
bluesfan94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: St. Louis
Country: United States
Posts: 8,051
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jafar View Post
When I'm a couple of bios late I feel like way back in school when I always waited at the last moment to do my homework
See my problem is that I do bios instead of doing my homework.

bluesfan94 is offline  
Old
02-06-2013, 11:52 AM
  #73
Sturminator
I voted for Kodos
 
Sturminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: West Egg, New York
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 7,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
In regards to Nels Stewart, you seem to keep ignoring the fact that he did play quite a bit of LW in the NHL. In fact, he was named to an unofficial all-star team in 1929 as the top LW. Maybe that has something to do with your crusade to get Hooley Smith selected as a C instead of a RW. The S Line was not really, but a set unit, but a rotating one. All three of the guys spent significant time at center, wing, and even defense (Siebert wasn't center much). That's a big reason that the players on that line didn't often get significant all-star votes.
"Crusade" is ridiculous word to use here, Dreak. If you view my arguments about player position as a crusade, then I see no reason to waste more of my time trying to have a civil or rational discussion with you.

Sturminator is offline  
Old
02-06-2013, 11:52 AM
  #74
EagleBelfour
Registered User
 
EagleBelfour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,233
vCash: 873
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
See my problem is that I do bios instead of doing my homework.
When I was at school I was indeed making ATD Bios before my homework. I understand the feeling

EagleBelfour is offline  
Old
02-06-2013, 11:55 AM
  #75
Sturminator
I voted for Kodos
 
Sturminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: West Egg, New York
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 7,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
That token support often has him as one of the top 3 defensive rws in the league. As weird as it is, he's one of the better two-way players at a position that is not known for two-way play. Compared to centres, for sure he's not a great two way player, compared to right wings though...
That is true. Wingers have much less of a defensive impact than centers, so it's hard for them to compete in Selke voting.

Sturminator is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:45 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.