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Should Koivu Be Stripped of the Captaincy or Traded?

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02-05-2013, 04:48 PM
  #1
mnwild
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Should Koivu Be Stripped of the Captaincy or Traded?

move koivu and heatley for something. yeah i said it. we all love koivu, i have his jersey. but lets face it. this team has been mediocre at best with him as captain. move those 2 out. bump zach up to C: profit

i understand this post will hurt feelings

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02-05-2013, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mnwild View Post
move koivu and heatley for something. yeah i said it. we all love koivu, i have his jersey. but lets face it. this team has been mediocre at best with him as captain. move those 2 out. bump zach up to C: profit

i understand this post will hurt feelings
Yes it is Koivu's fault he was on a line with Bruno and Mittens. Damn him he should've lead us to the cup with that team.

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02-05-2013, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by tomgilbertfan View Post
Yes it is Koivu's fault he was on a line with Bruno and Mittens. Damn him he should've lead us to the cup with that team.
hes not exactly standing out anymore as a captain like he used to is all im saying. havent been a fan of heaters play this season at all though

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02-05-2013, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mnwild View Post
move koivu and heatley for something. yeah i said it. we all love koivu, i have his jersey. but lets face it. this team has been mediocre at best with him as captain. move those 2 out. bump zach up to C: profit

i understand this post will hurt feelings
Yeah, look at all those cups Minnesota won when he wasn't captain! There are so many of them I can't even count.

As for whether Yeo should be fired: Not yet at least. He should be allowed to finish the season before having his position re-assessed. If there are still no signs of long-term improvement and the team misses the playoffs, I think firing him will be the only choice.

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02-05-2013, 05:05 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnIaqAsnSxU

It would be nice to see some of this passion behind the bench.


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02-05-2013, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by mnwild View Post
move koivu and heatley for something. yeah i said it. we all love koivu, i have his jersey. but lets face it. this team has been mediocre at best with him as captain. move those 2 out. bump zach up to C: profit

i understand this post will hurt feelings
Oh yeah. It's not the team as a whole or the coaches. It's the Captain! Tell ya what, no way in hell would a change in captain suddenly make the defense look better, help Brodz get off his arse, turn Granlund into a confident centerman, stop Heatley from passing the puck to the opponent, keep Cullen on his feet, allow Seto to hit the net, and so forth. Last I checked, Parise has an "A". He IS one of the leaders, yet look at the team right now.

The least of our problems is related to that damn letter on the front of the jersey.

I'm a STH, and I approve this message.

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02-06-2013, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by tomgilbertfan View Post
Yes it is Koivu's fault he was on a line with Bruno and Mittens. Damn him he should've lead us to the cup with that team.
Actually it was. Koivu couldn't develop chemistry with anyone but Bruno and Mitts. I remember specifically they moved Mitts down and Koivu didn't work at all. I mean that is why Havlat and Bouchard really never ended up playing with Koivu. No one is saying that Koivu could have led that team to the playoffs but the fact is, he is a very picky player to play with and his style of leadership is not working with this team.

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02-06-2013, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Actually it was. Koivu couldn't develop chemistry with anyone but Bruno and Mitts. I remember specifically they moved Mitts down and Koivu didn't work at all. I mean that is why Havlat and Bouchard really never ended up playing with Koivu. No one is saying that Koivu could have led that team to the playoffs but the fact is, he is a very picky player to play with and his style of leadership is not working with this team.
Well.. The difference with him clicking with ZP is probably the fact that he can work his ass of compered yto the lazy Havlat guy..

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02-06-2013, 03:10 AM
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Well.. The difference with him clicking with ZP is probably the fact that he can work his ass of compered yto the lazy Havlat guy..
Havlat wasn't lazy here. Havlat didn't like being the second 'star'.

He had 62 points with the Wild.

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02-06-2013, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Actually it was. Koivu couldn't develop chemistry with anyone but Bruno and Mitts. I remember specifically they moved Mitts down and Koivu didn't work at all. I mean that is why Havlat and Bouchard really never ended up playing with Koivu. No one is saying that Koivu could have led that team to the playoffs but the fact is, he is a very picky player to play with and his style of leadership is not working with this team.
I haven't noticed this at all. Most players aren't capable of developing chemistry with every single other player and there's nothing weird about that. You're exaggerating.

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02-06-2013, 03:35 AM
  #11
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I haven't noticed this at all. Most players aren't capable of developing chemistry with every single other player and there's nothing weird about that. You're exaggerating.
Am I? In the last few years how many wingers have we tried with Koivu? How many have stuck?

Gaborik didn't work well with Koivu (remember, we were always struggling to find that other center including throwing Demitra at center). Rolston. Havlat. Bouchard. Setoguchi. Lats. They have never stuck.

In the past 5 years; Heatley, Brunette and Mitts have been the only stable wingers that Koivu has had. We've tried everyone and everything with Koivu and his play style. It hasn't worked.

Koivu is a notoriously picky center that we've tried a variety of wingers to work with and only a few have worked with him.

It isn't every other single player. Teams juggle lines all the time. We try it and everything gets out of whack.

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02-06-2013, 04:25 AM
  #12
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Am I? In the last few years how many wingers have we tried with Koivu? How many have stuck?

Gaborik didn't work well with Koivu (remember, we were always struggling to find that other center including throwing Demitra at center). Rolston. Havlat. Bouchard. Setoguchi. Lats. They have never stuck.

In the past 5 years; Heatley, Brunette and Mitts have been the only stable wingers that Koivu has had. We've tried everyone and everything with Koivu and his play style. It hasn't worked.

Koivu is a notoriously picky center that we've tried a variety of wingers to work with and only a few have worked with him.

It isn't every other single player. Teams juggle lines all the time. We try it and everything gets out of whack.
Yes, you're still exaggerating.

I'm not going to comment on all the players you mentioned because I don't remember enough of all of them to comment. But I don't think Bouchard worked that badly with Koivu and it's still an option. Maybe not the ideal solution, but still viable even now. Not a failure.

Seto's had ONE 30-goal season in SJ back in 08-09 and for the last three seasons his goal totals have been 22 (SJ), 20 (SJ) and 19 (MIN). It's not like he did all that much better there as of late. His potential is a 20-goal scorer, but right now it's much less than that and he hasn't played with Koivu. Not a failure.

If it was really about him as much as you think, then how come they've almost always been able to find him suitable wingers on the national team with very little trouble? Take into account that the selection in wingers is a lot bigger in the NHL than what the national team has to offer. There have been very few failed winger experiments involving Mikko over the years and the ones that haven't worked with him haven't usually worked any better with anyone else either for that matter. How do you explain that?

As far as I can see, Koivu or his alleged pickyness (which I still think is nothing out of the ordinary) is not a core issue on this team. But you did bring up one of the biggest issues that has been there for a long time and still is present: the lack of a good 2nd line center. That is an extremely crucial spot if a team wants to be successful, but when has this team actually had decent #1 and #2 centers at the same time?

Cullen does not cut it, neither does Granlund (at least for now) and I'm not particularly fond of trying Coyle or Larsson there at this point. The big question people should be asking is why this team has no decent 2nd line center rather than focusing on irrelevancies or pointing fingers at one of our best players.


Last edited by Gaps: 02-06-2013 at 06:14 AM.
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02-06-2013, 09:18 AM
  #13
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My patience started to go when Chris Simon was the play off push. I am willing to try anything to make the team better. Right now i think firing Yeo has to be the next move. I do feel we should give the season to Yeo.

Once we signed Parise and Suter we were a team built for the playoffs. Anything less is unaccpetable. The GM got the talent. The coach better be able to work with it.
I'm sorry, did the Wild miss the playoffs already?

Your patience started to go when Doug Risebrough mismanaged the team...so you're holding that against Chuck Fletcher's second coaching hire?

Parise and Suter were a START. Two players don't put you in the playoffs. We need some prospects to step up their game and some of the other players on the team to step up. A few guys have done that but not enough.

Did you see when Fletcher and Yeo called up Charlie Coyle without any injuries? They sent a message to players like Granlund and Setoguchi? They are literally trying different things nearly every game to push this team out of a little dip in the road.

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Originally Posted by LemaireisGOD View Post
The case is starting to build against him. Especially after this summer, he had to know if they struggled he'd find himself on the hotseat and fast.
Maybe in a full season, not a half season. Firing a coach doesn't really show the fan base that you have much confidence in what you're doing. If Yeo goes, Fletcher is going with him, and it's not happening in friggin February.

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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Am I? In the last few years how many wingers have we tried with Koivu? How many have stuck?
TSK, you want to run Koivu out of town? Would you care to look up THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF THE MINNESOTA WILD and tell me any centers that have even come CLOSE to his production?

Here, I'll do it for you.

Here are the top season by Wild centers:

Koivu - 71 points - 2009-10
Koivu - 67 points - 2008-09
Koivu - 62 points - 2010-11
Koivu - 54 points - 2006-07
Brodziak - 44 points - 2011-12
White - 44 points - 2006-07
Koivu - 44 points - 2011-12

Mikko Koivu has the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and tied for 5th best seasons among centers IN WILD FRANCHISE HISTORY. That 5th place finish? That was last year, when he played 55 games, and that still tied the next highest mark, Brodziak, last year, playing #1 center minutes with Heatley.

Still want to run him out of town? Turn it over to Cullen?

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02-06-2013, 09:22 AM
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Oh jezz, we've moved on to running Koivu out of town?

Yeah, that's like the worst idea of all time.

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02-06-2013, 09:28 AM
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Reminds me of when folks were glad to get rid of Gaborik because of his groin injuries. That worked out real well.

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02-06-2013, 09:30 AM
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I remember Parise's words about Koivu at the press conference. Parise couldn't wait to get on the ice with him. Losing Koivu would be a disaster for this franchise.

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02-06-2013, 09:34 AM
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Absolutely ridiculous to think "we should move Koivu for picks and prospects"

That time has passed. We have a crap ton of prospects. We just need to be patient as they hit the NHL over the next year or so.

We're not in any kind of rebuilding mode. Our high end players are in their mid-to-late 20's. We have a half dozen blue-chip prospects who are just barely touching NHL ice.

There's absolutely no reason to be trading off any of our top players, unless you can upgrade from say Heatley or Setoguchi.

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02-06-2013, 10:11 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Actually it was. Koivu couldn't develop chemistry with anyone but Bruno and Mitts. I remember specifically they moved Mitts down and Koivu didn't work at all. I mean that is why Havlat and Bouchard really never ended up playing with Koivu. No one is saying that Koivu could have led that team to the playoffs but the fact is, he is a very picky player to play with and his style of leadership is not working with this team.
Koivu and Butch have played WELL together, almost every time they have been paired.

Koivu played great with Gabby when he was here.

Koivu and Parise ARE playing WELL together already. Many of Parise's goals are directly because of Koivu. See just the last one in Phoenix.

And yes, Koivu did play well with Mittens and Bruno. No one else certainly did, so I don't see how this is a strike against him.

Koivu played well with Gui.

Should I keep going or are you just trying to find fault where there is none.

Koivu is not the problem people. Yes he has off games from time to time, who the hell doesn't. I saw Parise even floating a little during that Phoenix game, **** happens, it doesn't mean anything at all most of the time.

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02-06-2013, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Am I? In the last few years how many wingers have we tried with Koivu? How many have stuck?

Gaborik didn't work well with Koivu (remember, we were always struggling to find that other center including throwing Demitra at center). Rolston. Havlat. Bouchard. Setoguchi. Lats. They have never stuck.

In the past 5 years; Heatley, Brunette and Mitts have been the only stable wingers that Koivu has had. We've tried everyone and everything with Koivu and his play style. It hasn't worked.

Koivu is a notoriously picky center that we've tried a variety of wingers to work with and only a few have worked with him.

It isn't every other single player. Teams juggle lines all the time. We try it and everything gets out of whack.
Look, I'm sorry you don't like Koivu for whatever reason, but your statements about him are completely biased and not based on actual events.

If even half of what you said is true at all, then, why would he even be our captain, and why would Fletch have signed him to, at the time, the longest and most lucrative contract in Wild history? Fletch who didn't even offer Gabby a contract at all, and traded Burns. He also swalloed his pride and traded Havlat when that was not working out.

Fletch has a great hockey mind and he is not giving these contracts out to spoiled, lazy, overbearing and singleminded prima donnas.

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02-06-2013, 10:26 AM
  #20
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We could have Malkin on our team and people would find reasons to want to get rid of him.

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02-06-2013, 11:18 AM
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Jesus, do the Koivu haters actually remember the difference in the entire team last year between when Koivu was there and when he wasn't?

Here, I'll spell it out: the Wild won 27 games out of the 55 he played last year, and won 8 of the 27 he didn't.


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02-06-2013, 12:01 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by BuddyMcCormick View Post
Hockey isn't basketball where you throw 3 superstars together and expect results. It's a game where you have to become familiar with how each other plays, know where they're going to be, what they're going to do. I would have expected more knowledge from someone that is all knowing. They need to learn how each other plays. End of story.
MK played with DH last year. At times MK practiced in summer/during lockout with ZP. MK and ZP know each other, or else the first line wouldn't be productive thus far. Cullen, Brodziak, Seto, Cal, all here last year, know the system, know each other, yet production is down.

In a shortened season, you cannot play like the Wild has, and make the playoffs. 1 point, and no wins on the road. Doesn't cut it. The casual fan can be okay with the Wild not making the playoffs, but the team's economics cannot. That 3-4K increase in season's tickets that came about due to ZP/RS can erode very quickly if this team does not show improvement. Because what happens next year? Even more new players. Think about it. Backstrom, Harding, Cullen, PMB at minimum are likely gone-ers. Seto, Cal C, other 3rd or 4th line fillers?

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02-06-2013, 12:36 PM
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MK played with DH last year. At times MK practiced in summer/during lockout with ZP. MK and ZP know each other, or else the first line wouldn't be productive thus far. Cullen, Brodziak, Seto, Cal, all here last year, know the system, know each other, yet production is down.

In a shortened season, you cannot play like the Wild has, and make the playoffs. 1 point, and no wins on the road. Doesn't cut it. The casual fan can be okay with the Wild not making the playoffs, but the team's economics cannot. That 3-4K increase in season's tickets that came about due to ZP/RS can erode very quickly if this team does not show improvement. Because what happens next year? Even more new players. Think about it. Backstrom, Harding, Cullen, PMB at minimum are likely gone-ers. Seto, Cal C, other 3rd or 4th line fillers?
I must have been unclear. I wasn't specifically talking about the first line. It's the team in general. Just because 2 players have played together before doesn't mean that their style of play won't change if you mix add a completely new person.

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02-06-2013, 01:34 PM
  #24
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TSK, you want to run Koivu out of town? Would you care to look up THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF THE MINNESOTA WILD and tell me any centers that have even come CLOSE to his production?
Ah yes, the telephone game. Where did I say I want Koivu ran out of town? The fact is, he's the ideal SECOND LINE CENTER. I think this offseason we should be looking at getting another top 6 center simply because Granlund isn't it, we don't have one in Houston or in our prospect list.

Here's the thing; I don't want Koivu gone but I don't think he's done much as captain of the team. I rather have the team return to the rotating captaincy or simply remove it and have three assistant captains. I also think that a line of Bouchard - Koivu - Heatley as the second line would be ideal.

But I absolutely don't want Koivu gone. I just think that he's part of the problem in terms of leadership and passion. You can really see how this team is molded after him.

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02-06-2013, 01:46 PM
  #25
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Ah yes, the telephone game. Where did I say I want Koivu ran out of town? The fact is, he's the ideal SECOND LINE CENTER. I think this offseason we should be looking at getting another top 6 center simply because Granlund isn't it, we don't have one in Houston or in our prospect list.

Here's the thing; I don't want Koivu gone but I don't think he's done much as captain of the team. I rather have the team return to the rotating captaincy or simply remove it and have three assistant captains. I also think that a line of Bouchard - Koivu - Heatley as the second line would be ideal.

But I absolutely don't want Koivu gone. I just think that he's part of the problem in terms of leadership and passion. You can really see how this team is molded after him.
Passion? Really? He's one of the most passionate players I've ever seen.

Stripping him of the letter would change nothing. Absolutely nothing. He'd still lead the team, it is his after all.

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