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Hawks - Sharks = Hawks Win 5-3

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Old
02-06-2013, 12:13 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
In all my years of watching the Hawks, it is very difficult to recall a stretch this good.
Agreed. In recent memory the only comparable runs were the 8 game winning streak in 10-11 and the 9 gamer in 08-09. But this one's more impressive simply because it started when the season did.

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Old
02-06-2013, 12:17 PM
  #77
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I'm not going to complain about the blown call. It seems like the Hawks have been on the other side of those calls too often where an actual penalty isn't called, the Wiz hit on Seabrook and Torres on Hossa.

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02-06-2013, 12:58 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by RayP View Post
Shoulder on shoulder. Should have had his head up. Whether or not he launched himself is debatable. One could say he didn't launch himself and the contact caused him to lose his feet. It definitely wasn't a clear launch, like say the Torres on Hossa hit.
I never said he hit him in the head, he left his feet, it's not debateable. Both feet were off the ground when he made contact. And Mayers never made a play on the puck, just because a puck hit's someones skate doesn't mean they are free to get hit. The player must have possession of the puck before he is legal to hit. Mayers never had possession.

I'm not comparing the hit to Torres hit at all, just said it wasn't clean, and should of recieved a minor penalty. There was certainly nothing major about it.

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02-06-2013, 01:03 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by FakeKidPoker View Post
Can we say then that Kesler is more than a little better than Toews on defense in that case?
No, Kesler is used far more in the defensive end, because they have a better offensive C in their line-up (Sedin). Toews is the only offensive threat that we have at C, so he is used offensively more than defensively, probably the ONLY reason he hasn't won a Selke yet. That and we have Bolland to do all the defensive dirty work.

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Originally Posted by FakeKidPoker View Post
Kane is really the only option you have for number 1 in clutch factor on this team... everyone else fighting it out for 2nd or 3rd.
No, he isn't. Toews is by far a #1 clutch option. Kane is there with him, but is not any better, or worse than Toews as far as 'clutchness' goes.

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02-06-2013, 01:05 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by xX Hot Fuss View Post
I dont know, i thought the Mayers hit was relatively clean. Mayers cant be breaking out of the zone with his head down and behind him while he has the puck. It looked like Desarjdins hit his shoulder first.

I dont like talking about hits and whether they were dirty or not. Something that should be so simple as video-evidence gets so convoluted on forums.
He didn't have the puck, did people completely miss this or what?

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02-06-2013, 01:09 PM
  #81
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As a Hawk fan one should be able to appreciate the contributions of Toews, Kane and Hoss, as they are all great players in their own rite, and each brings a lot to this team.
Comparing Toews with Crosby is difficult. Sure, it is natural for, and I can fully understand that most fans automatically go with Crosby but Crosby is not the defensive presence that Toews is, and he never will be. I can equate it somewhat to comparing Gretzky with Messier in their heyday. They were both tremendous hockey players but who was more valuable in their overall game? Either way you can’t really go wrong, but who would you rather have in a crucial, high intensity and physical playoff game? I think you’d be surprised at how many GM’s/coaches would take Messier. That would be my pick as well. For this team, Toews is their heart and soul. Even at his tender age he is right up there with Hull and Mikita…. Same as Crosby is up there with Lemieux and Jagr. You choose. But please don’t give me this crap about Toews being overrated by anyone. All real hockey people will tell you he is underrated, if anything. He should have been a nominee for the Selke every season he has played in the NHL.

Back to the game: haven’t seen it yet, but absolutely love the fact that Keith stood up for Mayers.

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02-06-2013, 01:09 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
He didn't have the puck, did people completely miss this or what?
Right, it was like Kronwall on Havlat. A puck that hits someone in the skates doesn't mean possession.

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Old
02-06-2013, 01:12 PM
  #83
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My thoughts on the game:

- Toews was the best player on the ice. That breakaway he had was a thing of beauty (minus not scoring haha): hound the puck, coral it and somehow make a nice deke with a player draped all over him. He seems to be rounding into form and was all over the ice last night

- Shaw had his best game of the year. Hopefully he is figuring out how to be a centre in this league.

- Games like this are what drive me crazy about Bryan Bickell. If he could just bring this type of intensity all the time he would be an absolute force in the bottom 6 whether he scores or not. He has such a rare combination of size, strength and speed that he can be an absolute beast physically when he wants to... unfortunately he has never brought it consistently.

- Good to see Saad get rewarded for his hard work. Ironically, I thought it was one of his poorer performances this season (which is not a big insult since I feel he has played excellently all season). Hopefully this gets the monkey off his back and he can start to put up some points. As Eddie O pointed out during the game, Q deserves some credit for sticking with the kid on the top line despite not putting up points.

- Kruger continues to prove he belongs. Good to see Q took my advice () and put Mayers on his wing to take draws. Aside from faceoffs, I really can't believe how much he continues to impress me. He is always in the right place at the right time defensively and plays a gritty game (especially for someone of his size). I really can't say enough about him.

- Speaking of whipping boys who are proving many people wrong, Nik Hjalmarsson has been IMO the best defenseman on the team this season. His confidence with the puck seems to be 100X what it was last year. As a result, he is taking his time with the puck (instead of playing it like a hot potatoe) and making good decisions and crisp passes. This newfound confidence with the puck added to his already impressive defensive games makes him a very valuable part of this team.

- Crawford gave up a couple bad ones (though there is definitely some blame to go around), but bounced back and made some solid saves after letting in the 3rd. Not every game is going to a 2-1 affair, and it was good to see Crawford hang tough after a couple bad goals and come back strong.

- As coldsteel has already pointed out, I think we have to start giving the coaching staff a little more credit here. The PK has obviously been amazing, but I feel like the coaching staff has done an admirable job of preparing this team for the shortened season, especially with such a short training camp.

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Old
02-06-2013, 01:15 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
Right, it was like Kronwall on Havlat. A puck that hits someone in the skates doesn't mean possession.
Agree, but that was a little closer to possession at least. The puck was right underneath Havlat. The puck in this case bounced off of Mayers skate and away from him.

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02-06-2013, 01:30 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
As a Hawk fan one should be able to appreciate the contributions of Toews, Kane and Hoss, as they are all great players in their own rite, and each brings a lot to this team.
Comparing Toews with Crosby is difficult. Sure, it is natural for, and I can fully understand that most fans automatically go with Crosby but Crosby is not the defensive presence that Toews is, and he never will be. I can equate it somewhat to comparing Gretzky with Messier in their heyday. They were both tremendous hockey players but who was more valuable in their overall game? Either way you can’t really go wrong, but who would you rather have in a crucial, high intensity and physical playoff game? I think you’d be surprised at how many GM’s/coaches would take Messier. That would be my pick as well. For this team, Toews is their heart and soul. Even at his tender age he is right up there with Hull and Mikita…. Same as Crosby is up there with Lemieux and Jagr. You choose. But please don’t give me this crap about Toews being overrated by anyone. All real hockey people will tell you he is underrated, if anything. He should have been a nominee for the Selke every season he has played in the NHL.

Back to the game: haven’t seen it yet, but absolutely love the fact that Keith stood up for Mayers.
I think the difference between Crosby/Toews and Messier/Gretzky is the fact that while Crosby may never be as good defensively as Toews, he is still pretty damn good defensively. Also Crosby doesn't mind playing in a rough physical game one bit, in fact he seems to thrive in them. The same could not be said for Gretzky.

As for the Toews/Crosby debate itself, I agree it is not as cut and dry as many make it out to be. If Crosby had absolutely no injury concerns, I would take him over Toews (he would literally be the only player in the NHL I would at this point). But the thing about Toews is that he just means so much to this team. The argument I used to make (although now it is changing a bit since we have lost in the 1st round the last 2 years) is this:

in Toews' first 3 seasons in the NHL:
- As a rookie led a team that was 5th worst in the league a season before to within 3 points of a playoff spot (I would argue they would have made the playoffs had he not been injured)
- Named captain as a sophomore and leads his team to the conference finals
- Following year leads his team to the Stanley Cup and is named Conn Smythe winner

When you look at those accomplishments, can you honestly say that if you replaced Toews with any player they would have led the Hawks to significantly more success? It is pretty hard to top. Now, as I said earlier, this argument has since changes a bit after 2 first round losses, but I think the gist of it remains the same: while there are players out there that may put up more points, may be flashier, may be more offensive etc... it would be hard to argue that trading any of them for Toews would have significantly improved the success of this team.

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02-06-2013, 01:52 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
HUH!? Urlacher is a HOF and Rooney is one of the best soccer players in the world, that a bad example on both accounts.
It's hardly a bad example. Urlacher is a future HOF'er, but he's nowhere near the best player on that defense (Briggs/Tillman/Peppers). Rooney is a bit of a different story, he probably is United's best player at the moment (an argument for Robin Van Persie can be made) but for a large part of his career he's been overshadowed by more skilled players (Cristiano Ronaldo).

I never meant any of that as a knock against Toews. It was a comparison made to show that a player can be an elite player while not being the best player on his own team.

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02-06-2013, 02:04 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawks82 View Post
It's hardly a bad example. Urlacher is a future HOF'er, but he's nowhere near the best player on that defense (Briggs/Tillman/Peppers). Rooney is a bit of a different story, he probably is United's best player at the moment (an argument for Robin Van Persie can be made) but for a large part of his career he's been overshadowed by more skilled players (Cristiano Ronaldo).

I never meant any of that as a knock against Toews. It was a comparison made to show that a player can be an elite player while not being the best player on his own team.
Urlacher isn't the best player on that team today because of his age. From 2001-2009 he was the best player not just on defense but on the whole team.

Rooney was overshadowed by Ronaldo, who is the 2nd best player on the planet, it doesn't make him any less talented though. Rooney is still one of the better players in the world.

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02-06-2013, 02:18 PM
  #88
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You can't just see what makes Toews so special either by just watching their games. It's things beyond that. It's the fact that he runs the entire pre-game routine for the Hawks, something I have seen him do for a few years now. Doesn't seem like much but shows his leadership.

One of my favorite things about him and it's almost a secret but known to some. Every year Toews gathers all the new Hawks players, rookies, draft picks, FA and has a meeting with them, in that meeting he tells them what it means to play Blackhawks hockey, what it means to be a Chicago Blackhawk, what he expects from them and they can expect from him. He has done this since his 2nd year as captain. A 20 something kid telling 10+ year vets like, Turco, Brunette, Rosival, and others what it means to be a Hawk.

Add that to his complete game, of the most complete games in the NHL and you get to me one of the best players. He is the forward and current day Lidstrom, not flashy, not the most amazing player, but someone who will play well in every aspect of the game, someone who you can rely on night in and night out to play his heart out, who will work harder then anyone else, who will lead with words and by example, and who will be the guy your team can lean on when it matters most.

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Old
02-06-2013, 02:22 PM
  #89
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My shift got canceled today so watched the recording of the game.

Loved seeing the team bounce back individually (Crawford, for one) and collectively. Team is very resilient so far and you get the feeling they're never not in a game even when they're down. That's been missing the past couple seasons.

Great seeing Saad finally pot one and get rewarded for his play. Hoping he starts doing it more regularly now that he got the first one out of the way.

As for the hit, that is a terrible call. I can understand making a penalty call on that seeing as they have to make that judgement in real-time at ice level, but nothing about that hit even in those conditions called for a match penalty. A match is for a deliberate attempt to injure, and that was very much not the case there. I'll take the call as a Hawks fan, but that was bad. That was, in fact, a good hit, period.

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Old
02-06-2013, 02:41 PM
  #90
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great game from the boys. not sure why but even when we got down early, I wasnt upset or screaming yet. I for some reason didnt feel the game was over or out of hand..and sure as ****, the boys came back and beat them Sharks baby!!

this team has skill there is no denying that, and though I love Keith sticking up for Mayers, I really dont ever want to see that again. If Mayers is on the ice, that means our 4th line is out there, someone else needs to pounce on him besides Keith. I get the fact that Keith was right there, but I just dont want to see him get hurt...bravo to Keith though for standing up and being a leader, that kind of **** bonds a team.

Bickell played great, used his body and threw some big hits. I think you deal with his crap just for games like these.

Shaw looked good as well, happy that he was out there buzzing all night.

Awesome for Saad, the kid deserved this soooo damn much. Now lets see 19 more kid!

Kane is the king of right place right time. puck just finds him.

Crawford's play was one of my favorites this year from him and I know that sounds crazy. I was actually saying for Q to pull him after the 3rd goal, but he didnt and stuck with CC. Crawford stepped up and made some key saves the final 2 periods which really helped us out. this game proved to me this year is a different year for CC and he is a different goalie. I loved his resilent play and never die attitude, it showed the whole club that he wasnt quiting on them. he gave up 3 goals, but never gave up another from the 2nd on...loved his play.

overall a treat of a game to stay up for, now I cant wait to beat the living **** out of Torres and and the Yotes tomorrow...!!!

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Old
02-06-2013, 02:45 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
He didn't have the puck, did people completely miss this or what?
lol, i was beginning to wonder reading through the thread @ people saying Mayers needs to keep his head up in that situation...uh, the puck bounced around in his feet and away from him, that's why he had his head down, trying to locate the puck, he didn't have possession of it. Glad to see I'm not the only who remembers it this way.

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Old
02-06-2013, 03:27 PM
  #92
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The puck had just deflected off of his skates just before he was hit. By definition of the rules that counts a possession and puts you within rights of being hit. No different than that couple seconds you get to to finish a check after a guy makes a pass, shot, whatever. He was 100% within the rules a checkable player there.

That said, Mayers isn't at fault for looking down there. That's what you call a buddy pass. He had to look down to receive the pass and gain control. He got set up to get railed by whoever it was that gave him the pass. Crap happens, it's hockey.

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02-06-2013, 03:34 PM
  #93
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Right, it is within the rules but can you really fault Mayers? I don't think so.

Although some people here seem like they want to teach Jamal Mayers how to play hockey the right way and to keep his head up since he doesn't know. He is a 16 year NHL vet but he really could learn a few things about how to play from us HF posters.

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02-06-2013, 03:36 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by RomersWorld View Post
Right, it is within the rules but can you really fault Mayers? I don't think so.

Although some people here seem like they want to teach Jamal Mayers how to play hockey the right way and to keep his head up since he doesn't know. He is a 16 year NHL vet but he really could learn a few things about how to play from us HF posters.
Wasn't arguing that, just pointing it out as some seem to think he wasn't in a situation where he could be legally checked.

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Old
02-06-2013, 03:36 PM
  #95
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Well, if the rules state you can hit someone that doesn't have possession like Mayers, then I'll say it's clean. Still think he jumped at him though.

Also, if anyone is to blame on the Chicago side, it's Keith, not Mayers.

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02-06-2013, 03:39 PM
  #96
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He had possession, though. That's the point. He didn't catch the pass cleanly but it made contact with his feet. If its anywhere within the vicinity of a player's feet/stick even without contacting the puck it's going to be considered hitable ( like that Havlat hit that was already mentioned)

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02-06-2013, 03:39 PM
  #97
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Well, if the rules state you can hit someone that doesn't have possession like Mayers, then I'll say it's clean. Still think he jumped at him though.

Also, if anyone is to blame on the Chicago side, it's Keith, not Mayers.
Rule 56: The last player to touch the puck, other than the goalkeeper, shall be considered the player in possession. The player deemed in possession of the puck may be checked legally, provided the check is rendered immediately following his loss of possession.


So it really comes down to if the hit was immediately following his loss of possession, ie did it immediately come after it hit him. Thats up for interpretation.

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02-06-2013, 03:48 PM
  #98
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To me, possession means having the puck on your stick, or moving it with your feet. Mayers had it deflect off his foot, and at no time was in actual possession of the puck.

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02-06-2013, 03:49 PM
  #99
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Wasn't arguing that, just pointing it out as some seem to think he wasn't in a situation where he could be legally checked.
I wasn't really directing it at you...I just get bothered by those people who any time there is a hit where the player had his head down they try to berate him like "oh i learn dis in peewee..you gotta keep your head up!!!". Like, no shyt and I'm pretty sure Jamal Mayers who has been in the NHL since before some of these people were born knows that he needs to keep his head up. It isn't possible to see every hit before it comes and especially one like this where he didn't really have possession even though under the rules he did have possession and was able to be hit.

I don't blame Desjardins for hitting him and I don't blame Mayers for not seeing it coming. It was a weird play and I'd rather see Mayers go directly toward trying to recover the puck in his own zone than look around and turn it over because he fumbled it being scared of a hit.

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02-06-2013, 03:49 PM
  #100
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In my interpretation, that's pretty clear possession, by rule. If he doesn't get clocked it's going to bounce in front of him for him to scoop up. He's inadvertently attempting to kick it to his stick.

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