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*ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals)

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Old
02-06-2013, 12:21 PM
  #901
BeersHockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Why are we talking about Kesler and Richards.

Kesler is also bigger, stronger, and faster.
Yeah?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI-KT-aIYr8

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Old
02-06-2013, 12:21 PM
  #902
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Originally Posted by Ballgarath View Post
LoL richards is better? had an overall better career yes but at 32 today no way is he a 40 goal scoring selke winner. thx for coming out though.
He is a year younger then Kesler, LOL

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02-06-2013, 12:27 PM
  #903
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Yeah, nice decision on the video that all Canucks fans even admit that Kesler dove.
And one video doesn't prove anything.

By that theory, Richards is a terrible fighter because of this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao-RKWBdiDk

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Old
02-06-2013, 12:29 PM
  #904
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
I edited my post after to acknowledge that it is close. Winning the Selke in the Datsuyk era is a big accomplishment though. Doing that while scoring over 40 goals is a huge deal.
Just jumping in, I like Kessler but I think he is fairly overrated around here.

In 5 full NHL seasons, he has four where he had goal totals in the 20s, and one where he hit 41. The 40 goal season looks more like an outlier than a definition of where he is at. His defensive game is very good, yes, but I am just saying that I think his offensive upside is severely overrated and typecast because of one burst season.

As a Leaf fan, a team that really needs a C, if I had an open choice I would take Richards over Kessler personally.

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02-06-2013, 12:37 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
Just jumping in, I like Kessler but I think he is fairly overrated around here.

In 5 full NHL seasons, he has four where he had goal totals in the 20s, and one where he hit 41. The 40 goal season looks more like an outlier than a definition of where he is at. His defensive game is very good, yes, but I am just saying that I think his offensive upside is severely overrated and typecast because of one burst season.

As a Leaf fan, a team that really needs a C, if I had an open choice I would take Richards over Kessler personally.
Fair enough. But if Kesler's offensive game is overrated check out the stats of each for the past 3 years and tell me why Richards isn't also overrated. Last year he was pretty brutal.

ps. Not to harp on Leaf fans but it's 'Kesler'. According to Bob Cole he plays with the Sundins a lot on the power play and according to Don Cherry Bieska is the point man.

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02-06-2013, 12:40 PM
  #906
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
Just jumping in, I like Kessler but I think he is fairly overrated around here.

In 5 full NHL seasons, he has four where he had goal totals in the 20s, and one where he hit 41. The 40 goal season looks more like an outlier than a definition of where he is at. His defensive game is very good, yes, but I am just saying that I think his offensive upside is severely overrated and typecast because of one burst season.

As a Leaf fan, a team that really needs a C, if I had an open choice I would take Richards over Kessler personally.
In my estimation Kesler was on the incline before going through a pretty injury ravaged year last year. Sure he's only had the one 40 goal year but the year before he had over 70 points I beleive. Richards on the hand looks to have really lost it since moving out west. I know they won a cup and he looked pretty good there but my money is with Kesley. He is just so strong, fast and difficult to play against. He is however not an ideal no.1 center but he is a perfect no.2. I would agree 40 goals was a lot for him but in the high 20s to 30s is very attainable in a full season.

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02-06-2013, 12:41 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by Skead View Post
Yeah, nice decision on the video that all Canucks fans even admit that Kesler dove.
And one video doesn't prove anything.

By that theory, Richards is a terrible fighter because of this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao-RKWBdiDk
Not really. Your video would support a statement like "Kevin Bieksa is a better fighter than Mike Richards." But not that Richards is a terrible fighter. Whereas, my video directly goes to the proposition that "Kesler is stronger and faster than Richards." Now, if you are saying that my argument is weak because the video instead just shows Kesler's low character and competitiveness (i.e. because he is a diving cheater), and therefore strength and speed cannot be properly attributed to Richards owning Kesler in that clip, then I accept that as a possibility. Either way, I will take the guy that actually focuses on playing hockey.

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02-06-2013, 12:43 PM
  #908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
Just jumping in, I like Kessler but I think he is fairly overrated around here.

In 5 full NHL seasons, he has four where he had goal totals in the 20s, and one where he hit 41. The 40 goal season looks more like an outlier than a definition of where he is at. His defensive game is very good, yes, but I am just saying that I think his offensive upside is severely overrated and typecast because of one burst season.

As a Leaf fan, a team that really needs a C, if I had an open choice I would take Richards over Kessler personally.
http://kuklaskorner.com/index.php/ps...corsi_ratings1

Kesler, when at his prime, is often a leader in raw Corsi Ratings and QualComp.
I have no doubt Kesler has a better ceiling for potential than Richards but the big question is can Kesler keep healthy.
If yes, Kesler is easily the best 2nd line center in the league. If not, he falls quite a bit IMO

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Originally Posted by BeersHockey View Post
Not really. Your video would support a statement like "Kevin Bieksa is a better fighter than Mike Richards." But not that Richards is a terrible fighter. Whereas, my video directly goes to the proposition that "Kesler is stronger and faster than Richards." Now, if you are saying that my argument is weak because the video instead just shows Kesler's low character and competitiveness (i.e. because he is a diving cheater), and therefore strength and speed cannot be properly attributed to Richards owning Kesler in that clip, then I accept that as a possibility. Either way, I will take the guy that actually focuses on playing hockey.
I will be the first to admit when Kesler was dealing with a few injuries he was dealing with he resorted to some antics I do not agree with. But players go through that, Richards had a very "colourful" party life that got him in some trouble. Kesler needs to play hard, skate hard to draw legitimate penalties and not this diving crap, then I would easily give my vote of confidence to Kesler over any other 2nd line center in the league.

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02-06-2013, 01:00 PM
  #909
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So...thought this was a thread about loungo?


Any other canucks players that aren't as good as some other players we want to talk about??

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02-06-2013, 01:09 PM
  #910
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LOL, this is so not going to go over well but I am going to say it anyway. Kesler has more talent, but i think Richards is a better leader and team guy. If I am choosing between the two for my TEAM i pck Richards, game of one on one I take kesler, just my two cents

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02-06-2013, 01:10 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by rune74 View Post
So...thought this was a thread about loungo?


Any other canucks players that aren't as good as some other players we want to talk about??
Hey, I believe it was brought up via a proposal and by a Nucks fan, lol, we all just sorta started talking about it.

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02-06-2013, 01:16 PM
  #912
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Richards also has spent the majority of his career as a top line guy. Where Kesler worked up from the 3/4 lines.

That will balance out the numbers. Richards was much better early. kesler is better now. Better numbers brings a more complete game and has a better contract.

1.6 million is a significant cost difference

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02-06-2013, 01:19 PM
  #913
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Originally Posted by BeersHockey View Post
Not really. Your video would support a statement like "Kevin Bieksa is a better fighter than Mike Richards." But not that Richards is a terrible fighter. Whereas, my video directly goes to the proposition that "Kesler is stronger and faster than Richards." Now, if you are saying that my argument is weak because the video instead just shows Kesler's low character and competitiveness (i.e. because he is a diving cheater), and therefore strength and speed cannot be properly attributed to Richards owning Kesler in that clip, then I accept that as a possibility. Either way, I will take the guy that actually focuses on playing hockey.
The guy who was playing healthy in that clip looks way better than the guy who was not.

Shocker.

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Old
02-06-2013, 01:25 PM
  #914
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Hey...with all the Kesler/Richards talk....who has the better save percentage? The Leafs need a goalie and these 2 really are getting talked about alot in a goalie thread.

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02-06-2013, 01:36 PM
  #915
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What about something like..

Florida:
Luongo
Raymond
Anton Rodin

Vancouver:
Weiss
Shore
Clemmensen

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Old
02-06-2013, 01:42 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by TLinden16 View Post
What about something like..

Florida:
Luongo
Raymond
Anton Rodin

Vancouver:
Weiss
Shore
Clemmensen
I think the value is there for both sides, but boy I'd be sad if Weiss didn't resign after the season.

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02-06-2013, 01:50 PM
  #917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLinden16 View Post
What about something like..

Florida:
Luongo
Raymond
Anton Rodin

Vancouver:
Weiss
Shore
Clemmensen
I doubt Florida's management would be interested in trading two centers from their roster right now, and I know their fans don't want to.

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02-06-2013, 01:50 PM
  #918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLinden16 View Post
What about something like..

Florida:
Luongo
Raymond
Anton Rodin

Vancouver:
Weiss
Shore
Clemmensen
I doubt Florida wants to move more than 1 center in a trade.

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Old
02-06-2013, 01:58 PM
  #919
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Hey...with all the Kesler/Richards talk....who has the better save percentage? The Leafs need a goalie and these 2 really are getting talked about alot in a goalie thread.
Oh, that's easy its Datsyuk, lol

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02-06-2013, 02:14 PM
  #920
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Originally Posted by TLinden16 View Post
What about something like..

Florida:
Luongo
Raymond
Anton Rodin

Vancouver:
Weiss
Shore
Clemmensen
The Canucks are not trading Luongo. He is clearly more valuable to their team's success than any return offered.

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02-06-2013, 02:20 PM
  #921
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
The Canucks are not trading Luongo. He is clearly more valuable to their team's success than any return offered.
I agree this season he is going nowhere, IMO.

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02-06-2013, 02:25 PM
  #922
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
The Canucks are not trading Luongo. He is clearly more valuable to their team's success than any return offered.
It sure does look that way. Unless he starts to falter and/or Schneider starts standing on his head, he's staying until the summer.

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02-06-2013, 02:28 PM
  #923
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I agree this season he is going nowhere, IMO.
Do you think it makes more sense to trade Luongo in the Summer after signing a very good free-agent? Then trading Luongo for a lesser return could be justified by the signing. "Canucks trade Luongo's cap hit, allowing them to sign player X"

Perhaps that scenario creates the return Gillis wants?

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02-06-2013, 02:34 PM
  #924
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Do you think it makes more sense to trade Luongo in the Summer after signing a very good free-agent? Then trading Luongo for a lesser return could be justified by the signing. "Canucks trade Luongo's cap hit, allowing them to sign player X"

Perhaps that scenario creates the return Gillis wants?
Well, I think that he is almost going to have to be traded for cap space in the summer. I know many will say this is because I am not a Nucks fan, however it is just with the cap going down, i see no GM looking to up their offer. They know gillis will need to get cap compliant, especially if he wants to sign a player or even possibly trade for another. It is a factof today NHL, to me not the player Lou is. There just always seem to be fewer and fewer hockey deals. I think they keep him make there run, maybe even buy at the deadline, take the best shot they can and part ways.

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02-06-2013, 02:57 PM
  #925
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Either way, I will take the guy that actually focuses on playing hockey.
Cause Richards is known for being a guy that "just focuses on hockey"

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