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If we do land Seth Jones...

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Old
02-06-2013, 11:52 AM
  #26
Nihiliste
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Gotta keep in mind that drafting Jones won't solve our D problems for some time anyways, whether he develops in the NHL or Juniors/AHL. Doughty is something of an anomaly, but Pietrangelo and Karlsson, two of the most prodigious young defensive talents didn't fully break out until the 4th season after their drafts.

EDIT: and yes, Sacco has another year on his contract. I imagine they'll use the injury excuse and let him finish the contract rather than pay two coaches.


Last edited by Nihiliste: 02-06-2013 at 11:58 AM.
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02-06-2013, 12:07 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
I'm not sure the Avs would take Jones if they had the #1 overall pick.
No matter if they have #1 or #10, if Drouin is on the board, they're taking him. Guaranteed.

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02-06-2013, 12:18 PM
  #28
Lonewolfe2015
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
No matter if they have #1 or #10, if Drouin is on the board, they're taking him. Guaranteed.
Why do you say that, curiously?

I'd love Drouin as much as the next guy, but Jones seems more like our guy. Avs fan, Sakic's influence, serious need and his overall talent.

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02-06-2013, 12:44 PM
  #29
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He'll be ruined if he plays on this team. Keep him in the WHL unless you can comfortably play him 18-20 a game.

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02-06-2013, 12:51 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Why do you say that, curiously?

I'd love Drouin as much as the next guy, but Jones seems more like our guy. Avs fan, Sakic's influence, serious need and his overall talent.
I wonder if it's because hes 5' 11 185? lol Small winger...

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02-06-2013, 01:38 PM
  #31
Bubba Thudd
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
I wonder if it's because hes 5' 11 185? lol Small winger...
Isn't MacKinnon about the same size, though?

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02-06-2013, 01:48 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
Isn't MacKinnon about the same size, though?
MacKinnon is 6'0 182lbs... BIG difference there. It is kind of funny how anything under 6'0 is considered average-small. Drouin is the only one ranked in the top 6 that is under 6'0 and we like small forwards so you have to take what you can get if there isn't anyone at 5'10.

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02-06-2013, 02:04 PM
  #33
Cullen Bohannon
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I'm still not overly sold on Drouin.

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02-06-2013, 02:12 PM
  #34
henchman24
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Originally Posted by GeoffL19 View Post
I'm still not overly sold on Drouin.
As a #1 or 2 pick, I'm not there yet. As just a top 5 pick I am totally sold.

The one thing I am sold on is that out of the top 15 or so players there are 11-12 that I would be extremely happy to see in the Avs organization. This draft isn't a 2003 by any means, but it is one of the top 3 since then IMO.

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02-06-2013, 02:13 PM
  #35
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Well I wouldn't doubt he would be our 2nd best defenseman, but is it really best long term?
it depends on where he is as a player in terms of development. if he can play in the NHL right away then play him. outside of potential confidence issues if he fails it would be the best place for him.

if he needs more seasoning then put him in the minors and let him develop more. but ideally if you pick high enough to get him then he would be playing in the NHL immediately. but being in the minors didn't hurt Hamilton(God i still hate that he didn't fall to us.)

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02-06-2013, 02:13 PM
  #36
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If we do land Seth Jones........Sacco will ruin him.
If we were bad enough to draft Jones I would hope Sacco would be gone.

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02-06-2013, 02:13 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
As a #1 or 2 pick, I'm not there yet. As just a top 5 pick I am totally sold.

The one thing I am sold on is that out of the top 15 or so players there are 11-12 that I would be extremely happy to see in the Avs organization. This draft isn't a 2003 by any means, but it is one of the top 3 since then IMO.
Ding ding ding.

Drouin is a great talent, perhaps not a MacK/Jones/Barkov, but great talent that I would be overjoyed to have. This draft looks awesome.

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02-06-2013, 02:15 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by GamingGiant View Post
If we were bad enough to draft Jones I would hope Sacco would be gone.
if we are that bad and Sacco isn't gone there are only two explanations.
1.He's got video of Avs owners and management in some senatorial type of shenanigans.
2.The Avs don't care about winning, only having guys they like in high places.

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02-06-2013, 02:16 PM
  #39
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Drafting a dman? That would be so boring. I'd rather we draft MacKinnon and trade someone for a top 4 dman (like Stastny).

Let's be honest, as good as Seth Jones MIGHT be, he won't be a top pairing dman for probably at least another couple seasons. We can have another guy fill into the top 4 in the meantime and we need a big impact forward anyways. Plus it's usually a safer bet to draft a forward with a pick that high, dmen bust too much or fail to live to potential.

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02-06-2013, 02:25 PM
  #40
henchman24
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Originally Posted by Kloparren View Post
Drafting a dman? That would be so boring. I'd rather we draft MacKinnon and trade someone for a top 4 dman (like Stastny).

Let's be honest, as good as Seth Jones MIGHT be, he won't be a top pairing dman for probably at least another couple seasons. We can have another guy fill into the top 4 in the meantime and we need a big impact forward anyways. Plus it's usually a safer bet to draft a forward with a pick that high, dmen bust too much or fail to live to potential.
The Avs just need BPA unless that is a goalie (I don't think we should draft a goalie until next year). There is a serious lack of depth in every other aspect of the organization. Siemens, Elliott, and Barrie are the only defensemen that should stick in the NHL. Beaupre and Gaunce might. For forwards Sgarbossa is the only one I would say I am fully confident in. Heard, Smith, Bourke (next most likely IMO), Malone, and Meurs might, but all have some serious questions to answer. The Avs probably need to hit on 3-4 draft picks this year to replenish the prospect pool.

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02-06-2013, 02:25 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Kloparren View Post
Drafting a dman? That would be so boring. I'd rather we draft MacKinnon and trade someone for a top 4 dman (like Stastny).

Let's be honest, as good as Seth Jones MIGHT be, he won't be a top pairing dman for probably at least another couple seasons. We can have another guy fill into the top 4 in the meantime and we need a big impact forward anyways. Plus it's usually a safer bet to draft a forward with a pick that high, dmen bust too much or fail to live to potential.
as much as i am normally on board with drafting the flash and scoring over D. i can't agree with this. we have shown no interest in signing a top D man in FA and it is the worst position depth wise on the team. they're expensive to trade for and we need to get top tier D men in the draft and develop them.

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02-06-2013, 02:29 PM
  #42
henchman24
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Originally Posted by CalderKing21 View Post
as much as i am normally on board with drafting the flash and scoring over D. i can't agree with this. we have shown no interest in signing a top D man in FA and it is the worst position depth wise on the team. they're expensive to trade for and we need to get top tier D men in the draft and develop them.
I tend to agree with this, but also the Avs seem really crappy at developing defensemen.

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02-06-2013, 02:53 PM
  #43
CalderKing21
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
I tend to agree with this, but also the Avs seem really crappy at developing defensemen.
i think the main issue is they keep drafting puck moving types instead of guys who can help lock a guy up and their primary focus is on D.
too much finesse is liked amongst the Avs FO when they draft guys.
Siemens is the only guy who we've taken pretty high that is mostly a defense first and physical guy.

the others we've taken high have been puck moving, agile, non physical play types. they've also been on the smaller side.
i have no issue with smaller guys or finesse but you're best guys can't be all the same type or you bread in weakness.
if you're a defenseman in the NHL and your best asset is offense, when you struggle on offense you become pretty much worthless.
if you can defend your ass off and take away the other team's best guy(or at least slow him down) and be able to impact the game at times on offense then when you struggle in one you can make it for it by excelling at the other.

besides, you also have to remember that just a few years ago, we couldn't draft or develop goalies or center's either. now those are the biggest strengths of the organization from top to bottom.

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02-06-2013, 03:16 PM
  #44
henchman24
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Originally Posted by CalderKing21 View Post
besides, you also have to remember that just a few years ago, we couldn't draft or develop goalies or center's either. now those are the biggest strengths of the organization from top to bottom.
I agree with what you are saying for the most part, but I have never felt we couldn't develop forwards (including centers). Only 2 defensemen have been drafted by this organization and developed into top 4 by the organization. Liles and Shattenkirk, and Shattenkirk could be argued as he only really played a half season with the Avs.

I'm still not sure how well we do with goalies, but for the first time in seemingly forever we have a number of solid prospects. I think at least one will pan out (IMO Pickard will).

Impact players (top 6, top 4, starter or solid backup) Avs drafted and developed 2000-2009:

Forwards:
Svatos (2001) - top 6 until he was constantly injured, then a scrub
Jones (2003) - top 6 player when he isn't drunk
Wolski (2004) - top 6 when he cares
Stastny (2005) - top 6
Stewart (2006) - top 6 when he cares
Duchene (2009) - top 6
ROR (2009) - top 6

Defensemen:
Liles (2000) - top 4
Shattenkirk (2007) - IMO best defensemen drafted/somewhat developed since the organization was in Quebec

Goalies:
Budaj (2001) - solid backup, for goalies I consider that a success

Now we drafted Gilbert and Boychuk, but their development wasn't really with the Avs. Other fringe players like Sauer, Richardson, McCormick, etc. have come out, but I wouldn't call them real impact players.

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02-06-2013, 05:02 PM
  #45
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Have the Avs ever drafted and developed a star d-man, or not even a star, but a solid d-man

The only good d-man i can think of is Foote, but he was drafted and developed in Quebec.

Seems to me in Colorado they do a good job developing forwards not d-men. Having said that, If the Avs do get the #1 pick, they'll draft a forward (MacKinnon) even though they really should draft Jones.

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Old
02-06-2013, 05:08 PM
  #46
henchman24
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Have the Avs ever drafted and developed a star d-man, or not even a star, but a solid d-man
Liles is the closest I can think of.

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02-06-2013, 05:10 PM
  #47
CalderKing21
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
I agree with what you are saying for the most part, but I have never felt we couldn't develop forwards (including centers). Only 2 defensemen have been drafted by this organization and developed into top 4 by the organization. Liles and Shattenkirk, and Shattenkirk could be argued as he only really played a half season with the Avs.

I'm still not sure how well we do with goalies, but for the first time in seemingly forever we have a number of solid prospects. I think at least one will pan out (IMO Pickard will).

Impact players (top 6, top 4, starter or solid backup) Avs drafted and developed 2000-2009:

Forwards:
Svatos (2001) - top 6 until he was constantly injured, then a scrub
Jones (2003) - top 6 player when he isn't drunk
Wolski (2004) - top 6 when he cares
Stastny (2005) - top 6
Stewart (2006) - top 6 when he cares
Duchene (2009) - top 6
ROR (2009) - top 6

Defensemen:
Liles (2000) - top 4
Shattenkirk (2007) - IMO best defensemen drafted/somewhat developed since the organization was in Quebec

Goalies:
Budaj (2001) - solid backup, for goalies I consider that a success

Now we drafted Gilbert and Boychuk, but their development wasn't really with the Avs. Other fringe players like Sauer, Richardson, McCormick, etc. have come out, but I wouldn't call them real impact players.
i didn't say forward's though. i meant and specifically said centers.
Stastny was the only guy for awhile(before him you basically have to go back to Drury). then we hit gold in Duchene and ROR in the same draft, got Hishon in the draft, acquired Sgarbossa. we also have Malone and Olver who can provide depth, Heard,Condon & Smith in the pipeline.
we didn't have that type of depth before, not at the center position, that's partially why Duchene and O'Reilly made the team out of camp a few years back.

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Old
02-06-2013, 05:18 PM
  #48
Nihiliste
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We're night and day at developing forwards than we are with dmen. Even with acquiring EJ, the opportunity was there to put him in an environment to really succeed and we haven't done that.

I love Jones, but I hope the decision is out of our hands (i.e. that we don't get the first overall). I just don't think he will flourish the way he should here in Colorado. I would rather draft a Mackinnon/Barkov/Lindholm and trade a center for a top 3 dman. Obviously it all depends on where we end up but im pretty sure we're going to be drafting pretty damn high. And yeah Drouin would definitely be one of the top choices in that range.

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Old
02-06-2013, 05:22 PM
  #49
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Would barkov be a third line center?

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Old
02-06-2013, 05:23 PM
  #50
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interesting how the Avs have drafted forwards from the O with EVERY first draft pick since Pracey took over.

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