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Goaltending discussion thread (edit: Markstrom called up)

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Old
02-06-2013, 01:05 PM
  #26
blink
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Devils fan here in peace.

I see lots of people saying things like "needing to have Markstrom play a full year in the AHL" before promoting him.

Alright fair enough. Problem is that he isn't playing a full year in the AHL. Not even close. Why is DGM playing so much down there?

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02-06-2013, 01:10 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
we might. but no reason for the OP to call for the demotion of clemmer after last night.
Knowing the OP poster from what I've read of his posts, I think it's a culmination of his time here, and last night just cements his opinion.

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02-06-2013, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by blink View Post
Devils fan here in peace.

I see lots of people saying things like "needing to have Markstrom play a full year in the AHL" before promoting him.

Alright fair enough. Problem is that he isn't playing a full year in the AHL. Not even close. Why is DGM playing so much down there?
How isn't he playing a full season?

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02-06-2013, 01:14 PM
  #29
RainingRats
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
How isn't he playing a full season?
I'm guessing he thinks playing a full season means he gets almost all of the starts (?) Markstrom has 30, DGM has 18, out of 46 games.

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02-06-2013, 01:25 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blink View Post
Devils fan here in peace.

I see lots of people saying things like "needing to have Markstrom play a full year in the AHL" before promoting him.

Alright fair enough. Problem is that he isn't playing a full year in the AHL. Not even close. Why is DGM playing so much down there?
Since Dec 1st, DGM has started 8 of 27 games and relieved Markstrom in one other. And in 4 of those cases, he was playing either the middle or last game of a 3 in 3. In 2 other instances, he played the game immediately following a poor performance by Markstrom. Finally, Markstrom is winless and actually pretty terrible playing at Houston, so DGM got that start Monday night.

So, DGM isn't playing a lot recently. He played a lot early in the season because Markstrom was struggling badly. He also happens to be very very good.

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02-06-2013, 01:32 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
we might. but no reason for the OP to call for the demotion of clemmer after last night.
I agree, Clemmer wasn't bad last night. I'm not sure what all this over-reacting is for. I've been a Clemmer nay-sayer for a while now, for the right reasons, but i thought he had a good game last night. Come on people, no need to hate after that effort.

The first goal was clearly tipped off the slapshot by Ellerby. Maybe you'd expect him to stop that, but a change of direction that quick is tough to stop.

The second goal had some mighty thick traffic in front of the net. It is hard to stop what you can't see. D needs to step up and get more physical and push those guys out of there (which should happen more with Gudbs coming back).

Third goal Little scored was point blank alone in the slot, and ripped it right top corner. Not many goalies are going to stop that.

Clemmer made a couple big saves last night that kept us in the game, I was impressed. He also seemed to be working on improving his positioning when someone has the puck behind the net. I noticed he would go down on his pads inside the net, behind the blue paint so he could get a better, more stable look behind the net. Probably not the technique I would teach, but it seemed to work for him and make him look more secure so he wasn't looking everywhere, then go nuts.

The one thing I would like to see improvement is his rebound control. He still let a few juicy rebounds out there on long shots that could of lead to disaster. Would like to see him absorb those better.


I think everyone needs to take a chill pill at the moment. Clemmers play last night does not warrent this kind of panic. Lets let Marky play in the AHL and develop, but if injuries come, or bad play develops then call up the Monster.

For now, even I am satisfied with Clemmer.

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02-06-2013, 01:40 PM
  #32
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One thing to consider re: the OP's post:

If you do trade off Clemmensen or waive him and he gets claimed, your depth at goalie is hurt pretty badly. If you get rid of Clem and then Theo or Markstrom gets hurt, you are looking at a career AHL'er (albeit a good one) in DGM and nothing after that.

Clemmensen isn't losing games for the Panthers, IMO. The defense needs to get better and the 5 on 5 play has been awful. I just don't see how Markstrom instantly makes everyone else on the team better. He hasn't done it in the AHL, why would he do it in up there?*

*Not saying he isn't a stud, he is. But even with his (and DGM's) outstanding play, the Rampage still sit in 13th place in the West.

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02-06-2013, 01:45 PM
  #33
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Wonder if the Panthers sign Gaiduchenko who seems to be doing decent in the KHL, to be sent to San Antonio. Guy should already be like 21 or something and I know he came to camp last season. This would address our depth if we trade Clemmensen.

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02-06-2013, 01:47 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RampageNate View Post
One thing to consider re: the OP's post:

If you do trade off Clemmensen or waive him and he gets claimed, your depth at goalie is hurt pretty badly. If you get rid of Clem and then Theo or Markstrom gets hurt, you are looking at a career AHL'er (albeit a good one) in DGM and nothing after that.

Clemmensen isn't losing games for the Panthers, IMO. The defense needs to get better and the 5 on 5 play has been awful. I just don't see how Markstrom instantly makes everyone else on the team better. He hasn't done it in the AHL, why would he do it in up there?*

*Not saying he isn't a stud, he is. But even with his (and DGM's) outstanding play, the Rampage still sit in 13th place in the West.

Markstrom doesnt instantly make the team better. He does bring Shutout ability between the pipes, something honestly clemmer just doesnt. He gives us the chance to win 1-0 or 2-1.

How many shutouts does he have with the Rampage this year ?

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02-06-2013, 01:47 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Panteras View Post
Wonder if the Panthers sign Gaiduchenko who seems to be doing decent in the KHL, to be sent to San Antonio. Guy should already be like 21 or something and I know he came to camp last season. This would address our depth if we trade Clemmensen.
Why would he leave the KHL to play in the AHL? Also, depth in quality, not depth in roster players.

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02-06-2013, 01:51 PM
  #36
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I agree, Clemmer wasn't bad last night. I'm not sure what all this over-reacting is for. I've been a Clemmer nay-sayer for a while now, for the right reasons, but i thought he had a good game last night. Come on people, no need to hate after that effort.

The first goal was clearly tipped off the slapshot by Ellerby. Maybe you'd expect him to stop that, but a change of direction that quick is tough to stop.

The second goal had some mighty thick traffic in front of the net. It is hard to stop what you can't see. D needs to step up and get more physical and push those guys out of there (which should happen more with Gudbs coming back).

Third goal Little scored was point blank alone in the slot, and ripped it right top corner. Not many goalies are going to stop that.

Clemmer made a couple big saves last night that kept us in the game, I was impressed. He also seemed to be working on improving his positioning when someone has the puck behind the net. I noticed he would go down on his pads inside the net, behind the blue paint so he could get a better, more stable look behind the net. Probably not the technique I would teach, but it seemed to work for him and make him look more secure so he wasn't looking everywhere, then go nuts.

The one thing I would like to see improvement is his rebound control. He still let a few juicy rebounds out there on long shots that could of lead to disaster. Would like to see him absorb those better.


I think everyone needs to take a chill pill at the moment. Clemmers play last night does not warrent this kind of panic. Lets let Marky play in the AHL and develop, but if injuries come, or bad play develops then call up the Monster.

For now, even I am satisfied with Clemmer.
Clemmer is horrible!! If Theo was in net, we would've won 2-0. Fact is, he should've made those saves. Regardless of whether or not the first goal was tipped,Clemmer should have stopped it. It wasn't tipped right in front of Clemmer, it was tipped right after it was shot. He saw the shot the entire way and let the team down.
The second goal was 5-hole and he should've stopped it. No excuses.

I am not a fan of him. He should be traded or waived. Marky is ready for the NHL and deserves more of a chance then Clemmer. I am happy with the Panthers play of late, but we should've had 2 points last night and a 3 game winning streak.

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02-06-2013, 01:54 PM
  #37
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Clemmensen wasn't terrific last night but you have to be kidding me to think that he the sole reason of why we lose the game. I'll admit I was a bit nervous last night with him in net compared to Theo because of the movements he was making with his saves. However, I never once thought of him as why we received the loss. That can be blamed on us either not having enough offense or certain defensemen aren't making such wonderful decisions.

As a backup, he's fine. Could there be a better one? Sure, there's quite a few. He's shown us that he can play well and steal games for us before. This was only his second start of the season. I'm sure with some work, he'll have better games as the season goes on.

I wouldn't be so quick to bring Markstrom up yet because who says he can be a savior? There's a reason why he's playing in the AHL to develop. Making a choice to bring a propsect up full-time is a huge key to how they develop as a whole. I would hope to see him get a few starts in towards the end of the season depending on our playoff situation to prepare him to hopefully be on the big club next season.

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02-06-2013, 02:00 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
Yes, I think giving up 2 goals on the road in regulation is good enough to win games. I'm sorry you disagree. If giving up one goal is the expectation then prepare to never have clemmer or theo or markstrom meet your expectations.

Markstrom WILL be playing at the NHL level this season. It's unnecessary to demote Clemmer to make room for him right now. If you trade him or theo, then okay. But goaltending is not a problem. We're getting better each game. The Rangers and the Kings are struggling and they have the two of the top goalies in the league. It has a lot more to do with sloppy play and poor decision making than with Theo or Clemmer.

It may not screw him up but the whole point in developing prospects is to refine their game. He can work on positioning, rebound control, etc. much more easily at the AHL level than he can at the NHL level where play is much faster. Tallon isn't shy about bringing guys up or giving them a chance. They must want him to get more starts in down there and keep working on things, dominating, and getting his confidence sky high.

The biggest problem we have is scoring goals/goals against 5 on 5. We're dead last. GAA is terrible too but again, I wouldn't put it on the goalies.
I don't think we're disagreeing on clemmenson's ability all that much. You think he is serviceable, and that's how I view him. I'd just rather have someone who has the potential to be better than just serviceable.

I'm not panicking about our goaltending, because there are other issues this team also needs to address. I just feel that having Markstrom as our backup or 1a/1b with Theo makes more sense than having a clear backup.

Theo is not young, he could use more time between games, and I think it makes sense to keep him fresh. The way I see the goaltending situation now, Theo has to play a large majority of the games and I just don't think that gives us the best chance to win.

I also feel that Markstrom has had enough time to work on his game through almost three seasons down in the AHL. I doubt he will have much more to learn by playing the rest of this season down there.

Adding all of the factors above together, and it just makes sense to bring him in to at least see what happens. You seem to think Markstrom will play in the NHL this year anyways, so why not now? How or when do you see that happening? When we're out of the playoff picture?

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Old
02-06-2013, 02:04 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
Markstrom doesnt instantly make the team better. He does bring Shutout ability between the pipes, something honestly clemmer just doesnt. He gives us the chance to win 1-0 or 2-1.

How many shutouts does he have with the Rampage this year ?
Three.

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02-06-2013, 02:16 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Pantherfan12 View Post
Clemmer is horrible!! If Theo was in net, we would've won 2-0. Fact is, he should've made those saves. Regardless of whether or not the first goal was tipped,Clemmer should have stopped it. It wasn't tipped right in front of Clemmer, it was tipped right after it was shot. He saw the shot the entire way and let the team down.
The second goal was 5-hole and he should've stopped it. No excuses.

I am not a fan of him. He should be traded or waived. Marky is ready for the NHL and deserves more of a chance then Clemmer. I am happy with the Panthers play of late, but we should've had 2 points last night and a 3 game winning streak.
I highly doubt Theo would of had a shutout last night, but that is just my opinion vs yours, because we will never know.

Clemmer had a split second to change is total reaction towards that first goal. Wheeler is a big boy and can hammer the puck. That as not Clemmers fault. Ellerby should of gotten his stick out of the way, let your goalie see the shot the whole way cleanly and take the body. Definitely not Clemmers fault.

Like I said in the post your quoted, the second goal Clemmer was screened. It is very hard to stop what you don't see. Defense needs to clear the front of the net there.

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02-06-2013, 02:17 PM
  #41
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I kinda feel bad reading these threads. It's almost like trying not to stare at a car crash. you get sucked in.

Desperate fans thinking irrationally because they cannot wrap their heads around the whole team concept. They overthink, forget about the whole picture, then focus and shift blame to make the noise in their head go away. Rinse and repeat.

Clemmer should have made some saves, but he made some BIIIIG saves for us as well.

Lets view try to view a image on the computer not as a whole but pixel by pixel...because that makes sense..right?

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02-06-2013, 02:23 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by ursavolta View Post
I kinda feel bad reading these threads. It's almost like trying not to stare at a car crash. you get sucked in.

Desperate fans thinking irrationally because they cannot wrap their heads around the whole team concept. They overthink, forget about the whole picture, then focus and shift blame to make the noise in their head go away. Rinse and repeat.

Clemmer should have made some saves, but he made some BIIIIG saves for us as well.

Lets view try to view a image on the computer not as a whole.. but pixel by pixel.
Its a legitimate debate, where both sides are making good arguments, and perhaps opening each others minds to ther views.

I dont see this as desperate fans or desperate posts. Just fans looking at ways to improve an improving team.

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02-06-2013, 02:46 PM
  #43
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I dont think either of our goalies have played great this year. I don't think Theodore had done anything stupendous or stolen us a game. It just makes Markstroms entrance next year all the better in terms of timing imo.

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02-06-2013, 02:57 PM
  #44
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I've supported Clemmensen before so it's not as though I hate him.

With that said, I don't see how anyone could possibly think he played well last night.
He allowed only 2 goals in regulation because the Jets didn't really create much in terms of offense.

He made a couple of nice saves. One on Antropov and he also had a good one at the end of the 2nd period on Thorburn imo.

With that said, the first goal was weak (don't care if Ellerby deflected that).
The other goals I won't blame him for although I didn't consider them unstoppable.

At the end of the day, his rebounds were terrible. How many shots without screens from the blueline did he give up terribly long rebounds on? I saw him bobble a shot that hit him square in the glove.

I said at the beginning of the game that he looked shaky before he even faced a shot on the GDT. Fortunately, it took over half a period for the Jets to get a shot off. Their first shot hit the post.

A couple of Clemmensen's "saves" got behind him.

With that said, I think he's a better goalie than he's shown thus far. Let's not forget that he's a big reason why we made the playoffs last year. He went 14-6-6 with good #'s.

For what it's worth, I think we all knew our goalies wouldn't play like they did last year and they haven't put up the same type of #'s (not all their fault of course).

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02-06-2013, 03:03 PM
  #45
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Why would he leave the KHL to play in the AHL? Also, depth in quality, not depth in roster players.
Why would he not? Do we know what his aspirations are? Maybe he does want to stay in Russia all his life, or maybe he wants to try NA and he knows he ain't gonna be in the NHL even as a back up anywhere off the bat, therefote the AHL is the logical place to start for a young goalie like him to try to make it in NA. He's still young and is a beast at least physically, if I'm not mistaken he's Markstrom's size. Like I said he seems to be doing decent in arguably the 2nd best league in the world, I take it as both a quality and quantity depth move. Clemmensen gets traded, we have Markie and Theodore with the Cats and Sergei/DGM in the AHL why not?

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02-06-2013, 03:05 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by RampageNate View Post
One thing to consider re: the OP's post:

If you do trade off Clemmensen or waive him and he gets claimed, your depth at goalie is hurt pretty badly. If you get rid of Clem and then Theo or Markstrom gets hurt, you are looking at a career AHL'er (albeit a good one) in DGM and nothing after that.

Clemmensen isn't losing games for the Panthers, IMO. The defense needs to get better and the 5 on 5 play has been awful. I just don't see how Markstrom instantly makes everyone else on the team better. He hasn't done it in the AHL, why would he do it in up there?*

*Not saying he isn't a stud, he is. But even with his (and DGM's) outstanding play, the Rampage still sit in 13th place in the West.
Confidence. Markstrom next call-up...he will not be going back down again unless they give him this one game call-up BS to get him work.

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02-06-2013, 03:07 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by RampageNate View Post
One thing to consider re: the OP's post:

If you do trade off Clemmensen or waive him and he gets claimed, your depth at goalie is hurt pretty badly. If you get rid of Clem and then Theo or Markstrom gets hurt, you are looking at a career AHL'er (albeit a good one) in DGM and nothing after that.

Clemmensen isn't losing games for the Panthers, IMO. The defense needs to get better and the 5 on 5 play has been awful. I just don't see how Markstrom instantly makes everyone else on the team better. He hasn't done it in the AHL, why would he do it in up there?*

*Not saying he isn't a stud, he is. But even with his (and DGM's) outstanding play, the Rampage still sit in 13th place in the West.
Maybe the Panthers have more talent than the Rampage/the Rampage would be the worst team in the AHL without the goaltending.

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02-06-2013, 03:10 PM
  #48
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Why would he not? Do we know what his aspirations are? Maybe he does want to stay in Russia all his life, or maybe he wants to try NA and he knows he ain't gonna be in the NHL even as a back up anywhere off the bat, therefote the AHL is the logical place to start for a young goalie like him to try to make it in NA. He's still young and is a beast at least physically, if I'm not mistaken he's Markstrom's size. Like I said he seems to be doing decent in arguably the 2nd best league in the world, I take it as both a quality and quantity depth move. Clemmensen gets traded, we have Markie and Theodore with the Cats and Sergei/DGM in the AHL why not?
He probably makes a lot more in Russia right now and I don't think he can even get out of his contract to come here mid season. Maybe next year?

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02-06-2013, 03:14 PM
  #49
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He probably makes a lot more in Russia right now and I don't think he can even get out of his contract to come here mid season. Maybe next year?
Its also a contract the Rampage/Panthers don't have to pay. He's getting free development time from the FL perspective.

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02-06-2013, 03:25 PM
  #50
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I've read all the arguments on here, and my trump card is this, trust in DT. He knows what he is doing. If he wants to keep Markstrom in the AHL, I trust in his decision.

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