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10-13-1. "A bunch of donkeys on skates"

View Poll Results: What should the Caps do?
Tank and trade UFA's 1 20.00%
Tank and re-tool 4 80.00%
Trade futures to right the ship 0 0%
Stand pat, hoping they pull it together. 0 0%
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Old
02-06-2013, 12:43 PM
  #126
apollo71426
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all of you are fools. we are just going through a rough patch. ; )

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02-06-2013, 12:44 PM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
The point isn't to sell off every asset that has value, but to sell off expiring players plus a few others with value to change the complexion of the team going forward and increase cap flexibility.

It would be more of a reload than a re-build.

Let's say you tank this year, get a Mackinnon/Barkov/Lindholm/Monahan and several additional draft picks in what is a loaded draft. There's a scoring line center of the future, plus a loaded farm system. You could easily use that farm system plus the extra cap flexibility to have a better team next year with a completely different complexion, yet still with Ovechkin, Backstrom, Alzner, Carlson, etc.
All that is, is tinkering....selling off a few marginal players who are on short term deals doesn't change the complexion of the team any more than the last 4 years of offseason tinkering/retooling. They need a MAJOR CORE trade to bring IN good players/teammates.

Understand this, they're NOT going to tank on purpose. The last major selloff when Bondra and others left won't be happening again. This is a team with a full house of season ticketholders. A tank and selloff on a large scale will completely torpedo that full building.

If they're floundering badly at the deadline then yes, I think guys like Ribeiro may very well be moved for picks and prospects (assuming they don't want to extend him and/or Ribs has indicated he's interested in testing the market).

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02-06-2013, 12:45 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by discobob View Post
...at this point, I would heartily endorse this approach. We are pretty much at the point where this season is shot. Give it another 5 games, and unless we significantly improve, I'd say that it is definitely shot. The inability of this team to find a solution at #2C has been beyond frustrating over the past 4-5 years. We keep trying to patch the position with leftovers. This year we finally made a move, but the player is close to the sunset of his career. If we could get one of the top centers in this draft....we will set the team up for a push in 1-2 years with Kuz and Forsberg coming in....
They actually have two solutions at 2C now, what with Backstrom playing like one.

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02-06-2013, 12:45 PM
  #129
Ridley Simon
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
No, but if it's true, isn't that multiple players and/or coaches he's supposedly butted heads with?

Do you think Ovechkin is a locker room problem? Nobody says so, but they'd be fools if they did...
God....is Ovechkin turning into Jagr?

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02-06-2013, 12:46 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
No, but if it's true, isn't that multiple players and/or coaches he's supposedly butted heads with?

Do you think Ovechkin is a locker room problem? Nobody says so, but they'd be fools if they did...

It's Ovy's room, we know that. We've all heard that Ribs has been kind of a dick his entire career. I can see how this clash would happen, especially since Ribs is the leading scorer on the team and Ovy is struggling.

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02-06-2013, 12:48 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by apollo71426 View Post
all of you are fools. we are just going through a rough patch. ; )
Look up the definition of insanity, will you please?

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02-06-2013, 12:48 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by discobob View Post
...at this point, I would heartily endorse this approach. We are pretty much at the point where this season is shot. Give it another 5 games, and unless we significantly improve, I'd say that it is definitely shot. The inability of this team to find a solution at #2C has been beyond frustrating over the past 4-5 years. We keep trying to patch the position with leftovers. This year we finally made a move, but the player is close to the sunset of his career. If we could get one of the top centers in this draft....we will set the team up for a push in 1-2 years with Kuz and Forsberg coming in....
I think thursday's game with the Pens will be our north star as to this season:

If we can win... we will make the playoffs.

Lose... and Adam better save his e-mails and notes from meetings, as George will do anything to deflect blame.

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02-06-2013, 12:50 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by MW6 View Post
This era, the young guns era, was built the wrong way and from making to many bad draft choiches.

1st round picks since 2002 (the young guns):

2002:
Eminger (D) 12th
Semin (LW) 13th
Gordon (RW) 17th
2003:
Fehr (RW) 18th
2004:
Ovechkin (LW) 1st
Schultz (D) 27th
Green (D) 29th
(Bourque LW 33rd)
2005:
Pokulok (D) 14th
Finley (D) 27th
2006:
Backstrom (C) 4th
Varlamov (G) 23rd
(Neuvirth G 34th)

Drafted by positions:
Goalies: 1 (+ Neuvirth) An OK amount, but since it takes longer for goalies to develop he should've picked one in the earliest part of the re-build.
Defensemen: 5. One currently a regular in the NHL
Centers: 1. When you build a team, you start down the middle, picking one center, 4 years into your rebuild, is just lunacy
Wingers: 4 (+ Bourque) GM's 5 first 1st round picks were 1 D and 4 wingers.

And these are the players this team is/was supposed to be built around. They were given time and oppurtunities to develop and form the core of this team and it failed.

Lately GMGM's drafting has been better, Carlson, Alzner, Kuznetsov, Johansson all coming in the first round and only Godfrey (34th) and Gustafsson 21st busting.
Unfortunately The Caps have only drafted 3 times in the 1st or 2nd round the last three years, which means there's a gap in young NHL'ers coming in, thus is why I'm for the sell off and bringing in young pieces and picks.
I can't believe I'm the only one to point this out: You're claiming the rebuild started in 2002, which makes most of what you said totally laughable. The rebuild started in 2004. He drafted Backstrom two years into the rebuild, rather than four. The goalie issue has been covered. The 2005 draft was really the only bad one, and still the most lamentable aspect of that was how much the lottery process screwed them.

McPhee's lack of a coherent vision for his team and the culture his teams have displayed are serious reasons to fire him. His drafting and what he's done with the team's scouting are, if anything, reasons to keep him.

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02-06-2013, 12:50 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by apollo71426 View Post
all of you are fools. we are just going through a rough patch. ; )
Maybe... 14 years of rough patches is enough, eh?

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Old
02-06-2013, 12:50 PM
  #135
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
All that is, is tinkering....selling off a few marginal players who are on short term deals doesn't change the complexion of the team any more than the last 4 years of offseason tinkering/retooling. They need a MAJOR CORE trade to bring IN good players/teammates.

Understand this, they're NOT going to tank on purpose. The last major selloff when Bondra and others left won't be happening again. This is a team with a full house of season ticketholders. A tank and selloff on a large scale will completely torpedo that full building.

If they're floundering badly at the deadline then yes, I think guys like Ribeiro may very well be moved for picks and prospects (assuming they don't want to extend him and/or Ribs has indicated he's interested in testing the market).
If next year there's 3-4 new players in each of the top 6 and bottom 6, that's tinkering?

I'd go with 6-8 new forwards and 2-3 new defensemen, plus a vet goalie. That's a 9-12 player turnover, which is half the roster.

That's not tinkering.

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Old
02-06-2013, 12:51 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by marcel snapshot View Post
It's spooky - we are running the 94-95 lockout playbook, almost to the tee. We started like crap then, and still made the playoffs.
We were 6-14-1 21 games into the 2007-2008 season as well, and managed to right that ship and scrape our way into winning the division. It's highly unlikely, but not impossible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgroban View Post
A new GM needs to be brought in real soon.

I suspect that the Caps could be sellers, and I do not know if George knows how to sell. History says he does not and won't.
What are you talking about? History says that George is excellent at selling assets.
  • Adam Oates for Maxime Oullet, 2002 1st round pick (used to trade up to get Semin), 2002 2nd round pick, 2002 3rd round pick.
  • Robert Lang for Tomas Fleischmann, 2004 1st round pick (Mike Green), 2006 4th round pick.
  • Jeff Friesen for the #52 pick in the 2006 draft (just months after trading the #67 pick to get him).
  • Tim Kennedy for a 2006 6th round pick (Mathieu Perreault).
  • Sergei Gonchar for Shaone Morrisonn, a 2004 1st round pick (Jeff Schultz), and a 2004 2nd round pick.
  • Peter Bondra for Brooks Laich and a 2005 2nd round pick.
  • Brian Sutherby for a 2009 2nd round pick.
  • Richard Zednik for a 2007 2nd round pick (Theo Ruth, later traded for Sergei Fedorov, and just months after he was acquired for a 3rd round pick).

Semin, Green, Laich, Fleischmann, Fedorov, Schultz, Perreault, and Morrisonn all were a direct result of him selling off assets during the last firesale. That's basically half of our playoff teams in 2008 and 2009. Four of those players are still with the team today.

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Old
02-06-2013, 12:53 PM
  #137
Liberati0n
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
No, but if it's true, isn't that multiple players and/or coaches he's supposedly butted heads with?

Do you think Ovechkin is a locker room problem? Nobody says so, but they'd be fools if they did...
If they're having problems I think it's on Ribeiro. Whether or not he's actually said/done anything, being that much of a ********** is a legitimate reason for people to have problems with you. Good hockey player though.

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02-06-2013, 12:55 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
We were 6-14-1 21 games into the 2007-2008 season as well, and managed to right that ship and scrape our way into winning the division. It's highly unlikely, but not impossible.


What are you talking about? History says that George is excellent at selling assets.
  • Adam Oates for Maxime Oullet, 2002 1st round pick (used to trade up to get Semin), 2002 2nd round pick, 2002 3rd round pick.
  • Robert Lang for Tomas Fleischmann, 2004 1st round pick (Mike Green), 2006 4th round pick.
  • Jeff Friesen for the #52 pick in the 2006 draft (just months after trading the #67 pick to get him).
  • Tim Kennedy for a 2006 6th round pick (Mathieu Perreault).
  • Sergei Gonchar for Shaone Morrisonn, a 2004 1st round pick (Jeff Schultz), and a 2004 2nd round pick.
  • Peter Bondra for Brooks Laich and a 2005 2nd round pick.
  • Brian Sutherby for a 2009 2nd round pick.
  • Richard Zednik for a 2007 2nd round pick (Theo Ruth, later traded for Sergei Fedorov, and just months after he was acquired for a 3rd round pick).

Semin, Green, Laich, Fleischmann, Fedorov, Schultz, Perreault, and Morrisonn all were a direct result of him selling off assets during the last firesale. That's basically half of our playoff teams in 2008 and 2009. Four of those players are still with the team today.
I thought Poile brought in Oates.

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02-06-2013, 12:56 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
If next year there's 3-4 new players in each of the top 6 and bottom 6, that's tinkering?

I'd go with 6-8 new forwards and 2-3 new defensemen, plus a vet goalie. That's a 9-12 player turnover, which is half the roster.

That's not tinkering.
Please tell me who you're suggesting they dump? Which 60% of the top 6 (and bottom 6) are you suggesting be moved....

It's easy to throw out imaginary numbers like "3-4 players in each of the top and bottom 6". Actually doing it and doing it WELL is another thing.

Do we even have the assets or cap space to make the trades and signings you're suggesting? I don't see it. And even then....still doesn't answer the biggest issue on the team. How do you turn around Ovechkin? This team isn't winning a Cup with him playing like this.

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02-06-2013, 12:57 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
I thought Poile brought in Oates.
Brought in, yes that was Poile. It was McPhee that traded him to Philadelphia.

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02-06-2013, 12:57 PM
  #141
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If it's true, at least Ribeiro produces when he's having issues. Maybe that'll rub off on some of the other Caps.

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02-06-2013, 01:02 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
They need a MAJOR CORE trade to bring IN good players/teammates.
Who do you get rid of to make that point, though, assuming Ovechkin is off the table? Carlson is the closest thing to a somewhat reasonable target but not without a fairly capable defenseman coming back. In which case it's probably more of a lateral move where they give up the best player (or at least the one with the most upside). The big problem it seems to me is the country club atmosphere and lack of leadership. Bringing in different secondary leadership doesn't change much. It would need to be coupled with other smaller moves that threaten everyone's place or a change in GM.

I'd sadly probably side with Ribeiro. He probably is a dick but based on his comments to the media to this point he seems like he may be in an Arnott sort of situation (in awe of the permissiveness that pervades the org.).

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02-06-2013, 01:04 PM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
I sit here and read some people suggesting a rebuild. Sorry? WTF are you people thinking? This is not a team that needs to tank and rebuild.

This is a franchise that needs to figure out one single thing to get it back on track. How do you turn around Ovechkin's career?



There will be no tanking on purpose this time around, but I do believe a major trade needs to happen, the GM needs to be fired and a new culture and vision must be adopted. The roster isn't going to be torn down and rebuilt at this point though....


The Caps won't be sellers unless they're eliminated from playoff contention and even then, it will be the short term players who might be sold off.



Anyone else hearing rumors that Ovy and Ribeiro aren't getting along?
As always I defer to those of you with more knowledge of NHL dealings, but at this point what benefit would a signicant trade do for this team now, as it is currently constructed?

Good or Bad, Oates had zero time to implement his style of play prior to this abbreviated season. Whoever is added is going to need a stretch of games for themselves to get aclimated to Oates style, and the players on the team will have to develop chemistry with the new player. So how will adding a new player help this team with so few games left in the season?

Why not ride out this season and save significant front office and roster changes for the offseason? At that time there will be a proper free agency with a number of players hiting the market that had their big contracts bought out with the NHL version of amesty available.

By waiting for the season to end a new GM can re-tool, not rebuild, this team in his image and have the time and assests in FA to do it properly.

As bad as things appear right now, with the season so short and a HC with no real time to implement his system properly, just seems that a significant trade during the season will not have a positive affect.

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02-06-2013, 01:13 PM
  #144
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Another Arnott type situation?

Sounds like a standard A-7 scenario.

Facked.

And you thought it was all Semin!!!

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02-06-2013, 01:15 PM
  #145
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Year Off for Barkov

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02-06-2013, 01:15 PM
  #146
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Maybe they should get Arnott back. His agent says he's ready to play

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02-06-2013, 01:18 PM
  #147
RandyHolt
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Maybe Arnott and Riberio can form an alliance and put us out of our misery

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02-06-2013, 01:19 PM
  #148
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I thought Poile brought in Oates.
He did. He made that trade way too late and most believe he did it to save his job. In the long run, we had Oates for a few years and a few games out of Ranford. Tocchet left for Phoenix after the season as a UFA. I fear GMGM might do the same this year if we continue to slide.

As for the season, I'm going to say we're done if we lose to Florida.

Go Caps!

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02-06-2013, 01:20 PM
  #149
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Year Off for Barkov
That has a nice ring to it!

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02-06-2013, 01:20 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by WetHog View Post
As always I defer to those of you with more knowledge of NHL dealings, but at this point what benefit would a signicant trade do for this team now, as it is currently constructed?

Good or Bad, Oates had zero time to implement his style of play prior to this abbreviated season. Whoever is added is going to need a stretch of games for themselves to get aclimated to Oates style, and the players on the team will have to develop chemistry with the new player. So how will adding a new player help this team with so few games left in the season?

Why not ride out this season and save significant front office and roster changes for the offseason? At that time there will be a proper free agency with a number of players hiting the market that had their big contracts bought out with the NHL version of amesty available.

By waiting for the season to end a new GM can re-tool, not rebuild, this team in his image and have the time and assests in FA to do it properly.

As bad as things appear right now, with the season so short and a HC with no real time to implement his system properly, just seems that a significant trade during the season will not have a positive affect.
Unless its a goalie. (yes, Luongo)

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