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Old
02-06-2013, 02:31 AM
  #526
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To bad we got nothing for Messam
It's nothing but an obvious salary dump to open up even more cap space for free agency. Doesn't mean i agree with it, though. I think if given a chance to play as much as he has in the past, Messam will outperform Charles.

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02-06-2013, 02:47 AM
  #527
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I do not want Kyle Koch on this team.

That is all.

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02-06-2013, 10:26 AM
  #528
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Messam was a Canadian...they have value in this League.

Not buying the cap space issue either. There has to be more to this...Hervey couldn't be that daft.
How about him wanting out? Between his tweet about having the best agent shortly after the trade, his cap hit and the fact that we have Hugh Charles this move makes perfect since.

And there is 8 teams in this league. When you only have 7 options in the first place you aren't going to get a kings ransom for players that you have to move.

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02-06-2013, 10:32 AM
  #529
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Why do all the media wags and the Esks continue to talk about the Messam deal as a "trade"?

In literal terms I guess it is, but trading a starter with a known skillset and upside for a 6th round pick is strictly a dump.

More questionable is how Hervey feels the two deals yesterday "kind of fit together".

Anytime you trade prostarters for feedstock you don't necessarily improve your club. I keep asking this but what do we have in the backfield now? Hugh Charles and....

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02-06-2013, 10:34 AM
  #530
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Originally Posted by Auguste Escoffier View Post
I do not want Kyle Koch on this team.

That is all.
I don't know theres a fan on this board that does. I only cite that due to how obvious that this guys body of work is underwhelming and one of the weakest links on the club for a longtime. With the club being immediately better anytime Koch has been out with injury.

Would love to see some of these obvious moves done. Isn't it obvious?

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02-06-2013, 10:37 AM
  #531
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Why do all the media wags and the Esks continue to talk about the Messam deal as a "trade"?

In literal terms I guess it is, but trading a starter with a known skillset and upside for a 6th round pick is strictly a dump.

More questionable is how Hervey feels the two deals yesterday "kind of fit together".

Anytime you trade prostarters for feedstock you don't necessarily improve your club. I keep asking this but what do we have in the backfield now? Hugh Charles and....
Our only other RB is Calvin McCarty. So now we've got two RB's of similar size. Messam made our RB corpse versatile.

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02-06-2013, 10:41 AM
  #532
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Why do all the media wags and the Esks continue to talk about the Messam deal as a "trade"?

In literal terms I guess it is, but trading a starter with a known skillset and upside for a 6th round pick is strictly a dump.

More questionable is how Hervey feels the two deals yesterday "kind of fit together".

Anytime you trade prostarters for feedstock you don't necessarily improve your club. I keep asking this but what do we have in the backfield now? Hugh Charles and....
I don't know I've heard pretty much everyone refer to it as a dump. Gregor and Rishaug said as much yesterday, Neilson/Fraser this morning.

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02-06-2013, 10:42 AM
  #533
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Moneyguy

Any word on who is a potential college RB that they could/are targeting?

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02-06-2013, 10:45 AM
  #534
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Correct me if I'm wrong but was Messam terrible last year? I don't see the big deal, Hugh Charles was great last year for us

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02-06-2013, 10:47 AM
  #535
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Correct me if I'm wrong but was Messam terrible last year? I don't see the big deal, Hugh Charles was great last year for us
His confidence was definitely shot. Got cut by the Dolphins and came back and developed a new role with his former team as a 2nd stringer. I just don't feel comfortable with McCarty being our sole option after Charles.

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02-06-2013, 10:48 AM
  #536
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Correct me if I'm wrong but was Messam terrible last year? I don't see the big deal, Hugh Charles was great last year for us
I think the problem is the nature of football and the value of players in that sport vs. hockey and the value of players.

Frankly speaking football players (by in large) don't generate much in terms of return when they are traded, where as hockey is the exact opposite, so it gives us the false sense that something should be more then it is, perhaps.

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02-06-2013, 11:14 AM
  #537
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Next move...Kyle Koch. Please....
he should have been one of the first players released. if the esks are happy with him, I either have to question their ability to judge talent, or I really have to get some of you to explain to me why he should still have a job.
I just don't see it.

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02-06-2013, 11:22 AM
  #538
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Exactly what I said earlier about Messam. Charles has won the starters job. You can't have a backup making what Messam is making, and he can't play special teams. Again, your salary structure has to be relative to the value of the players on it.
and Hervey probably doesn't want to pay an all Star Canadian running back Grant Shaw type money. lol

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02-06-2013, 11:27 AM
  #539
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Originally Posted by Chooch View Post
Our only other RB is Calvin McCarty. So now we've got two RB's of similar size. Messam made our RB corpse versatile.
Thanks, how could I forget. Wait, I know how, he was used in that capacity so sparingly. Least he's Canadian and also on special teams.

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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I don't know I've heard pretty much everyone refer to it as a dump. Gregor and Rishaug said as much yesterday, Neilson/Fraser this morning.
Most of what I've read and the daily rags are calling it trade. So is Hervey, semantics, yeah, but kind of irks me. This was a dump pure and simple cept that doesn't come across as well to the fanbase.

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Originally Posted by 240SX93 View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but was Messam terrible last year? I don't see the big deal, Hugh Charles was great last year for us
Charles was good, but a very limited option when we don't have a powerback. If Charles is your one threat pony he ain't gonna get much done. Need somebody else in the backfield with him. I don't think McCarty is really that guy anymore. He's plateaued.

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02-06-2013, 11:44 AM
  #540
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and Hervey probably doesn't want to pay an all Star Canadian running back Grant Shaw type money. lol
Have to believe Shaw will perform all 3 kicking disciplines this year and going forward. He has a strong leg. Now he just needs some confidence experience and maturity. They obviously feel he is their guy going forward.

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02-06-2013, 11:45 AM
  #541
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Messam wasn't exactly that great last year.

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02-06-2013, 11:47 AM
  #542
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
Have to believe Shaw will perform all 3 kicking disciplines this year and going forward. He has a strong leg. Now he just needs some confidence experience and maturity. They obviously feel he is their guy going forward.
I wonder what we do with McKnight and Dales. Shaw is making some serious coin, and atleast Dales is too. All are NI, and you have to think one or both of those guys would be worth draft picks.

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02-06-2013, 11:52 AM
  #543
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Why do all the media wags and the Esks continue to talk about the Messam deal as a "trade"?

In literal terms I guess it is, but trading a starter with a known skillset and upside for a 6th round pick is strictly a dump.

More questionable is how Hervey feels the two deals yesterday "kind of fit together".

Anytime you trade prostarters for feedstock you don't necessarily improve your club. I keep asking this but what do we have in the backfield now? Hugh Charles and....

You haven't been paying attention. Technically it was a trade, since we received something back. But you know and I know and everyone else knows it was a dump. So what? Way too much money for a backup, and one that had a terrible season last year. They will likely sign some other big goof that can block and get some short yardage. Charles is the feature back now. And he should have been all of last year. He is a better running back. McCarty will be a backup for blocking and tailback, and it's likely they'll bring in some American hotshots to see what they can do and provide depth at the position. Before you get your knickers in a serious twist, let's wait and see what the remainder of the moves are. With free agency coming, Hervey said he is not done. Some people expect a magic wand to get waived and all the problems solved in one week. You've been around the block long enough, you should know that sometimes, moves are made with future moves in mind that relate to it.

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02-06-2013, 11:53 AM
  #544
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I wonder what we do with McKnight and Dales. Shaw is making some serious coin, and atleast Dales is too. All are NI, and you have to think one or both of those guys would be worth draft picks.

They may bring them to camp for competition, and then move them at that point. This contract with Shaw means McNight's days here are numbered. That trade to get him still sticks on my craw.

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02-06-2013, 12:06 PM
  #545
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
You haven't been paying attention. Technically it was a trade, since we received something back. But you know and I know and everyone else knows it was a dump. So what? Way too much money for a backup, and one that had a terrible season last year. They will likely sign some other big goof that can block and get some short yardage. Charles is the feature back now. And he should have been all of last year. He is a better running back. McCarty will be a backup for blocking and tailback, and it's likely they'll bring in some American hotshots to see what they can do and provide depth at the position. Before you get your knickers in a serious twist, let's wait and see what the remainder of the moves are. With free agency coming, Hervey said he is not done. Some people expect a magic wand to get waived and all the problems solved in one week. You've been around the block long enough, you should know that sometimes, moves are made with future moves in mind that relate to it.
Yeah, last off season I had patience with this org, not sure why, this year I don't. I'll probably be wrong both times.

More to do with my mood regarding the team than anything I guess. Still, Hervey had me asking questions as soon as he stated. "Kavis Reed is a very good coach".


ps I haven't been paying attention. True. Kind of tuned this org off since the disgusting playoff game against the Argos.

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02-06-2013, 01:44 PM
  #546
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Moneyguy

Any word on who is a potential college RB that they could/are targeting?
Nope, but I can ask. I do know they are high on a college QB and they think they have a good chance of signing him.

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I wonder what we do with McKnight and Dales. Shaw is making some serious coin, and atleast Dales is too. All are NI, and you have to think one or both of those guys would be worth draft picks.
If ET were still here, I'm pretty certain Dales would be traded. His plan was to use Dales to recoup a draft choice he game up to the Als.

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02-06-2013, 01:54 PM
  #547
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I think Hinse will beat out Koch for the starting Centre job this year. Expected it to happen last year as well...

No idea how the current kicking situation will unfold. Don't expect a big return for any of them, as there is not much market for them. Maybe Dales to Toronto to replace Prefontaine?

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02-06-2013, 01:58 PM
  #548
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Yup it was a dump of salaries.

I'm waiting until after free agency to see who they add to fill the holes in the lineup. There's some obvious holes in the roster right now - I suspect they will fill them with free agency.

Certainly the Esks need a power running back. And who's the third string qb.

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02-06-2013, 02:01 PM
  #549
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I think Hinse will beat out Koch for the starting Centre job this year. Expected it to happen last year as well...

No idea how the current kicking situation will unfold. Don't expect a big return for any of them, as there is not much market for them. Maybe Dales to Toronto to replace Prefontaine?
Quite disappointed in the playing time Hinse received last year. Not sure if he is one of Kavis' boys. He wasn't even dressed for every game. Hopefully you are right and he gets a starting position.

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02-06-2013, 02:09 PM
  #550
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You haven't been paying attention. Technically it was a trade, since we received something back. But you know and I know and everyone else knows it was a dump. So what? Way too much money for a backup, and one that had a terrible season last year. They will likely sign some other big goof that can block and get some short yardage. Charles is the feature back now. And he should have been all of last year. He is a better running back. McCarty will be a backup for blocking and tailback, and it's likely they'll bring in some American hotshots to see what they can do and provide depth at the position. Before you get your knickers in a serious twist, let's wait and see what the remainder of the moves are. With free agency coming, Hervey said he is not done. Some people expect a magic wand to get waived and all the problems solved in one week. You've been around the block long enough, you should know that sometimes, moves are made with future moves in mind that relate to it.
Werent you saying the same thing about the Ray trade last year?

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