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View Poll Results: Should the Habs claim Darcy Hordichuk on waivers?
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Old
02-06-2013, 12:25 AM
  #426
overlords
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Sorry Overlords, but that's as dumb a comment as saying " every game Erik Cole doesn't score a goal, he's useless". Goons won't be usefull every game, but they have their moments when they do help. It's just part of 1) having a perfect mix, including a heavyweight protector or a momentum changer, and 2) part of the show we watch. Scott did his job against Boston and innefective agains us, it happens.
No it's not. That's a completely different line of logic. Like completely. Wow. Because Cole brings more to the game than just goals. He drives the play the other way, he's a valuable ES forward, whether he's scoring or not. Defensive zone, neutral zone or offensive zone. We're talking about a player that does only one thing, and who seldom has an impact on the outcome of the match. You disregard 99% of all the other facets of the game of hockey when considering a player like Scott. Comparing Scott's fighting abilities to the hockey playing abilities of Cole is absurd, and intellectually dishonest.

That's the entire point of putting a team together. You're gonna take the guys who help push your team towards a win more often than the guys who only really help now and again, or rarely.

Point being that a goon like Scott doesn't help often enough, and even when he does, it's rarely enough to excuse using a roster spot up on him when you have the depth to use a better overall player. Find me a Scott who can kill penalties well and doesn't hurt the team on ES and sure. That's great. Until then... nope.

As for it being 'a part of the game we watch'... bringing entertainment value into this argument is flawed at best and hilarious at worst, winning is what matters. So I'll just disregard that. Many of you just project what you want to see on the ice as being what the team desperately needs. That's not how life works.

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Old
02-06-2013, 07:09 AM
  #427
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It's painfully obvious that many simply don't understand the effect of having guys who can fight on your team. It's not the number of fights as much as the what they prevent, the respect that they impose. Unfortunately, their hands are too often tied by the worst rule in the NHL: the instigator.
It's really strange.

They want the Habs to be polite and to ignore all aggression, like girl scouts.

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02-06-2013, 07:11 AM
  #428
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No it's not. That's a completely different line of logic. Like completely. Wow. Because Cole brings more to the game than just goals. He drives the play the other way, he's a valuable ES forward, whether he's scoring or not. Defensive zone, neutral zone or offensive zone. We're talking about a player that does only one thing, and who seldom has an impact on the outcome of the match. You disregard 99% of all the other facets of the game of hockey when considering a player like Scott. Comparing Scott's fighting abilities to the hockey playing abilities of Cole is absurd, and intellectually dishonest.

That's the entire point of putting a team together. You're gonna take the guys who help push your team towards a win more often than the guys who only really help now and again, or rarely.

Point being that a goon like Scott doesn't help often enough, and even when he does, it's rarely enough to excuse using a roster spot up on him when you have the depth to use a better overall player. Find me a Scott who can kill penalties well and doesn't hurt the team on ES and sure. That's great. Until then... nope.

As for it being 'a part of the game we watch'... bringing entertainment value into this argument is flawed at best and hilarious at worst, winning is what matters. So I'll just disregard that. Many of you just project what you want to see on the ice as being what the team desperately needs. That's not how life works.
Scott is paid $600,000; he doesn't need to help every game.

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02-06-2013, 07:20 AM
  #429
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Scott is paid $600,000; he doesn't need to help every game.
still taking a roster spot from someone who could be useful ever game...

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02-06-2013, 07:21 AM
  #430
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still taking a roster spot from someone who could be useful every game...
edit typo

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02-06-2013, 07:27 AM
  #431
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still taking a roster spot from someone who could be useful ever game...
As he's only paid a measly $600,000, there's more money left over for the other guys who help every game, or at least in more games, to pick up higher quality versions of these guys.

There are 23 roster spots on a team btw, but with 12 forwards, 6 dmen, and 2 goalies being iced you can have 3 press-box guys who don't help every game at a minimum. It's fine.

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02-06-2013, 09:08 AM
  #432
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
It's really strange.

They want the Habs to be polite and to ignore all aggression, like girl scouts.
doing your best southernhab imitation?

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Old
02-06-2013, 11:15 AM
  #433
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doing your best southernhab imitation?
I thought you didn't like ad hominems.

You would be surprised at how many Canadiens fans understand self respect and the value of standing up for yourself and your teammates.

I still remember the pissing and moaning over the "overpayment" for Prust. Meanwhile, Prust is very instrumental in the development of the Gallys.

Hope your day is going well. Raining big time down here.

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02-06-2013, 11:25 AM
  #434
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I thought you didn't like ad hominems.

You would be surprised at how many Canadiens fans understand self respect and the value of standing up for yourself and your teammates.

I still remember the pissing and moaning over the "overpayment" for Prust. Meanwhile, Prust is very instrumental in the development of the Gallys.

Hope your day is going well. Raining big time down here.
he is, since he can play hockey... the goons of this league cant. And it's these goons most wants the Habs to acquire. Maybe if you were asking for a bigger version of Prust or something...

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02-06-2013, 12:24 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
he is, since he can play hockey... the goons of this league cant. And it's these goons most wants the Habs to acquire. Maybe if you were asking for a bigger version of Prust or something...
no, we want MacIntyre baby, Big Mac. We want blood and we eat babys because we like fighting and tough guys

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02-06-2013, 12:26 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I thought you didn't like ad hominems.

You would be surprised at how many Canadiens fans understand self respect and the value of standing up for yourself and your teammates.

[...]

Hope your day is going well. Raining big time down here.
my day is going great, first time i see a blue sky in three weeks!

not attacking you personally at all, his post sound so much like something you'd write, i couldn't resist the joke

the constant mischaracterization of the position of the posters who do not want goons as girlscouts, pacifist, or as you just said, people who do not "understand self-respect and the values of standing up to yourself" is a strawman and frankly, this mischaracterization is starting to get on my nerves.

not wanting a goon =/= wanting the habs to play like girlscouts or tree hugging ******s...

it's BS and it needs to stop

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab
I still remember the pissing and moaning over the "overpayment" for Prust. Meanwhile, Prust is very instrumental in the development of the Gallys.
couldn't agree more, and i can't say that i remember that much pissing and moaning over the overpayment for brandon, maybe a bit because he is overpaid, but when you absolutely need a guy like this, you need to overpay. same thing that happened with cole.

then again, prust =/= goon so he shouldn't even be in this conversation! every year we have the same debate, every year, the same ********...

so again, the be clear, more prust, less goons

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Old
02-06-2013, 12:37 PM
  #437
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I'm pretty sure we all liked the Prust signing, the issue we had was getting into a bidding war for Prust being the be all of our transfer window coming off a horrible season. Had I knew this team was decent and that we still had some of our depth from the previous year, focusing everything on Prust would have made more sense. I was more annoyed Prust seemed to be the reason we weren't going after Semin or whoever when I thought this team desperately needed both skill and toughness, especially when decent cheap options were out there like Tootoo.

Prust is after all the type of guy who brings you over the top, but doesn't get you there. It's like putting new rims on a car without an engine. John Scott on the other hand is like adding truck nutz to your car.

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02-06-2013, 12:39 PM
  #438
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I'm pretty sure we all liked the Prust signing, the issue we had was getting into a bidding war for Prust being the be all of our transfer window coming off a horrible season. Had I knew this team was decent and that we still had some of our depth from the previous year, focusing everything on Prust would have made more sense.

Prust is after all the type of guy who brings you over the top, but doesn't get you there. It's like putting new rims on a car without an engine. John Scott on the other hand is like adding truck nutz to your car.
Or ''Fear this'' stickers

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02-06-2013, 12:40 PM
  #439
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Yet, for every John Scott who fixed Thornton's face, you have that same "supposed" good squad doing NOTHING to Scott or others. So you need goons to face Boston, yet Boston doesn't use their goons to respond? Somehow, we know that the next time Boston faces Buffalo, you will have 4 or 5 fights in that game, showing again, that tough guys faces tough guys. The only thing Boston has on everyone is that their goons CAN PLAY HOCKEY. Reason why there's so many of them....reason why they are leading the way as one of the best teams in the league. That's what WE'RE missing...that's what all the other teams are missing.

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Old
02-06-2013, 12:50 PM
  #440
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Yet, for every John Scott who fixed Thornton's face, you have that same "supposed" good squad doing NOTHING to Scott or others. So you need goons to face Boston, yet Boston doesn't use their goons to respond? Somehow, we know that the next time Boston faces Buffalo, you will have 4 or 5 fights in that game, showing again, that tough guys faces tough guys. The only thing Boston has on everyone is that their goons CAN PLAY HOCKEY. Reason why there's so many of them....reason why they are leading the way as one of the best teams in the league. That's what WE'RE missing...that's what all the other teams are missing.
So far most of the teams trying to copy Boston are going nowhere too. I mean does anyone seriously believe Biggs is going to end up a Lucic clone? Chara and Lucic are game breakers, a second line winger and one of the 5 best defenders in the league who are that big and strong...it allows them to be selective fighters without killing their reputations.

We aren't going to be that team, nor should we try to be, however if Tinordi can be intimidating it will go a long way...Tinordi will never be as good as Chara, Chara is a freak of nature, but he looks like he good be a legitimate second pairing defenseman and as long as he's not a giant teddy bear like Gill, he will force teams to think twice.

Another reason I wouldn't be against drafting a defenseman this year if we are talking about a Zadorov, Ristolainen or Nurse..even if they are lesser fighters, guys like this will be on the ice for half the game, so you can't dodge them.

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02-06-2013, 01:12 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Yet, for every John Scott who fixed Thornton's face, you have that same "supposed" good squad doing NOTHING to Scott or others. So you need goons to face Boston, yet Boston doesn't use their goons to respond? Somehow, we know that the next time Boston faces Buffalo, you will have 4 or 5 fights in that game, showing again, that tough guys faces tough guys. The only thing Boston has on everyone is that their goons CAN PLAY HOCKEY. Reason why there's so many of them....reason why they are leading the way as one of the best teams in the league. That's what WE'RE missing...that's what all the other teams are missing.
Prust Moen and White can all play. Tinordi once he arrives, can throw down and play.

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02-06-2013, 02:21 PM
  #442
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
my day is going great, first time i see a blue sky in three weeks!

not attacking you personally at all, his post sound so much like something you'd write, i couldn't resist the joke

the constant mischaracterization of the position of the posters who do not want goons as girlscouts, pacifist, or as you just said, people who do not "understand self-respect and the values of standing up to yourself" is a strawman and frankly, this mischaracterization is starting to get on my nerves.

not wanting a goon =/= wanting the habs to play like girlscouts or tree hugging ******s...

it's BS and it needs to stop



couldn't agree more, and i can't say that i remember that much pissing and moaning over the overpayment for brandon, maybe a bit because he is overpaid, but when you absolutely need a guy like this, you need to overpay. same thing that happened with cole.

then again, prust =/= goon so he shouldn't even be in this conversation! every year we have the same debate, every year, the same ********...

so again, the be clear, more prust, less goons
There is a post or two on this thread advocating giving up physical play in the hopes that the NHL bullies will leave the Habs players alone. And that is as frustrating as the opposite end of the spectrum.


So I understand what you are saying.

My hopes for tonight is that Prust does not have to end up fighting Lucic Lucic is a spot picker and mans up when he chooses players smaller than himself. He was lacking that bravery with Scott on the bench.

There will be fights tonight and we will see how the game plays out. I have a strong suspicion that Markov will have a giant bullseye on him. I hope we have enough firepower on the team to answer the call.

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02-06-2013, 03:32 PM
  #443
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If we could have Rinaldo on our team I would be very happy.

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02-06-2013, 03:38 PM
  #444
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If we could have Rinaldo on our team I would be very happy.
peoples here cry about White penalty all time, imagine Rinaldo

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02-06-2013, 03:38 PM
  #445
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he is, since he can play hockey... the goons of this league cant. And it's these goons most wants the Habs to acquire. Maybe if you were asking for a bigger version of Prust or something...
I think Every team would LOVE to have the biggest version of Prust possible

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02-06-2013, 03:48 PM
  #446
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Yet, for every John Scott who fixed Thornton's face, you have that same "supposed" good squad doing NOTHING to Scott or others. So you need goons to face Boston, yet Boston doesn't use their goons to respond? Somehow, we know that the next time Boston faces Buffalo, you will have 4 or 5 fights in that game, showing again, that tough guys faces tough guys. The only thing Boston has on everyone is that their goons CAN PLAY HOCKEY. Reason why there's so many of them....reason why they are leading the way as one of the best teams in the league. That's what WE'RE missing...that's what all the other teams are missing.
Totaly agree 100%! we don't need more rules we need less rules. So hockey can go back to the way it used to be and guys would not be penalized for sticking up for there team mates or goalies playing the puck in the corner? I miss Ron hextall going out and laying an attacking forward out as if he was Scott Stevens then making a big play. On when it was a players own fault for cutting throw the center with his head down and having his season ended? Imagine Scott Steven would have his own desk in shannys office if he still played? Lol

Sorry bout the Ramblin kinda got off topic

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02-06-2013, 04:18 PM
  #447
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As you can tell...

As you can see by my avatar, I am a huge fan of Parros and I really hoped we'd get him in the of season, but Florida swooped down and crushed my dreams.

That being said, and to answer the specific question as to whether or not I think we need an enforcers? Need, no I don't believe so. Would I like one... oh yes.

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02-06-2013, 04:38 PM
  #448
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If we could have Rinaldo on our team I would be very happy.
Prust >> Rinaldo in hockey and fighting. One fast ball lucky punch doesn't change that. Rinaldo can't and won't take the bigger guys in the division. I would of been extremely happy to get Rupp or Maschinter.

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02-06-2013, 04:48 PM
  #449
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lol at people here who think Chara is a good fighter
All the sabres fans are happy to have Scott after last night. Habs should bring a heavy and switch him with Armstrong again tough team
LOL So true. Chara is no good fighter. Besides, he would never risk fighting a big guy like Scott. If Chara gets injured in the process, the Ruins may have to say bye-bye to their season and Cup hopes.

So basically, you want a guy that can neutralize ONE of their grunts, Thorton and Lucic. You give it to one and the other will keep his head between his legs. You don't need to fight them all the same night.

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02-06-2013, 05:13 PM
  #450
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No it's not. That's a completely different line of logic. Like completely. Wow. Because Cole brings more to the game than just goals. He drives the play the other way, he's a valuable ES forward, whether he's scoring or not. Defensive zone, neutral zone or offensive zone. We're talking about a player that does only one thing, and who seldom has an impact on the outcome of the match. You disregard 99% of all the other facets of the game of hockey when considering a player like Scott. Comparing Scott's fighting abilities to the hockey playing abilities of Cole is absurd, and intellectually dishonest.

That's the entire point of putting a team together. You're gonna take the guys who help push your team towards a win more often than the guys who only really help now and again, or rarely.

Point being that a goon like Scott doesn't help often enough, and even when he does, it's rarely enough to excuse using a roster spot up on him when you have the depth to use a better overall player. Find me a Scott who can kill penalties well and doesn't hurt the team on ES and sure. That's great. Until then... nope.

As for it being 'a part of the game we watch'... bringing entertainment value into this argument is flawed at best and hilarious at worst, winning is what matters. So I'll just disregard that. Many of you just project what you want to see on the ice as being what the team desperately needs. That's not how life works.
For some reason you like to assume that they are completely useless outside of fighting. 1st of all their presence in the line-up alone helps keep the other players clean, he doesn't have to fight every single game. Seeing the habs with their tales between their legs on so many games for the last 10 years is more then enough proof I need to prove that. If you think otherwise, good for you.

Like I said, having a protector is part of the mix of having a good team, not 10, 1. We have more then enough players to play P.K (Plekanec, Bourque, Moen, Prust, White, Eller, Desharnais, etc.) and I see no problem with double-shifting when the gane goes, most teams rool with 3 lines in the 3rd period anyways.

Lastly, I don't know about you, but I watch because I Love hockey, on TV and playing the game. Adding the entertainement aspect is not flawed at all, we pay for tickets and RDS pays for television rights, that's how life works right? But that was just 1 point in the whole debate.

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