The issue is that Reimer isn't an average starting goaltender in this league. I mean, seriously, emotional attachment aside, do you really believe in that notion?
Talent and stats wise... he definitely is. The numbers tell you that.
Only thing holding him back is sample size. No one will accept that he's an "average" starter until he's done it for at least a year.
But thats not Reimer's fault. Its easy to see he's a good goaltender, and this is even playing on a mediocre team. Revisit this in April when the season is winding down.
The other day I was thinking, when was the last time I saw a goalie let in 4 goals but still manage to walk away thinking that he had a pretty great game? The Leafs played like crap in the game against the Carolina Hurricanes, and James Reimer was probably our best player.
Even if we don't make the playoffs this year, I'm just happy we're seeing huge progression in our young players; James Van Riemsdyk, Nazem Kadri, Matt Frattin in addition to James Reimer. I just want to see Jake Gardiner comfortably reassimilated into the roster and our youth movement will be looking pretty impactful.
Reimer is just about to turn 25, a young age for a goalie.
He have played less then a full season with all the game combined, 78 to be exact. and he have not started all of them.
His average save % is 0.912, a solid number.
He have good size and does not stand out either negatively or over positively when it comes to positioning or technical skills. He have a solid foundation in both areas and hopefully, most likely he will improve both with more experience.
He played his junior years on a very bad Red Deer team who I dont think had any defenders drafted the 3 years he played there. Still he put up numbers solid enough for us to draft him.
The he becomes a pro and have to play on probably the worst coached team in the entire NHL who also happened to have some of the worst defenders on its team. The combined hockey IQ among those defenders is probably lower then the amount of games Reimer have had. And if that was not enough the team also tried several goalies and also changed goalie coach twice(?) since he arrived so he have never really had much to go at in that department either. I reckon it is easier for a young goalie if the goalie coach stay the same and there is also a legit veteran starter he can compete with.
I think Reimer is the perfect goalie for us for several reasons. First of all I like him and that we drafted him. Neither of those reasons are strong ones so here comes a couple of good reasons. He have talent and he is the perfect age for a rebuilding team like ours. A goalie dont hit his peak until he is getting close to his 30´s. And we have a lot of young defenders who are 2-5 years younger then Reimer who are expected to hit their picks around the same time he does. I think if we stay the course with Reimer and the young defenders we have our defense will turn out to be very solid in a few years with a group of players who know each others strengths and weaknesses.
The Reimer Discussion Thread [Relative Stats in OP]
Seem's like different people are posting different ideas about Optimus in different threads, so it might be easier to have one thread to be able to discuss what we collectively think about him.
Part of it is the team, how much of it, I'm not sure.
Also note, this list excludes players with under 78 games (since at 78 there's a sudden drop off), Giguere, Gustavsson, Clemmensen, Budaj, Hedberg, Rask, Ellis, Mason, Montoya, Nabokov, Emery, Lindback, Boucher, Enroth, Bernier are in the 42 to 67 game bracket.
As he did in his first season, Reimer is playing excellent this season. The dissipointment with last season I am willing to attribute to injury/concussion and a certain Leafs coach who shall not be named.
He's playing just ok. Saying he's played excellent is stretching the truth. I want the Leafs to ride him though and see if he can get into that groove and hopefully become excellent. 8 years of ****** goaltending will alter a fan's perception of what an excellent goalie looks like.
He's been a solid, average tender relative to the rest of the league for a team that hasn't had that in nearly a decade .. He's proving he's a capable NHL starter for sure
I'm actually quite baffled that people think Reimer is the solution to our goaltending problems since day 1.
As I've said before, one would be hard pressed to name 5, let alone 15, teams where Reimer would be the definitive starting goaltender.
He has better numbers 7 games in (save %), then Lundqvist, Quick, and Miller. They are completely skewed due to a small sample size.
If I'm Nonis, I'm doing everything I can to get Bernier for cheap.
I was following you until you said Bernier. How are his numbers this year? Or career wise? Pretty comparable to Reimer wouldnt you say? On a much better team no less.
Look, I'm not against Bernier. In fact, I kinda want him too... but to degrade Reimer and to wipe Berniers bum seems a little silly considering they've both showed about the EXACT SAME THING at the NHL level at pretty dang similar ages. It's not like you're suggesting a proven winner like a MAF or Cam Ward or etc. Bernier has about as many question marks as Reimer for crying out loud! (do not bring draft status into the equation as that means nothing 5 years after the fact).
I was following you until you said Bernier. How are his numbers this year? Or career wise? Pretty comparable to Reimer wouldnt you say? On a much better team no less.
Look, I'm not against Bernier. In fact, I kinda want him too... but to degrade Reimer and to wipe Berniers bum seems a little silly considering they've both showed about the EXACT SAME THING at the NHL level at pretty dang similar ages. It's not like you're suggesting a proven winner like a MAF or Cam Ward or etc. Bernier has about as many question marks as Reimer for crying out loud! (do not bring draft status into the equation as that means nothing 5 years after the fact).
Your right, Bernier's numbers aren't the greatest. The notion that we should take Bernier is completely from a qualitative standpoint (there aren't much existing metrics for hockey, as is). Watching Bernier and Reimer in net is apples and oranges. Reimer has been given a fair chance to be the #1 last year, his poor rebound control, glove, and positioning continue to be a huge issue.
If one actually watches Bernier play, I'm seeing a guy with immense talent that just hasn't really been given a chance. I strongly feel that it's night and day, talent wise. Put Bernier on this team, I feel, emphatically, that he'd make this team worth watching. He just needs a chance. People really need to watch games outside of regional leaf games to understand how terrible Reimer + Gus last year really were.
As for the guy that just posted above me, let's just hope the other 20k posts you have are as constructive as your last one.
Instead of comparing him to his peers why don't you show us the stats of the other Leaf goaltenders over the past 3 years.. Even these "average" stats posted by James Reimer are unheard of on the post-lockout Leafs.
Instead of comparing him to his peers why don't you show us the stats of the other Leaf goaltenders over the past 3 years.. Even these "average" stats posted by James Reimer are unheard of on the post-lockout Leafs.
Just because we've had a string of bad goalies, doesn't make Reimer any better.
Raycroft did poorly in Toronto - left, did just as poorly is now in the AHL
Toskalol did poorly in Toronto - left, couldn't find an NHL job
Giggy did okay in Toronto - left, is doing okay in Colorado
Gusty did below average in Toronto - too soon, but so far did below average in Detroit
I had zero faith in reimer at the start of the year and now I have alittle he is looking better but i still dont really like the get big and close your eyes style of goal tending but if he can contiune to get himself in the right spots he may be able to give the average goaltending this team was needed since the last lockout
In what universe is James Reimer not an average NHL goaltender? He's miles and miles better than anything we've had in years. He's not an allstar, but he's good.
In what universe is James Reimer not an average NHL goaltender? He's miles and miles better than anything we've had in years. He's not an allstar, but he's good.
Name me 15 teams where Reimer is the starter with a straight face, and people will take your word for it.
In what universe is James Reimer not an average NHL goaltender? He's miles and miles better than anything we've had in years. He's not an allstar, but he's good.
Remember, being an average goalie means you are one of the approx 15 best in the world. Take away his games where he was clearly recovering from a major concusssion and you have a pretty good goalie. That and his positive response to a new goalie coach gives you reason to believe he will improve. I'm just glad his play has dulled the knee-jerk reaction to make a Luongo trade.
Key words - LAST YEAR. He returned from serious injury into a trainwreck.
In his injury free seasons, Reimer has shown he is an NHL calibre goalie.
Too many variables to judge Reimer purely on a quantitative basis. He had one good half-season, the leafs are great at half-season sample sizes. His injury season may very well be an anomaly, but so can his injury-free half-season. Point is, it goes both ways.
7 games in this year, he's right at in the middle of the pack for starting goaltenders, but I don't think anyone here, even people on this board who think highly of Reimer believe he is a better goaltender than Quick, Lundqvist, or Miller, like his stats indicate.
Right now, all we really have is qualitative observations and it is very hard for someone to say Reimer is an average starting NHL goaltender. He's a lot closer to a bottom 5 starting goaltender in the NHL than he is an average starting goaltender. Not sure where people are getting this "Reimer is an average starting goaltender" notion. Point blank, one cannot name 5-7, let alone 15 teams where Reimer is the legitimate #1 goaltender.
Too many variables to judge Reimer purely on a quantitative basis. He had one good half-season, the leafs are great at half-season sample sizes. His injury season may very well be an anomaly, but so can his injury-free half-season. Point is, it goes both ways.
7 games in this year, he's right at in the middle of the pack for starting goaltenders, but I don't think anyone here, even people on this board who think highly of Reimer believe he is a better goaltender than Quick, Lundqvist, or Miller, like his stats indicate.
Right now, all we really have is qualitative observations and it is very hard for someone to say Reimer is an average starting NHL goaltender. He's a lot closer to a bottom 5 starting goaltender in the NHL than he is an average starting goaltender. Not sure where people are getting this "Reimer is an average starting goaltender" notion. Point blank, one cannot name 5-7, let alone 15 teams where Reimer is the legitimate #1 goaltender.
Good observations...can't really disagree with anything. However, the main reason for his lack of a body of work to make a better judgement is that he is relatively inexperienced and very young for a starting goalie (which he is). In many ways the ideal profile of a player for a team rebuilding which the Leafs clearly are. Hopefully he will grow and get better with the rest of the team.
Your right, Bernier's numbers aren't the greatest. The notion that we should take Bernier is completely from a qualitative standpoint (there aren't much existing metrics for hockey, as is). Watching Bernier and Reimer in net is apples and oranges. Reimer has been given a fair chance to be the #1 last year, his poor rebound control, glove, and positioning continue to be a huge issue.
If one actually watches Bernier play, I'm seeing a guy with immense talent that just hasn't really been given a chance. I strongly feel that it's night and day, talent wise. Put Bernier on this team, I feel, emphatically, that he'd make this team worth watching. He just needs a chance. People really need to watch games outside of regional leaf games to understand how terrible Reimer + Gus last year really were.
As for the guy that just posted above me, let's just hope the other 20k posts you have are as constructive as your last one.
Surely apples and oranges when you compare Bernier with a Reimer of last season who basically played most of the season with concussion symptoms. That's a great qualitative standpoint. Makes for a very strong argument.
Surely apples and oranges when you compare Bernier with a Reimer of last season who basically played most of the season with concussion symptoms. That's a great qualitative standpoint. Makes for a very strong argument.
Any qualitative argument would be hard to back up. I'm not a huge proponent of anecdotes, so that's why I acknowledged it was a QUALITATIVE argument. Thus, it's merely an opinion, lacking a sound, quantiative background. It is this exact qualitative evaluation where I much prefer Bernier to Reimer.
Essentially, your reiterating the basis of that entire post which I acknowledged. Thanks for stating the obvious.
