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3 years later, Taylor Hall Vs. Tyler Seguin

View Poll Results: Tyler Vs Taylor
Taylor Hall 449 57.94%
Tyler Seguin 326 42.06%
Voters: 775. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-06-2013, 04:37 PM
  #76
5RingsAndABeer
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Originally Posted by Aucoin11 View Post
That's just not true.
Actually, it is. There's a reason fans who watch the Oilers 82 (48) games a year have a different opinion than those who watch a couple games.

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02-06-2013, 04:50 PM
  #77
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I said Hall before they were drafted and nothing has made me change my mind. Very very close, and maybe always will be, but I just like the way Hall plays the game.

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Old
02-06-2013, 04:52 PM
  #78
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Lol it's a tie at 11 each right now.

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Old
02-06-2013, 06:13 PM
  #79
Stephen Goalbert
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Has it really been pretty much three years?

**** time flies.

Hall.

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02-06-2013, 06:24 PM
  #80
Pekka Rinne
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Originally Posted by TSC View Post
In 2010/11 - Tyler Seguin scored a goal approximately every 12 minutes he was on the ice. Taylor Hall scored approximately every 18 minutes he was on the ice.

In 2011/12 - Tyler Seguin scored a goal approximately every 16 minutes he was on the ice. Taylor Hall scored (again) approximately every 18 minutes he was on the ice.

This year has only been 8 games. It's too small of a sample size to make any judgements yet.

That being said, Tyler Seguin scores more often than Taylor Hall. He's just on the ice significantly less - due to the team he plays on.
Are you just saying random numbers? You think Seguin scored every 12 minutes? 5 goals a game, eh?!

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02-06-2013, 06:54 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Pekka Rinne View Post
Are you just saying random numbers? You think Seguin scored every 12 minutes? 5 goals a game, eh?!
I think every 12 minutes would be every 12 minutes he played. So if he played 12 mins a night hed be a goal per game, 24 mins 2 gpg, etc. But I cant find data to support it anywhere

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02-06-2013, 07:00 PM
  #82
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I've said it many times. The only time Seguin has clearly been better was during a 2-3 week streak in November last season where Seguin had 10 goals in 9 games while Hall went goalless for 9 games.

Seguin Hot Streak: 9 games- 10 goals and 15 points
Hall Cold Streak: 9 games- 0 goals and 3 points
-
Seguin Since The Hot Streak: 72 games- 19 goals and 57 points
Hall Since The Hot Streak: 52 games- 26 goals and 51 points

I got ripped apart last season because I said outside of Seguin's hot streak, you could expect him to play like a 20 goal/60 point player on the average night. He's played almost an entire season's worth of games since then and look at the numbers. Pretty close to being accurate. Hall on the other hand started last season at a point per game pace, went into a slump, finished the final 45ish games at a point per game before getting injured and now this season has again been a point per game player. He's also a significantly better goal scorer.

Ice time, linemates or systems aren't the difference in these two players stats....and I'd argue that Seguin actually has the advantage in linemates and system because the Bruins more defensively responsible way of playing plus a guy like Bergeron actually results in the puck being on Seguin's stick more than Hall's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago Made Punk View Post
Has it really been pretty much three years?

**** time flies.

Hall.
It's been almost exactly 2.5 years.


Last edited by Wheatking: 02-06-2013 at 07:08 PM.
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02-06-2013, 07:17 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Wheatking View Post
I've said it many times. The only time Seguin has clearly been better was during a 2-3 week streak in November last season where Seguin had 10 goals in 9 games while Hall went goalless for 9 games.

Seguin Hot Streak: 9 games- 10 goals and 15 points
Hall Cold Streak: 9 games- 0 goals and 3 points
-
Seguin Since The Hot Streak: 72 games- 19 goals and 57 points
Hall Since The Hot Streak: 52 games- 26 goals and 51 points

I got ripped apart last season because I said outside of Seguin's hot streak, you could expect him to play like a 20 goal/60 point player on the average night. He's played almost an entire season's worth of games since then and look at the numbers. Pretty close to being accurate. Hall on the other hand started last season at a point per game pace, went into a slump, finished the final 45ish games at a point per game before getting injured and now this season has again been a point per game player. He's also a significantly better goal scorer.

Ice time, linemates or systems aren't the difference in these two players stats....and I'd argue that Seguin actually has the advantage in linemates and system because the Bruins more defensively responsible way of playing plus a guy like Bergeron actually results in the puck being on Seguin's stick more than Hall's.



It's been almost exactly 2.5 years.
You can't throw out Seguin's hot streak and Hall's cold streak though. You're cherry picking the stats. I could also throw out one of Hall's hot streaks and Seguin's cold streaks. Instead let's look at what the players actually did last year instead of manipulating the stats.
Hall had 53 points in 61 games last year while Seguin had 67 in 81.
I can see why the poll is so close.

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02-06-2013, 08:08 PM
  #84
Wheatking
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
You can't throw out Seguin's hot streak and Hall's cold streak though. You're cherry picking the stats. I could also throw out one of Hall's hot streaks and Seguin's cold streaks. Instead let's look at what the players actually did last year instead of manipulating the stats.
Hall had 53 points in 61 games last year while Seguin had 67 in 81.
I can see why the poll is so close.
It's not manipulating or ignoring stats. It's the opposite. It's recognizing an exception. Seguin never came close to repeating that hot streak. If two players finish with 30 goals/70 points and you have to choose who you'd rather have, wouldn't you want to know that one player scored 10 of his goals in a 9 game stretch and for the other 73 games of the season he wasn't actually close to playing like a 30 goal/70 point player? You'd want the more consistent player.

It's also arguing just for the sake of arguing. One player has 26 goals/51 points in his last 52 games while the other has 19 goals/57 points in his last 72 games. Say what you want but the stats speak for themselves. These aren't small sample sizes.

Even if you don't single out Hall's 9 game slump and look at his last 72 games compared to Seguin.

Seguin's last 72 games- 19 goals and 57 points
Hall's last 72 games- 30 goals and 64 points

...and that's with a completely out of character slump.

As for taking out Hall's best stretch from last season. Go ahead. I've done it before. He was very consistent last season and his best streak wasn't anything crazy. It's actually kind of tough to figure out which stretch would be his best. Break up his season into 10 game stretches and he will almost always have about 5-6 goals and 9-10 points. It would also be noted that by singling out Hall's best 9 game stretch, you're looking at 15% of his season. With Seguin it's 11%. 10 of Seguin's 29 goals came in 11% of his season. I seriously don't know what's bad about recognizing that...

After Hall's cold streak, only once did he go more than 2 games without a point and it was 3 games. He also had 11 shots in those 3 games. His three longest goalless streaks were two stretches of 4 games and then one 3 game stretch. Other than that, he never went more than 2 games without a goal. Seguin went 3 games without a point 4 times after his hot streak. He also went 4+ games without a goal seven times. Including a 10 game stretch, a 6 game stretch and two 5 game stretches without a goal. What was considered a slump for Hall last season was almost a common occurrence for Seguin.

Say what you want about hockey sense. Going back to last season Hall has at least a point in 64% of his games while Seguin is at 53%.


Last edited by Wheatking: 02-06-2013 at 08:14 PM.
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Old
02-06-2013, 08:11 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Wheatking View Post
It's not manipulating or ignoring stats. It's the opposite. It's recognizing an exception. Seguin never came close to repeating that hot streak. If two players finish with 30 goals/70 points and you have to choose who you'd rather have, wouldn't you want to know that one player scored 10 of his goals in a 9 game stretch and for the other 73 games of the season he wasn't actually close to playing like a 30 goal/70 point player? You'd want the more consistent player.

It's also arguing just for the sake of arguing. One player has 26 goals/51 points in his last 52 games while the other has 19 goals/57 points in his last 72 games. Say what you want but the stats speak for themselves. These aren't small sample sizes.

Even if you don't single out Hall's 9 game slump and look at his last 72 games compared to Seguin.

Seguin's last 72 games- 19 goals and 57 points
Hall's last 72 games- 30 goals and 64 points

...and that's with a completely out of character slump.

As for taking out Hall's best stretch from last season. Go ahead. I've done it before. He was very consistent last season and his best streak wasn't anything crazy. It's actually kind of tough to figure out which stretch would be his best. Break up his season into 10 game stretches and he will almost always have about 5-6 goals and 9-10 points. It would also be noted that by singling out Hall's best 9 game stretch, you're looking at 15% of his season. With Seguin it's 11%. 10 of Seguin's 29 goals came in 11% of his season. I seriously don't know what's bad about recognizing that...

After Hall's cold streak, only once did he go more than 2 games without a point and it was 3 games. He also had 11 shots in those 3 games. His three longest goalless streaks were two stretches of 4 games and then one 3 game stretch. Other than that, he never went more than 2 games without a goal. Seguin went 3 games without a point 4 times after his hot streak. He also went 4+ games without a goal seven times. Including a 10 game stretch, a 6 game stretch and two 5 game stretches without a goal. What was considered a slump for Hall last season was almost a common occurrence for Seguin.
But if you eliminate all of the Wednesday games and the games where there was a full moon then it's Seguin by a good margin.
I understand you are excited about Hall but there's no need to cherry pick stats. Look at last year's stats and it's almost a dead heat.

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02-06-2013, 08:23 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
But if you eliminate all of the Wednesday games and the games where there was a full moon then it's Seguin by a good margin.
I understand you are excited about Hall but there's no need to cherry pick stats. Look at last year's stats and it's almost a dead heat.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say you didn't read what I said. I even took Hall's last 72 games played. In Hall's last 72 games played(which includes a stretch without a goal for 9 games) he still has 11 more goals than Seguin does in his last 72 games. 72 games is also over half of Hall's career. Not sure how that's cherry picking.

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02-06-2013, 08:26 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Wheatking View Post
I'm going to go out on a limb and say you didn't read what I said. I even took Hall's last 72 games played. In Hall's last 72 games played(which includes a stretch without a goal for 9 games) he still has 11 more goals than Seguin does in his last 72 games. 72 games is also over half of Hall's career. Not sure how that's cherry picking.
I posted their stats for last year. Obviously Seguin's were better as Hall missed time with an injury. Accounting for that they were almost identical.
At the end of this year I'll look at their stats as well.
If you want to then throw out any of Seguin's hot streaks or Hall's cold streaks to support your argument then fill your boots. As I said, IMO, they are almost identical to this point.

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02-06-2013, 08:28 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
But if you eliminate all of the Wednesday games and the games where there was a full moon then it's Seguin by a good margin.
I understand you are excited about Hall but there's no need to cherry pick stats. Look at last year's stats and it's almost a dead heat.
What a brutal reply to a well thought out and articulated comment. He rebutted what you said, and accommodated your complaints by including Hall's cold streak, and all you did to defend your position was be sarcastic and repeat it. That's called losing an argument.

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02-06-2013, 08:35 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
What a brutal reply to a well thought out and articulated comment. He rebutted what you said, and accommodated your complaints by including Hall's cold streak, and all you did to defend your position was be sarcastic and repeat it. That's called losing an argument.
I posted their stats from last year. Compare them. Then come up with a reasonable argument as to why one is better than the other based on stats.
Looking at the current poll which is now a dead heat it look slike many people agree with my opinion.


Last edited by spiny norman: 02-06-2013 at 11:36 PM. Reason: [/QUOTE]
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02-06-2013, 08:37 PM
  #90
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Seguin, not close for me.

Kid has golden hands and dimensional speed.

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02-06-2013, 08:41 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
I posted their stats from last year. Compare them. Then come up with a reasonable argument as to why one is better than the other based on stats. If that's called losing an argument then I suspect that you aren't interested in hearing opposing views. That's called being a homer.
What does that have to do with what i said? Who said i didn't want to hear opposing viewpoints? I suggested that perhaps given how much consideration he gave your comment, hence the direct and thorough rebuttal, that perhaps you should have reciprocated with a direct and thorough rebuttal of your own in replying to his comment. It had nothing to do with Hall or Seguin, but rather the validity of the argument you were making. Sarcasm and repeating yourself isn't an apt way to conduct yourself in a debate, it's counterproductive. If you're repeating yourself the discussion can't move forward, and even worse if you're mocking them (i.e. sarcasm) it's in fact pushing the discussion backwards.

What in my comment makes you say "i'm a homer"? Seriously post the quote. I don't believe i established a position in regards to the players being discussed in what i had written in reply to you. Why resort to name calling?

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02-06-2013, 08:45 PM
  #92
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Poll is neck and neck... as it should be.

BTW, got 'em both in my keeper league along with Tavares, RNH and Malkin.

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02-06-2013, 08:47 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
What does that have to do with what i said? Who said i didn't want to hear opposing viewpoints? I suggested that perhaps given how much consideration he gave your comment, hence the direct and thorough rebuttal, that perhaps you should have reciprocated with a direct and thorough rebuttal of your own in replying to his comment. It had nothing to do with Hall or Seguin, but rather the validity of the argument you were making. Sarcasm and repeating yourself isn't an apt way to conduct yourself in a debate, it's counterproductive. If you're repeating yourself the discussion can't move forward, and even worse if you're mocking them (i.e. sarcasm) it's in fact pushing the discussion going backwards.
My rebuttal is last seasons' stats. His position is that a player who is streaky is less valuable. I don't agree but even if I did I'd have to look at whether Hall had some hot streaks in his games to say whether Seguin is any more streaky than Hall. In the end, I'll look at full season stats. Right now they're prety much dead even. So far Hall has better stats than Seguin this season but it's a very small sample size. If Hall outperforms Seguin this year then he may have a point. Otherwise it's too close to call, IMO.

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02-06-2013, 08:51 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
I posted their stats from last year. Compare them. Then come up with a reasonable argument as to why one is better than the other based on stats.
Looking at the current poll which is now a dead heat it look slike many people agree with my opinion.
Going by this very simple logic. While Crosby had 37 points last season, Ryan Smyth had 46. Gonna have to go with Smytty on this one. Also, both Backstrom and Sykora had 44 points last season so I just don't know who to take in that one.

There are probably many other factors I should be taking into consideration here but it's probably best that we just look at how many points they had last season. I know Pens fans are excited about Crosby but I'm going to have to reevaluate the whole Crosby/Smyth debate at the end of the season.

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02-06-2013, 08:53 PM
  #95
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Going by this very simple logic. While Crosby had 37 points last season, Ryan Smyth had 46. Gonna have to go with Smytty on this one. Also, both Backstrom and Sykora had 44 points last season so I just don't know who to take in that one.

There are probably many other factors I should be taking into consideration here but it's probably best that we just look at how many points they had last season. I know Pens fans are excited about Crosby but I'm going to have to reevaluate the whole Crosby/Smyth debate at the end of the season.
I see you missed the part where I said taking into account Hall's injury they were about dead even.

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02-06-2013, 08:58 PM
  #96
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Seguin before the draft, Seguin now. And this is coming from a Leafs fan. Hall has that pure offensive ability but Seguin isn't far behind offensively IMO and he's projected to be a much better overall player. I keep wondering how Halls body is gonna hold up, that wreckless style takes a toll eventually.

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02-06-2013, 09:06 PM
  #97
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Hypothetically...

If both Crosby and Marleau were to finish the season with 20 goals and 50 points in 48 games this season. Do you ignore that after 5 games Marleau had 9 goals and 13 points while Crosby had 3 goals and 5 points? Which means in the other 43 games Marleau had 11 goals and 37 points while Crosby had 17 goals and 45 points.

Do you say that over 48 games Marleau was just as good as Crosby because they finished with the same stats. Or do you acknowledge that outside of a 5 game stint that was never close to being repeated, Crosby was the better player?

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02-06-2013, 09:08 PM
  #98
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Taylor Hall seems like a really wreakless player in that he's more likely to get injured. Seems everygame I watch the Canucks VS Oilers, Edler always trys to catch Hall with his head down trying to hit him. Hall is like Kesler kind of and you see now Kesler has had like 3 surgeries in the last year and he's still not in the lineup.

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02-06-2013, 09:43 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
Seguin before the draft, Seguin now. And this is coming from a Leafs fan. Hall has that pure offensive ability but Seguin isn't far behind offensively IMO and he's projected to be a much better overall player. I keep wondering how Halls body is gonna hold up, that wreckless style takes a toll eventually.
Please, tell me more about how you know more than professional NHL scouts.

Seguin's also not projected to be a "much better overall player" than Hall. That is complete ********.

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02-06-2013, 10:44 PM
  #100
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I'm an Oil fan so I am biased. Also don't get to see many Bruins games, but I love the way Hall plays the game. Yes he is wreckless but he has toned it down this year while still being PPG player and being the engine that drives the first line. He still makes some boneheaded mistakes like trying this lame toe drag move when entering the offensive zone. But he seems to have toned it down the last couple games. Also aside from a couple gaffs his defense has not been bad this year. He is no Selke contender obviously but he does seem more aware and he is one of the best on the team at getting the puck out of our zone.

IMO he is our MVP. Ebs may have more skill but he wouldn't have near as many chances without hallsy. And while he is doing well in the points department right now, our first line hasn't clicked at all. They have seemed really off key with eachother and whiffing on many chances.

Won't vote cause it wouldn't be fair considering I haven't seen enough Seguin but I figured I would just shed some more light on #4.

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