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Stars Bench Goose Tonight

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Old
02-06-2013, 03:23 PM
  #1
haf
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Stars Bench Goose Tonight

Can we rescind the Fire Gully thread for a bit?

He has been terrible at the details for a bit now. They have tried everybody with him as a partner.

*would have posted link but DMN page was broken.

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Old
02-06-2013, 03:24 PM
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LatvianTwist
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This isn't threadworthy...

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Old
02-06-2013, 03:25 PM
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Elysian
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And it's already being discussed in the GDT...

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Old
02-06-2013, 03:27 PM
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BigG44
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Way to go haf. Get it together.

OK ... have we piled on enough or should he get sent to message board timeout.

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Old
02-06-2013, 03:30 PM
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txomisc
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i think this is an excellent thread

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02-06-2013, 03:32 PM
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Troy McClure
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Certainly is thread worthy. Seeing the d-man who is the highest paid and logs the mostly minutes get healthy scratched is a huge deal. If this happened in Toronto, it would require a press conference to explain.

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Old
02-06-2013, 03:34 PM
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BigG44
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Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
Certainly is thread worthy. Seeing the d-man who is the highest paid and logs the mostly minutes get healthy scratched is a huge deal. If this happened in Toronto, it would require a press conference to explain.
I laughed today that Winnipeg called a press conference to explain the decision to send Mark Scheifele (sp?) back to the OHL.

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Old
02-06-2013, 03:47 PM
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LatvianTwist
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I laughed today that Winnipeg called a press conference to explain the decision to send Mark Scheifele (sp?) back to the OHL.
OT, but I just had a friend argue with me that he was more NHL ready than Couturier... I don't even know how that makes sense.

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Old
02-06-2013, 04:04 PM
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BeaverSports
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It's definitely thread worthy considering Joe Nieuwendyk's reputation is somewhat on the line with Goligoski in that he traded one of the best young forwards in the game and arguably an equal or better defenceman for him. If the defenceman he was that desperate to get starts becoming a healthy scratch, what is that saying?

Does it say Nieuwendyk is willing to admit a mistake? Does it say Goligoski needed a wake-up call? Does it say others in the organization are calling the shots on this one? Is it on Gulutzen's head if it doesn't work?

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Old
02-06-2013, 04:19 PM
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how can you possibly tie gmjn's entire career as gm to one trade?

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02-06-2013, 04:22 PM
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WhoahNow
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how can you possibly tie gmjn's entire career as gm to one trade?
and if you are going to tie it to one trade it should be the Lehtonen trade. Can you imagine this team without him!

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Old
02-06-2013, 04:22 PM
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LatvianTwist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeaverSports View Post
It's definitely thread worthy considering Joe Nieuwendyk's reputation is somewhat on the line with Goligoski in that he traded one of the best young forwards in the game and arguably an equal or better defenceman for him. If the defenceman he was that desperate to get starts becoming a healthy scratch, what is that saying?

Does it say Nieuwendyk is willing to admit a mistake? Does it say Goligoski needed a wake-up call? Does it say others in the organization are calling the shots on this one? Is it on Gulutzen's head if it doesn't work?
Oh please. Neal is a 1st liner, he's not elite by any means outside of maybe his shot.

Niskanen was done here in Dallas, I thought we all had that figured out. Great to see him pan out in Pittsburgh, but he was never going to do much else in Dallas.

And one trade should not have that huge of an impact unless we completely ****ed ourselves over, which we obviously did not.

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Old
02-06-2013, 04:23 PM
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usefulfiction
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeaverSports View Post
It's definitely thread worthy considering Joe Nieuwendyk's reputation is somewhat on the line with Goligoski in that he traded one of the best young forwards in the game and arguably an equal or better defenceman for him. If the defenceman he was that desperate to get starts becoming a healthy scratch, what is that saying?

Does it say Nieuwendyk is willing to admit a mistake? Does it say Goligoski needed a wake-up call? Does it say others in the organization are calling the shots on this one? Is it on Gulutzen's head if it doesn't work?
Look at some of Jon Daniels early trades as Texas Rangers GM. I think we tend to forget Joe was a first time GM. We're forgiving for on-ice rookie mistakes, why not front office rookie mistakes?

Personally I think that trade is offset, if not overshadowed by Kari for Ivan + 6th trade.

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Old
02-06-2013, 04:24 PM
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LatvianTwist
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and if you are going to tie it to one trade it should be the Lehtonen trade. Can you imagine this team without him!
Seriously. We got a top 5 goalie in the league for nothing. Why doesn't that trade come up more often?

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Old
02-06-2013, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Seriously. We got a top 5 goalie in the league for nothing. Why doesn't that trade come up more often?
We got an injury prone, attitude issue goalie for our best defenseman prospect. It turned out pretty well, but when everyone wants to vent about about bad GMJN behavior Neal is going to be invoked more than Kari.

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Old
02-06-2013, 04:39 PM
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BigG44
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Seriously. We got a top 5 goalie in the league for nothing. Why doesn't that trade come up more often?
This isn't attack on anyone in particular because I fall for this at times, but it's easier to get passionate and pissed about something you're angry about and ignore all the positives and good moves. In the middle of a game is where I'm often the most guilty.

Tango has brought this up before. We all *****, myself included, about Larsen, and we ignore the fact this is the most prospects I can ever remember watching play at one time with Dallas.

If you're not going to be happy until you get absolutely everything you expect and desire from this team, you're going to be *****ing until you stop watching hockey because no team is going to do everything you want unless you get hired to be the head coach/GM.

There are plenty of good reasons Larsen should play, and I agree with nearly all of them, but lately there is much more to be happy about with this team.

It's really difficult to not focus on something like Larsen though. I'm not faulting anyone for that.

Where Tango and I disagree is he seems to talk like this team should be trying to win now. This isn't a Stanley Cup contender IMO, and they're just stalling the process of becoming a good team by not focusing on development instead of production. It's easy to say Gaglardi shouldn't punish GM Joe or Gulutzan for not winning if they're losing with prospects, but that's not the reality of the NHL. You get fired for losing, both men know that, and it's only natural for some panic to set in at times and force veterans to take on extra ice time because it seems safer.

I hate that aspect of this team, but it seems to be a reality. Gaglardi needs to step in and give them a true vote of confidence so both guys aren't panicking and trying to keep their jobs. If he's not willing to do that, then he needs to do the inevitable and find his own guys and allow them to truly rebuild this team and develop young talent.

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Old
02-06-2013, 04:46 PM
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The way Gulutzan is coaching right now ... to win at all costs ... is going to result in the team just missing the playoffs or barely sneaking in.

I don't think that's good enough. We're not the LA Kings. They actually did the right things and developed young players before adding some nice veteran pieces. Dallas is doing it ass backwards.

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02-06-2013, 05:07 PM
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Troy McClure
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
The way Gulutzan is coaching right now ... to win at all costs ... is going to result in the team just missing the playoffs or barely sneaking in.
How different would things be if he coached for next season? I think it would be pretty similar to what you see today.

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02-06-2013, 05:11 PM
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er....hello.....I....uh.... I just wanted to check and see.....you know....if ....uh....I was out of time-out yet?

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02-06-2013, 05:16 PM
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I think we're too close to opening a window where this team can be competitive to really think about tanking at this point. The Stars need to be looking at a deep playoff run by the latest at three years from now, otherwise the team will end up losing guys like Benn and Eriksson when their contracts run out.

Years of absolutely failure, plus wasted peak years, do not really tend to either attract free agents or compel your own players to resign.

This team needs to learn how to win, hopefully sign some decent free agents within the next 1-2 years, and cross their collective fingers that guys like Oleksiak, Dillon, etc. continue to pan out. And if all of that does work out, this team could be very good pretty soon.

But I really don't think that a season of "Oh don't worry lads, it's okay if you totally fail, this season is a write-off" is going to help the cause. And by saying "oh no, we're coaching for NEXT season," you're basically saying that.

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02-06-2013, 05:23 PM
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usefulfiction
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
The way Gulutzan is coaching right now ... to win at all costs ... is going to result in the team just missing the playoffs or barely sneaking in.

I don't think that's good enough. We're not the LA Kings. They actually did the right things and developed young players before adding some nice veteran pieces. Dallas is doing it ass backwards.
THIS. 100%. THIS.

I pray for a top 5 pick and fear the standard mid pack finish. At least then, this team can stop pretending we're something we're not.

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Old
02-06-2013, 05:25 PM
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er....hello.....I....uh.... I just wanted to check and see.....you know....if ....uh....I was out of time-out yet?
No posts for you!

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Old
02-06-2013, 05:33 PM
  #23
haf
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No posts for you!


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Old
02-06-2013, 05:59 PM
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BigG44
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THIS. 100%. THIS.

I pray for a top 5 pick and fear the standard mid pack finish. At least then, this team can stop pretending we're something we're not.
This isn't close to what I was saying. A Top 5 pick without significant injuries to this team is a fantasy.

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Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
How different would things be if he coached for next season? I think it would be pretty similar to what you see today.
It'll be significantly different. We've already watched Joe be reluctant to trade Modano and other veterans, but then he lets them walk via free agency because they didn't fit team needs. We've also seen him move veteran pieces lately in the leadership to remake the identity of the team.

One way or the other, I do believe this is Morrow's last year in Dallas, and I have some faith that Robidas will be gone at least by the time his contract expires if not sooner.

So .... you can keep forcing the vets in the lineup now, and I do believe they are only marginally better than the rookies/young guys, or you can go through the growing pains right now. Otherwise .. you're right. Next is just a repeat of this season which is a repeat of the last 4 season. How has this organization telling itself they can win right now turned out so far? Yep ... 4 missed playoffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorwiN View Post
But I really don't think that a season of "Oh don't worry lads, it's okay if you totally fail, this season is a write-off" is going to help the cause. And by saying "oh no, we're coaching for NEXT season," you're basically saying that.
Playing young players absolutely does not say this. Like I said above, if the veterans are better than the young guys, it's marginal, but I can guarantee one thing. The veterans are as good as they're going to get, and they're only going to get worst. Just like with Eriksson in the past, there's a very good opportunity you could be rewarded handsomely for suffering through some growing pains.

I think you have just as good a chance if not better to make the playoffs if you go ahead and commit to all of the younger guys on the 23 man roster. That means leaving the forward group the way it is. Those Top 12 are fine, but I wouldn't mind if some guys were moved around within it.

It's only a small move, but I do think it's important for Larsen to play. You can develop him like you developed Eriksson or you can develop him like you did Niskanen and Fistric. I'm not guaranteeing he'll be a future #1 D or even consistant Top 4, but I know he's not going to develop very well if he's not playing. I also know that as much as I've been pleasantly surprised by Rome, he's not the difference between this team winning or losing.

So yeah ... I want to be happy about all these young guys already in the line up. I am, but I don't think it's that shocking to point out the team is hurting another asset by repeating mistakes of the past.

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Old
02-06-2013, 06:01 PM
  #25
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Mike Milbury on NHL Live does not approve.

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