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Ray Shero

View Poll Results: Do you believe in Shero?
I believe in Shero. He´s immortal after he brough us Neal 75 43.60%
Mixed feelings, gonna give him some time 75 43.60%
No longer believing in him. He had an awful off-season 22 12.79%
Voters: 172. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-31-2013, 02:52 PM
  #151
Gooch
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Originally Posted by gordie View Post
Ray Shero is maybe the best in the league when it comes to the "Big Trade" but it is the smaller housekeeping moves like ridding the club of a waiver wire pickup from 2009 that is now 35 years old in Craig Adams with a younger replacement. These smaller changes keep the club fresh and competitive.
Glenn Sather is the master of the trade but you gotta keep him locked up every July.

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02-06-2013, 06:04 PM
  #152
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Goligoski is a healthy scratch tonight. Does this change any opinions?

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02-06-2013, 06:08 PM
  #153
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Goligoski is a healthy scratch tonight. Does this change any opinions?
Nope, they just want him to play better. Sometimes being a HS for a few games can light a fire under your ass. Although that deal is still lopsided HEAVILY towards us, but that's because Neal broke out with Malkin for 40 goals, aswell as Niskanen needed a change of scenery and has been great ever since back to his rookie year. Nobody saw this happening, not even Neal becoming a 40 goal scorer so fast, and almost a PPG player.

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02-06-2013, 06:20 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
Nope, they just want him to play better. Sometimes being a HS for a few games can light a fire under your ass. Although that deal is still lopsided HEAVILY towards us, but that's because Neal broke out with Malkin for 40 goals, aswell as Niskanen needed a change of scenery and has been great ever since back to his rookie year. Nobody saw this happening, not even Neal becoming a 40 goal scorer so fast, and almost a PPG player.
I dont know if I knew he would put up those numbers, but I know he was one of 3 young forward I loved. Bobby Ryan, James Neal, and Jamie Benn. When I saw the trade come down I figured we had to give up GoGo+ for him.


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02-06-2013, 06:33 PM
  #155
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Shero is simply an outstanding GM. Outstanding.

Minor quibbles aside, I'd rather have him at our helm than any other GM in the league.

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02-06-2013, 07:26 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Shero is simply an outstanding GM. Outstanding.

Minor quibbles aside, I'd rather have him at our helm than any other GM in the league.
Same here, although his patience frusterates me to hell sometimes.

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02-06-2013, 07:34 PM
  #157
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Same here, although his patience frusterates me to hell sometimes.
Understandable, but that's kind of the reason I like him actually. A lot of GM's might panic and destroy their team (*cough* Holmgren *cough*) when things aren't looking good.

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02-06-2013, 07:35 PM
  #158
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The results really surprise me. Shero is incredible imo.

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02-06-2013, 07:43 PM
  #159
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Understandable, but that's kind of the reason I like him actually. A lot of GM's might panic and destroy their team (*cough* Holmgren *cough*) when things aren't looking good.
Meh, young team. Not really "destroyed", although Richards and Carter trades were headscratchers. Flyers have alot of cap flexibility IIRC, so they can get a player or 2 and look dangerous. They need to rebuild that D, although it wont be easy without gutting the forwards. Perhaps they should have tried to rebuild the D instead of the forwards. Perhaps once Timonen retires, and they buy out Pronger, they will be able to get better at D.

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02-07-2013, 03:54 AM
  #160
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I've noticed a lot more people are silent about Ray Shero now that he's traded Lovejoy and we're winning. Color me shocked.

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02-07-2013, 04:37 AM
  #161
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My main issue with Shero is his drafting record is less than stellar. Other than that I like him.

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02-07-2013, 05:05 AM
  #162
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My main issue with Shero is his drafting record is less than stellar. Other than that I like him.
I personally think that is one of the worst arguments against him, and that is while being one of those who almost lost my mind when he drafted Pouliot.

Those drafted by Shero are just getting into the team now, and while a forward hit in latter rounds would have looked real nice, we have a strong system now, even if marquee forwards are obviously not there as we haven't gone for any other that Bennett who was 'only' a 20th pick.

Rather, I think he has gotten free agency - and most often the TDL - wrong more often than not when it comes to addressing our main needs (ie. not bottom 6 forwards). And that is not Monday Morning QB'ing at all, as lack of focus on D-toughness/size, lack of focus on the missing ingredients to our PP, lack of success getting compliments for Sid and Geno (can't say lack of focus there) etc... it has been evident.
Now, the last major piece here is Bylsma.... and I remain unconvinced.... yet hopeful that we will get our offensive game in shape in time for the playoffs. The D suddenly looks good, but to me that is because it suddenly has the complementarity and size/physicality many of us have been screaming for all along. If Shero and Bylsma had been clear on that being a missing link, it would have been made a priority in free agency/TDL, and it never was. Hence I cannot give them credit for Despres and Bortuzzo being big boys.

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02-07-2013, 05:44 AM
  #163
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My main issue with Shero is his drafting record is less than stellar. Other than that I like him.
That is somewhat untrue. His drafting record is incomplete. He traded two drafts to go after the cup (and succeeded) He literally walked right into 2006, so it was really only partially his draft. So what if he has taken mostly defenseman? So far we has proven that he can turn those young talented d-men for a kings ransom. I think it is still a wait and see scenerio.

My only complaint about Shero was the summer of Hossa he waited too long on him and lost out on the entire field. He learned from that (aka Gonchar) and will never do it again.

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02-07-2013, 07:07 AM
  #164
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I've noticed a lot more people are silent about Ray Shero now that he's traded Lovejoy and we're winning. Color me shocked.
Pretty sure Shero's employers don't judge him by regular season success. Here's how they look at him (six years of Sid and Geno):

2007 - Round One
2008 - SCF
2009 - Champs
2010 - Round Two
2011 - Round One
2011 - Round One

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02-07-2013, 07:13 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Pretty sure Shero's employers don't judge him by regular season success. Here's how they look at him (six years of Sid and Geno):

2007 - Round One
2008 - SCF
2009 - Champs
2010 - Round Two
2011 - Round One
2011 - Round One
I'm pretty sure Shero's employers don't give a **** about what the hoi polloi say either, KIRK. After all Shero's bosses just killed half a season to prove that they could.

But carry on.

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02-07-2013, 07:32 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Pretty sure Shero's employers don't judge him by regular season success. Here's how they look at him (six years of Sid and Geno):

2007 - Round One
2008 - SCF
2009 - Champs
2010 - Round Two
2011 - Round One
2011 - Round One
So...how many GMs have a better track record over that period?

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02-07-2013, 07:46 AM
  #167
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So...how many GMs have a better track record over that period?
Not many. What's your point? That THAT is enough for them, especially given the recent results or that there's no statute of limitations in terms of how the first three years play in how they would evaluate Shero's performance?

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02-07-2013, 07:52 AM
  #168
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I've noticed a lot more people are silent about Ray Shero now that he's traded Lovejoy and we're winning. Color me shocked.
Last time I checked, Boychuk and Dupuis were still playing in the top 6. The problem is still prevalent.

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02-07-2013, 07:58 AM
  #169
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Not many. What's your point? That THAT is enough for them, especially given the recent results or that there's no statute of limitations in terms of how the first three years play in how they would evaluate Shero's performance?
My point is that, using your words, Shero's employers judge him by his six-year track record. Not just three.

Since that six year track record is pretty much unarguably in the top handful in the league in spite of multiple major injuries to key players, I'm sure they're content to hang onto him.

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02-07-2013, 08:00 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
My point is that, using your words, Shero's employers judge him by his six-year track record. Not just three.

Since that six year track record is pretty much unarguably in the top handful in the league in spite of multiple major injuries to key players, I'm sure they're content to hang onto him.
Forever apparently from your perspective.

Oh, and without asking the question 'what other GM has had Crosby and Malkin'.

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02-07-2013, 08:01 AM
  #171
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The bottom line is, well, the bottom line. As KIRK points out, we have to start seeing playoff results. No matter how good Ray Shero is at trading, or how nice of a guy he appears to be. If he doesn't win another Cup relatively soon, he'll be gone.

This isn't a fair business, but it is what it is. And when you have two of the best players in the world, not just one, you have a target around your head. Win or else.

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02-07-2013, 08:08 AM
  #172
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The bottom line is, well, the bottom line. As KIRK points out, we have to start seeing playoff results. No matter how good Ray Shero is at trading, or how nice of a guy he appears to be. If he doesn't win another Cup relatively soon, he'll be gone.

This isn't a fair business, but it is what it is. And when you have two of the best players in the world, not just one, you have a target around your head. Win or else.
I'd be careful with that line of thought if I were you. Someone here might think about applying the same standard to the coaching staff.

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02-07-2013, 08:10 AM
  #173
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Forever apparently from your perspective.
No, not forever, but certainly not now. Like I said, that six-year track record is as good as just about anybody's.

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Oh, and without asking the question 'what other GM has had Crosby and Malkin'.
Nobody. But for a good portion of that time, Shero's also had to deal with the cap and roster constraints of having Malkin and Crosby on paper without having them on the ice.

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02-07-2013, 08:17 AM
  #174
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No, not forever, but certainly not now. Like I said, that six-year track record is as good as just about anybody's.



Nobody. But for a good portion of that time, Shero's also had to deal with the cap and roster constraints of having Malkin and Crosby on paper without having them on the ice.
And yet the issue is the most recent three years.

I mean, we apply the same standard to valuing the performance of players, no?

Check out Jonathan Cheechoo's 6 years in San Jose. As a six year body of work, it kind of resembles the same curve as the Penguins.

Evaluating the whole six years, you'd say he was a pretty nice goal scorer for a time.

Evaluating the three years after he potted 56. Different story.

Same goes for Shero.

The six year body of work is nice.

Evaluating the three years since winning the cup. Different story.

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02-07-2013, 08:20 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Pretty sure Shero's employers don't judge him by regular season success. Here's how they look at him (six years of Sid and Geno):

2007 - Round One
2008 - SCF
2009 - Champs
2010 - Round Two
2011 - Round One
2011 - Round One
Take sid and geno out of 2011 by the way. The first one that is!

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