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Old
02-06-2013, 06:27 PM
  #126
Tiranis
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Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
If there was a way to check the Monarchs' and Wolves' goal totals at the moment the lockout ended, that would be even more convincing (besides looking it up manually and doing the subtraction, that is).
12 goal difference (but 3 extra games): http://web.archive.org/web/201301150...type=standings Monarchs score about .1 goals more than the Wolves.

The thing is (and Hodgy very well knows this), Schroeder was 2nd/3rd in scoring on the Wolves all year and was only overtaken by Ebbett and Haydar on the last game or two before the lockout, but of course he won't point that out. What he also will refuse to point out is that the difference between Schroeder and the four guys ahead of him at the time of lockout was marginal (less than .1PPG), while the difference between Laktionov and the top two scorers is quite substantial (more than .2PPG).

Conveniently no mention of the fact that there's a 20 goal scorer on Loktionov's team while Schroeder led the Wolves in goals.

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02-06-2013, 06:35 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
The thing is (and Hodgy very well knows this), Schroeder was 2nd/3rd in scoring on the Wolves all year and was only overtaken by Ebbett and Haydar on the last game or two before the lockout, but of course he won't point that out. What he also will refuse to point out is that the difference between Schroeder and the four guys ahead of him at the time of lockout was marginal (less than .1PPG), while the difference between Laktionov and the top two scorers is quite substantial (more than .2PPG).

Conveniently no mention of the fact that there's a 20 goal scorer Loktionov's team (who he happened to play with) while Schroeder led the Wolves in goals.
This is a strawan argument. I never represented that I thought Loktionov was a better offensive player than Schroeder, or even produced more. I merely challenged the contention that Loktionov's production was "significantly worse."

I actually don't recall the bolded. Not to suggest you are wrong or lying, that could very well be the case. I am only going by the statistics I have available to me.

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Old
02-06-2013, 06:38 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Hodgy View Post
This is a strawan argument. I never represented that I thought Loktionov was a better offensive player than Schroeder, or even produced more. I merely challenged the contention that Loktionov's production was "significantly worse."
He scored .18GPG while Schroeder scored .3GPG. Schroeder played most of the season with guys who put up less than 10 points at the time of Schroeder's departure. Loktionov spent the season going between the other Top 5 scorers on the Monarchs and never played with anyone else. I would consider that a substantially worse production given that he was drafted in 2008.

(And the whole four months older thing is a pointless argument considering it's mostly about how many seasons of experience you have and Loktionov, given his birthday is in May, would likely have more.)


Last edited by Tiranis: 02-06-2013 at 06:44 PM.
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02-06-2013, 06:47 PM
  #129
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He scored .18GPG while Schroeder scored .3GPG. Schroeder played most of the season with guys who put up less than 10 points at the time of Schroeder's departure. Loktionov spent the season going between the other Top 5 scorers on the Monarchs and never played with anyone else. I would consider that a substantially worse production given that he was drafted in 2008.
Again, you are retroactively qualifying your initial point by now emphasizing goals per game, opposed to points per game, which is generally associated with offensive production. Also again, Schroeder is only 4 months younger than Loktioniv. Moreover, you are delving into reasons why Schroeder's production may have been more impressive than Loktioniv's. Your original contention was a flat-out assertion that Loktioniv's offensive production (which seems to imply a statistic...) was "significantly worse".

But anyway, again, I think it is quite obvious that your original statement was a gross exaggeration.

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Old
02-06-2013, 06:48 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
12 goal difference (but 3 extra games): http://web.archive.org/web/201301150...type=standings Monarchs score about .1 goals more than the Wolves.

The thing is (and Hodgy very well knows this), Schroeder was 2nd/3rd in scoring on the Wolves all year and was only overtaken by Ebbett and Haydar on the last game or two before the lockout, but of course he won't point that out. What he also will refuse to point out is that the difference between Schroeder and the four guys ahead of him at the time of lockout was marginal (less than .1PPG), while the difference between Laktionov and the top two scorers is quite substantial (more than .2PPG).

Conveniently no mention of the fact that there's a 20 goal scorer on Loktionov's team while Schroeder led the Wolves in goals.
It's only fair he doesn't point that out if you don't point out the fact Loktionov has had a more productive career than Schroeder at the AHL level up to this point. 24P in 29GP as a rookie, 38P in 53GP as a sophomore and 20P in 32GP last year...

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02-06-2013, 06:50 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Hodgy View Post
Again, you are retroactively qualifying your initial point by now emphasizing goals per game, opposed to points per game, which is generally associated with offensive production. Also again, Schroeder is only 4 months younger than Loktioniv. Moreover, you are delving into reasons why Schroeder's production may have been more impressive than Loktioniv's. Your original contention was a flat-out assertion that Loktioniv's offensive production (which seems to imply a statistic...) was "significantly worse".

But anyway, again, I think it is quite obvious that your original statement was a gross exaggeration.
Do I really have to say "given their circumstances"? I also don't see why I have to specifically say that 'production' has to consider goals and not just points. Seemed obvious to me.

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02-06-2013, 06:51 PM
  #132
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(And the whole four months older thing is a pointless argument considering it's mostly about how many seasons of experience you have and Loktionov, given his birthday is in May, would likely have more.)
Is that true? IIRC (thinking back to my minor hockey days) you played with people in the same academic grade with you, which comprised of January-December. Thus, Loktionov and Schroeder (and Hodgson for that matter) would all have played the same amount of years. Of course this is an oversimplification and only relates back to my experience in Vancouver. Russia would likely have a different system.

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02-06-2013, 06:53 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Hodgy View Post
Is that true? IIRC (thinking back to my minor hockey days) you played with people in the same academic grade with you, which comprised of January-December. Thus, Loktionov and Schroeder (and Hodgson for that matter) would all have played the same amount of years. Of course this is an oversimplification and only relates back to my experience in Vancouver. Russia would likely have a different system.
Russia goes by academic year. Not sure about the US program, but I think it might too.

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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
It's only fair he doesn't point that out if you don't point out the fact Loktionov has had a more productive career than Schroeder at the AHL level up to this point. 24P in 29GP as a rookie, 38P in 53GP as a sophomore and 20P in 32GP last year...
Seems like an exaggeration, considering 20 points (and measly 5 goals) in 32GP is marginally less than what Schroeder put up this year. That's ignoring that the AHL was far more competitive this year.

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02-06-2013, 06:57 PM
  #134
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Do I really have to say "given their circumstances"? I also don't see why I have to specifically say that 'production' has to consider goals and not just points. Seemed obvious to me.
This is getting kind of ridiculous.

Are you really now going to maintain that it is "obvious" that "offensive production" refers to GPG opposed to PPG?

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02-06-2013, 06:57 PM
  #135
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This is getting kind of ridiculous.

Are you really now going to maintain that it is "obvious" that "offensive production" refers to GPG opposed to PPG?
It refers to both, for me anyway. If I had two players that both put up same point totals, I would certainly think the 20 goal scorer was more impressive than the 10 goal scorer.

Anyway, I'm done here. This is getting silly. Clearly we won't ever agree with each other so I think it's best for both of us to move on.

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02-06-2013, 07:18 PM
  #136
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I bet Loktionov would be lighting it up between Vanek and Pominville.

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Old
02-06-2013, 07:38 PM
  #137
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Plekanec...

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02-06-2013, 07:43 PM
  #138
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Plekanec...
No doubt. Breakaway. Shoots puck into corner.

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02-06-2013, 07:48 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
12 goal difference (but 3 extra games): http://web.archive.org/web/201301150...type=standings Monarchs score about .1 goals more than the Wolves.

The thing is (and Hodgy very well knows this), Schroeder was 2nd/3rd in scoring on the Wolves all year and was only overtaken by Ebbett and Haydar on the last game or two before the lockout, but of course he won't point that out. What he also will refuse to point out is that the difference between Schroeder and the four guys ahead of him at the time of lockout was marginal (less than .1PPG), while the difference between Laktionov and the top two scorers is quite substantial (more than .2PPG).

Conveniently no mention of the fact that there's a 20 goal scorer on Loktionov's team while Schroeder led the Wolves in goals.
Oh, I see. Pretty useful actually - thanks for this.

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02-06-2013, 07:57 PM
  #140
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02-06-2013, 08:12 PM
  #141
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Report- Flyers are on the verge of re-signing Kimmo Timonen to a 1-yr deal for 6 million. Official announcement expected by week's end

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02-06-2013, 08:13 PM
  #142
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Ouch. Timonen definitely didn't take a discount to stay with Philly.
$6 mil is too much.

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02-06-2013, 08:15 PM
  #143
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Ouch. Timonen definitely didn't take a discount to stay with Philly.
$6 mil is too much.
He knows they really need him, so he demanded more.

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02-06-2013, 08:17 PM
  #144
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He knows they really need him, so he demanded more.
Ed Zachery.

Desperate is as desperate does.

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02-06-2013, 08:21 PM
  #145
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Timonen for 6??? That's gross

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02-06-2013, 08:23 PM
  #146
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Oh... Here comes Cousin Dregs to talk about his cousin Dave's team and the Kessel rumors.

"Rumor has it that one western conference team has offered 2 franchise forwards, a franchise D and 2 - 1st round picks. The Leafs however are exploring all options and waiting for the best deal."

More or less.... He'll say this.

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02-06-2013, 08:24 PM
  #147
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Timonen for 6??? That's gross
Of course that's gross.

Still must be netting at least 4.5 though.


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02-06-2013, 08:25 PM
  #148
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Oh... Here comes Cousin Dregs to talk about his cousin Dave's team and the Kessel rumors.

"Rumor has it that one western conference team has offered 2 franchise forwards, a franchise D and 2 - 1st round picks. The Leafs however are exploring all options and waiting for the best deal."

More or less.... He'll say this.
"Luongo, Kesler and 2 1sts, Canucks to eat 50% of Luongo's contract"

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02-06-2013, 08:28 PM
  #149
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Timonen for 6??? That's gross
Especially since the cap is dropping too.
It's the equivalent of $6.55 mil with a $70.2 mil cap.

He really cares about the Flyers.

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02-06-2013, 09:09 PM
  #150
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Ducks acquire D Ben Lovejoy from Pittsburgh for a fifth-round pick in 2014. Lovejoy will join team in Dallas.

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