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Time to make Moves?? (Post trade proposals & rumors here)

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Old
02-06-2013, 10:00 PM
  #76
doublechili
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You have to go back to the summer Smyth elected not to re-sign and they lost several other players to UFA. Remember the entire NHL roster had like 10 players before they signed Jon Sim on like July 5th. From that time forward it's been a from-scratch rebuild for the most part.

I agree at some point you have to expect results, but you can reasonably say there has not been a whole lot of time for newly drafted players to mature sufficiently, or to build enough depth, for them to be able to trade some away.

However, I think the roster is about at the point where they can start making some deals from depth to acquire higher quality: either players in their prime or young studs. The question will be, is Wang willing to pay the necessary $$$ before Brooklyn?

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02-07-2013, 10:29 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by doublechili View Post
You have to go back to the summer Smyth elected not to re-sign and they lost several other players to UFA. Remember the entire NHL roster had like 10 players before they signed Jon Sim on like July 5th. From that time forward it's been a from-scratch rebuild for the most part.

I agree at some point you have to expect results, but you can reasonably say there has not been a whole lot of time for newly drafted players to mature sufficiently, or to build enough depth, for them to be able to trade some away.

However, I think the roster is about at the point where they can start making some deals from depth to acquire higher quality: either players in their prime or young studs. The question will be, is Wang willing to pay the necessary $$$ before Brooklyn?
agree.

the problem is the depth is in PROSPECTS, not on the team itself. And no team wants prospects in-season. At the deadline, teams will want help for NOW, with expiring contracts, and all the Isles have to offer are: Nabokov, Visnovsky, Boyes, Martinek, maybe Streit if you want to deal your captain, at the weakest position no less?

There's nothing coming back that will significantly help this team next year, not for these guys.

Would Streit to the Pens for Olli Maata or Scott Harrington be a deal worth making? What about Streit to Philly for Couturier? or their counter, Wayne Simmonds?

Outside the conference: Streit to DET for Gustav Nyquist or Brendan Smith?

I don't think trades are the way to go.

UFAs is probably a better idea but that will mean a drastic overpayment that is often a bad move, both financially AND on-ice.

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02-07-2013, 10:36 AM
  #78
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Even without taking into consideration the high end prospects in Bridgeport that are knocking on the door, this is the deepest Islanders team and prospect pool I've seen in a very long time. There is no need to add anymore quantity in the form of forwards for lines 2-4, or depth defensemen for slots other than the top pairing. We have plenty of quantity. We are at a point now, any moves we make would specifically have to be for a true first line winger for Tavares or a top pairing D-man (quality)...

Any moves would have to package a bit of this quantity (without mortgaging the future) for true quality, otherwise, there is no reason to make a move. Just stay the course..

If we can get a true first line winger that helps us get better now, as well as fits long term and the deal is favorable, perhaps Garth pulls the trigger... Same thing for a top pairing D-man.

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02-07-2013, 10:42 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
agree.

the problem is the depth is in PROSPECTS, not on the team itself. And no team wants prospects in-season. At the deadline, teams will want help for NOW, with expiring contracts, and all the Isles have to offer are: Nabokov, Visnovsky, Boyes, Martinek, maybe Streit if you want to deal your captain, at the weakest position no less?

There's nothing coming back that will significantly help this team next year, not for these guys.

Would Streit to the Pens for Olli Maata or Scott Harrington be a deal worth making? What about Streit to Philly for Couturier? or their counter, Wayne Simmonds?

Outside the conference: Streit to DET for Gustav Nyquist or Brendan Smith?

I don't think trades are the way to go.

UFAs is probably a better idea but that will mean a drastic overpayment that is often a bad move, both financially AND on-ice.
The first portion that I bolded was pretty reasonable for a trade deadline proposal. I like Olli Maata...... But then you started getting a bit crazy.. Couturier for Streit???? Are you kidding me?? Couturier is a 6'4 20 year old stud center. He is a huge part of Philly's future. Trading him for a 36 year old declining by the minute defenseman, and I use the word 'defense' very loosely with Streit.. Craziness!!

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02-07-2013, 11:00 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I think if fans think Snow's moving off his rebuild stance, going to trade for high priced impending ufas, they will be disappointed.
I wont be disappointed in the slightest if he starts making solid moves. Look trades happen all the time and for some reason we keep believing that to get a PK Subban or a Perry we need to give up a Wayne Gretzky package for them.

If you dont believe that Tavares needs serious help on the 1st line then I dont know what to tell you. We cant keep waiting for miracles from the waiver wire. We need to make moves.

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02-07-2013, 11:34 AM
  #81
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I think the Isles are waiting till the summer to make a splash. There's a ton of talent and I wouldn't mind trying to nab Iginla to help the JT line...He is getting old, but can really help JT improve his game to the next level. I'd say Semin too, but I'd only do it if he signed in the area of 4.5 mill or less.

We are kinda deep at center, but I'd be happy to try for Getzlaf as well.

I'd even sign Adrian Aucoin so we don't get stuck with a half assed top 6 and give our prospects time to fit in. Not to mention to also confuse Butchy assuming Keith is still on the team 8-)

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02-07-2013, 02:34 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
agree.

the problem is the depth is in PROSPECTS, not on the team itself. And no team wants prospects in-season. At the deadline, teams will want help for NOW, with expiring contracts, and all the Isles have to offer are: Nabokov, Visnovsky, Boyes, Martinek, maybe Streit if you want to deal your captain, at the weakest position no less?

There's nothing coming back that will significantly help this team next year, not for these guys.

Would Streit to the Pens for Olli Maata or Scott Harrington be a deal worth making? What about Streit to Philly for Couturier? or their counter, Wayne Simmonds?

Outside the conference: Streit to DET for Gustav Nyquist or Brendan Smith?

I don't think trades are the way to go.

UFAs is probably a better idea but that will mean a drastic overpayment that is often a bad move, both financially AND on-ice.
I hear what you're saying. Historically, those vets listed will get you draft picks at the deadline for exactly the reason you stated - maybe you get a prospect, but that's more unusual.

I think if you have depth and cap space (and a willingness to spend - big if), there are a lot of things you can do to improve. Prospects/players can be packaged for an upgrade in prospects. Or they can be dealt for an actual player on the outs elsewhere.

Hey, question on that subject. What's the deal with Ryan Whitney in Edmonton? I haven't seen enough of him in recent years to know how he's playing, but on paper there's a still relatively youngish d-man with size and some offense. I see the Isles and Edm as good trade partners. Just wondering. While we're at it, Paajarvi too.

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02-07-2013, 03:30 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Dutch Frost View Post
I wont be disappointed in the slightest if he starts making solid moves. Look trades happen all the time and for some reason we keep believing that to get a PK Subban or a Perry we need to give up a Wayne Gretzky package for them.

If you dont believe that Tavares needs serious help on the 1st line then I dont know what to tell you. We cant keep waiting for miracles from the waiver wire. We need to make moves.
Have you noticed that no other team has been able to pry away Subban or Perry? What does that tell you about the type of package you would need?

How many impact young players are traded? I would say Richards and Carter are the last two I can think of. And that Carter trade didn't end up too well for Columbus. And I doubt there was any chance Philly would have moved them within the division anyway.

Before that was Phil Kessel, and how many of you would want to make a similar deal?

Trades happen all the time, but not trades involving young high end players. Those kinds of deals are rare, and generally require a package involving several top prospects/young players.

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02-08-2013, 01:29 PM
  #84
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There is no question that trades are lacking and need to happen on Long Island.

Maybe Garth is a bit gun shy although I am not sure why. I do the Ryan Smyth deal 10 out of 10 times if I could do it again, even if he was not signing here. We gave up nothing in that deal.

And now — we have a great many assets. I am not suggesting we move Strome or Nino or even Renihart. I am suggesting that a bold move — perhaps a move that sends a first round pick and young player to a team in need of building a bit, but it can give our own build a boost.

A lot of Isles fans see Keith Yandle as a target. I am not sold on if the Yotes would move him. If he is on the block — sure, take a run at him. he would be an upgrade for us, and give us a top 3 including A-Mac and Hamonic which would be pretty darn impressive. In any event — I do want to see Snow swing a deal.

You can't keep all of the prospects you have as it is. Next season you are going to see more than likely, Nino, Nelson, Donovan, de Haan all on Long Island. Perhaps Strome as well. Just taking the forwards in that scenario...

Tavares, Strome, Okposo, Grabner, Neilsen, Moulson, Nelson, Cizikas, Niederreiter, Martin — those 10 are under contract. This does not include Bailey or Ullstrom — both have contracts up at year's end and are RFAs. If you include those 2 — that's 12 forwards, 5 of whom are centers...

Are we really going to see this for 2013-14...???

Moulson - Tavares - Neiderreitter
Nelson - Strome - Grabner
Bailey - Neilsen - Okposo
Ullstrom - Cizikas - Martin

That is a lot of youth, and as much as there is skill their, but is that 3rd line going to be able to shut anyone down?

Point is — you can't keep everyone. Moves are needed to address problem spots. Nabokov wont be back next year, who is the starter? Poulin? Nilsson? Maybe we will yet deal for a goalie. Is Streit back next year? We go with Hamonic, A-Mac, Strait for sure — but can we count on Donovan and de Haan to carry a heavy load?

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02-08-2013, 03:21 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by HyeDray View Post
Point is — you can't keep everyone. Moves are needed to address problem spots. Nabokov wont be back next year, who is the starter? Poulin? Nilsson? Maybe we will yet deal for a goalie. Is Streit back next year? We go with Hamonic, A-Mac, Strait for sure — but can we count on Donovan and de Haan to carry a heavy load?
I think we have a lot of young prospects but it's impossible to think that all of them will make the NHL. There will be some Kyle Beach or Justin Mapletoft types that simply won't be good enough. But I'm afraid that none will be impact players, enough to make the team better.

Nino Niederreiter might not be a 30 goal guy. What if he takes a Taylor Pyatt path? Will Ryan Strome be like Kyle Wellwood?

Brock Nelson could be Ryan Malone or JVR or Couturier or Joe Colborne.

Isles fans (especially) run the danger of assuming these young players will reach their max upside and contribute at a level where we WANT them to. But sometimes, young small defensemen (like Hickey) don't become Rafalski, they remain more like Nick Leddy or Brett Lebda or Bruno Gervais.

Ty Wishart and Griffin Reinhart and Chris Pronger and Erik Johnson share a lot of similarities and at one time, showed promise.

We don't know what we have, we only know what we MIGHT have.

Tavares is the ONLY Isles prospect since Lafontaine that came in and delivered as expected, and not even right away, it took 3 years.

If we want Yandle, the price might be something like Nino, deHaan and a #1 pick. Dreger believes the price for Kessel is about the same.
Would the Isles deal Strome, Okposo and a #1 pick for Kessel? Cuz that might get it done. But I'd imagine Isles fans would freak out at that price becaues Strome could be the #2 Centre we need and the #1 pick might be the next Jeff Skinner.

The Isles CANNOT trade and get better unless they are taking on salary. Salary/Cap Space is the ONE ASSET the Isles have that has market value, and only to a few teams that are trying to win, hence, spending close to the cap. But that's not something Wang/Snow have shown any interest in leveraging, as evidenced by the Thomas move.

So we stick to the draft, internal development, prayer and voodoo combined. And hope we don't break Tavares, Hamonic, MacDonald along the way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublechili View Post
Hey, question on that subject. What's the deal with Ryan Whitney in Edmonton? I haven't seen enough of him in recent years to know how he's playing, but on paper there's a still relatively youngish d-man with size and some offense. I see the Isles and Edm as good trade partners. Just wondering. While we're at it, Paajarvi too.
I've seen almost all the Oilers games this year. Whitney's fallen into a #3-4 dman. Justin Schultz has outplayed him by a wide margin, getting more minutes, more PP time. Whitney's terrible defensively (I think he's paired with Smid) but hardly what a $4MM dman should be. He's like Streit, good offensively, not great defensively, shows flashes. Striet's a better player IMO. Whitney's a UFA at the end of the year. I believe he'll be dealt if the Oilers are out of the playoffs, but I have a feeling they'll make it (or be close to it)

On Paajarvi, his upside is what David Ullstrom is now. He's a terrible player, 8-9 minutes per night, skates hard, kinda lost on the ice. Even Matt Martin is a better player if you remove his physical play, toughness and fighting. Paajarvi seems lost offensively.

If he were drafted in the 4th-5th round, it wouldn't be such a failure, but given he was top ten, people expect more (see Josh Bailey, who it TEN TIMES the player Paajarvi is).

Expectations based on draft position or salary - that's what ruins things at times.

btw, we should have signed Redden. He looks really good in STL!

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02-08-2013, 06:48 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
I think we have a lot of young prospects but it's impossible to think that all of them will make the NHL. There will be some Kyle Beach or Justin Mapletoft types that simply won't be good enough. But I'm afraid that none will be impact players, enough to make the team better.

Nino Niederreiter might not be a 30 goal guy. What if he takes a Taylor Pyatt path? Will Ryan Strome be like Kyle Wellwood?

Brock Nelson could be Ryan Malone or JVR or Couturier or Joe Colborne.

Isles fans (especially) run the danger of assuming these young players will reach their max upside and contribute at a level where we WANT them to. But sometimes, young small defensemen (like Hickey) don't become Rafalski, they remain more like Nick Leddy or Brett Lebda or Bruno Gervais.

Ty Wishart and Griffin Reinhart and Chris Pronger and Erik Johnson share a lot of similarities and at one time, showed promise.

We don't know what we have, we only know what we MIGHT have.

Tavares is the ONLY Isles prospect since Lafontaine that came in and delivered as expected, and not even right away, it took 3 years.

If we want Yandle, the price might be something like Nino, deHaan and a #1 pick. Dreger believes the price for Kessel is about the same.
Would the Isles deal Strome, Okposo and a #1 pick for Kessel? Cuz that might get it done. But I'd imagine Isles fans would freak out at that price becaues Strome could be the #2 Centre we need and the #1 pick might be the next Jeff Skinner.

The Isles CANNOT trade and get better unless they are taking on salary. Salary/Cap Space is the ONE ASSET the Isles have that has market value, and only to a few teams that are trying to win, hence, spending close to the cap. But that's not something Wang/Snow have shown any interest in leveraging, as evidenced by the Thomas move.

So we stick to the draft, internal development, prayer and voodoo combined. And hope we don't break Tavares, Hamonic, MacDonald along the way.
Wow, really well said Redbull, and I wouldn't change a word of it. Your notes on the salary cap space asset in particular. It is entirely frustrating to watch Tavares between two useless wings when all Wang has to do is take on one bloated salary that another team would love to lose.

On Hye Drey's question regarding Snow's seeming fear of making a trade at this point, I don't think it is a fear at all. I think it is blatantly obvious the Garth has been given a million or so above the cap floor as his salary ceiling. That's why he doesn't make any trades, because we would end up gaining some amount of salary. If a $5 million player would cost us a lesser player who costs $1.5 million, a prospect on an ELC Making $1 mill, and a pick that costs $0, that means Chucky has to fork out an additional $2.5 million a year. I couldn't spell it out any plainer than that. It is all about keeping it cheap, and nothing about winning or developing players.


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02-08-2013, 09:52 PM
  #87
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There is no question that trades are lacking and need to happen on Long Island.

Maybe Garth is a bit gun shy although I am not sure why. I do the Ryan Smyth deal 10 out of 10 times if I could do it again, even if he was not signing here. We gave up nothing in that deal.

And now — we have a great many assets. I am not suggesting we move Strome or Nino or even Renihart. I am suggesting that a bold move — perhaps a move that sends a first round pick and young player to a team in need of building a bit, but it can give our own build a boost.

A lot of Isles fans see Keith Yandle as a target. I am not sold on if the Yotes would move him. If he is on the block — sure, take a run at him. he would be an upgrade for us, and give us a top 3 including A-Mac and Hamonic which would be pretty darn impressive. In any event — I do want to see Snow swing a deal.

You can't keep all of the prospects you have as it is. Next season you are going to see more than likely, Nino, Nelson, Donovan, de Haan all on Long Island. Perhaps Strome as well. Just taking the forwards in that scenario...

Tavares, Strome, Okposo, Grabner, Neilsen, Moulson, Nelson, Cizikas, Niederreiter, Martin — those 10 are under contract. This does not include Bailey or Ullstrom — both have contracts up at year's end and are RFAs. If you include those 2 — that's 12 forwards, 5 of whom are centers...

Are we really going to see this for 2013-14...???

Moulson - Tavares - Neiderreitter
Nelson - Strome - Grabner
Bailey - Neilsen - Okposo
Ullstrom - Cizikas - Martin

That is a lot of youth, and as much as there is skill their, but is that 3rd line going to be able to shut anyone down?

Point is — you can't keep everyone. Moves are needed to address problem spots. Nabokov wont be back next year, who is the starter? Poulin? Nilsson? Maybe we will yet deal for a goalie. Is Streit back next year? We go with Hamonic, A-Mac, Strait for sure — but can we count on Donovan and de Haan to carry a heavy load?
I actually could see the Islanders wanting to resign Nabokov and, unless the wheels fall off, I hope they do. While I still think Nilsson and Poulin could potentially be something, their current seasons don't lead to much optimism. So, if we did not have Nabokov, where would we be? Until one of the guys in the AHL, or Koskinen, shows something more, we have questions in net, too. Nabokov has started out the season in stellar fashion, and then had some more shaky outtings, but he's better than anything else we have...by a far margin. Anyone else agree? Disagree?

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02-10-2013, 05:22 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
I think we have a lot of young prospects but it's impossible to think that all of them will make the NHL. There will be some Kyle Beach or Justin Mapletoft types that simply won't be good enough. But I'm afraid that none will be impact players, enough to make the team better.

Nino Niederreiter might not be a 30 goal guy. What if he takes a Taylor Pyatt path? Will Ryan Strome be like Kyle Wellwood?

Brock Nelson could be Ryan Malone or JVR or Couturier or Joe Colborne.

Isles fans (especially) run the danger of assuming these young players will reach their max upside and contribute at a level where we WANT them to. But sometimes, young small defensemen (like Hickey) don't become Rafalski, they remain more like Nick Leddy or Brett Lebda or Bruno Gervais.

Ty Wishart and Griffin Reinhart and Chris Pronger and Erik Johnson share a lot of similarities and at one time, showed promise.

We don't know what we have, we only know what we MIGHT have.

Tavares is the ONLY Isles prospect since Lafontaine that came in and delivered as expected, and not even right away, it took 3 years.

If we want Yandle, the price might be something like Nino, deHaan and a #1 pick. Dreger believes the price for Kessel is about the same.
Would the Isles deal Strome, Okposo and a #1 pick for Kessel? Cuz that might get it done. But I'd imagine Isles fans would freak out at that price becaues Strome could be the #2 Centre we need and the #1 pick might be the next Jeff Skinner.
I agree. Ultimately, dealing a guy like Cizikas or Ullstrom won't yield us a high return. Those players are young, but likely will be 3rd line players. While a player like Nino or Strome have much higher trade value because the potential is still high (even on Nino.)

I think if the Isles deal it will be a center. Strome, Nelson, Cizikas, Ullstrom can all play center. We have 2 guys in theory to slot in as the #2 center. Strome and Nelson. I suppose one of those two will move to the wing, because are either going to be 3rd line? Maybe the plan is to have Tavares as the #1, followed by Strome, then Nelson, and then Neilsen. But that has problems as well. It lacks size other then Nelson. Plenty of skill, but where is the shut down?

Id like to see the Isles compete this season. And with 4 losses now, and being realistic, I never felt the Isles would make the playoffs this year. But I am not looking for the 1st overall either. I would like to see broader success start now so we can build on it for next season.

The Thomas move allows for the Isles to move Streit, Visnovsky or Nabokov or all 3 at the deadline. My guess is that Streit will be retained. Snow will want continuity, and the idea of going with so much inexperience on the blue line is not smart. I think Snow is prepared for that.

But, the Isles also need a vet — someone who can still play for the next 6-8 seasons. Someone who has won it all. This is where I think Snow missed an opportunity. A deal with the Hawks after they needed to deal salary made so much sense. And as much as I like Matt Martin, if the rumor was true that a deal hinged on the Isles dealing Martin for one of Versteeg, Sharp or Byfuglin. Adding a player or 2 who can still play (not a guy with 2 years left) and who can settle the boys down is so key.

I am more inclined to see Snow make a deal rather than hinge it on UFAs. The UFA route has not worked, and if the plan is to be prepped for Brooklyn with the potential to win, players will need to be in place in the next season or two.

Anyone is available for a deal — for the right price. Perhaps the lone exception in my mind would include Tavares, Moulson, Hamonic and Neilsen. I am less inclined to move Strome, Nino or Nelson as well. I would be more interested dealing an Okposo, Bailey, Donovan, Andres Lee type of player. These are guys who can play some, and a few have potential. Id consider moving Nino for the right price.

My goal would be to make a deal with a western conference team. I would not want to battle guys I trade for a playoff spot. Does a 1st rd pick, a 3rd rd pk. Kyle Okposo and Donovan get us a guy like Yandle? I think it would. Yotes fans would suggest it doesn't. So would others. But if you look at some of the deals made with marquee guys... I am always surprised at what is in the deal.

Voracek, 8th overall pick, and a 3rd, went back to the Flyers for Jeff Carter. My guess is if that was proposed by a Jackets fan over on the trade boards, they would have flamed him.

I believe, what would be a high 1st rd pick (probably top 10-12), a high 3rd and a strong d-prospect, and an established wing would likely yield a player like Yandle. Now Yandle would not address the Isles need for that vet "winner" but he would clearly lock up our blueline in solid fashion. To me — that is the kind of bold move we need. Sure we give up a little bit of our future with the picks, and a member of what is our core, but a shake-up is needed, and this would give the Isles a swift kick. (A new head coach would also help)

Now — we are all looking at Yandle, and thinking he's available — but is he??

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02-10-2013, 06:42 PM
  #89
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I know this may not be the most popular suggestion but I am surprised not to hear Moulson's name as a trade chip.. hear me out before you jump on me. I have met Moulson 2 times, he seems like a great guy, great attitude and he wants to be here, I get that. He does one thing incredibly well that is score garbage goals. However, he does nothing else better than average and many things below average. Going to every home game and watching him float, I have come to believe that he is a handcuff for JT, that JT will never be solidly a plus player and reach his full all around potential with Moulson on his line. Yes they have goal scoring chemistry but, i find that is a bit of a smoke screen since Moulson does not create any chances and is a defensive liablity. This is not a personal attack because I think he has been a great teammate and representative but if this team is to move forward it will take better all around guys like fully matured Nino, Strome, Bailey, Ullstrom, Nelson or some UFA/draft pick to let JT reach his total potential in all facets.

I think he should be a candidate to trade since he has a cap friendly salary and may bring back value.
I am not a Moulson hater, just trying to imagine what this team will need to reach the next level. Just my opinion.

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02-10-2013, 09:20 PM
  #90
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Moulson is a perfect trigger man for JT. What JT needs is a playmaking skilled winger who can get him the puck in a position where he can make plays. Boyes and OK have been subpar at that role. Nino would clear space for him, but he's still too young and inexperienced....

The more i think about it, i might actually like to see Bailey in that role for a bit. Strome, in a few years, would be ideal. I also think this team is dying for a 2nd Line Center...No matter how much we try, it just isnt Frans. He screams 3rd line center so loudly its not funny. Is it too early to try Brock there? Maybe bailey?

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02-10-2013, 11:00 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by TeamKidd View Post
Moulson is a perfect trigger man for JT. What JT needs is a playmaking skilled winger who can get him the puck in a position where he can make plays. Boyes and OK have been subpar at that role. Nino would clear space for him, but he's still too young and inexperienced....

The more i think about it, i might actually like to see Bailey in that role for a bit. Strome, in a few years, would be ideal. I also think this team is dying for a 2nd Line Center...No matter how much we try, it just isnt Frans. He screams 3rd line center so loudly its not funny. Is it too early to try Brock there? Maybe bailey?
Frans will have to suffice as our 2C for now, I think Strome will eventually take that spot (maybe next season?). Bailey has proven to be a much much better winger than center, I say we keep him there and put him on JT's wing like you said. We aren't utilizing JT, our biggest weapon, to his fullest. Moulson is perfect for the JT line but we do need a winger that can dish the puck and not just wait to be set up, someone like Bailey. Boyes is a bury the puck kinda guy, he is not going to make nifty passes for JT like Bailey would.

IMO Bailey is a no brainer for the 1st line at this point

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02-11-2013, 08:44 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by 19 in a row View Post
I know this may not be the most popular suggestion but I am surprised not to hear Moulson's name as a trade chip.. hear me out before you jump on me. I have met Moulson 2 times, he seems like a great guy, great attitude and he wants to be here, I get that. He does one thing incredibly well that is score garbage goals. However, he does nothing else better than average and many things below average. Going to every home game and watching him float, I have come to believe that he is a handcuff for JT, that JT will never be solidly a plus player and reach his full all around potential with Moulson on his line. Yes they have goal scoring chemistry but, i find that is a bit of a smoke screen since Moulson does not create any chances and is a defensive liablity. This is not a personal attack because I think he has been a great teammate and representative but if this team is to move forward it will take better all around guys like fully matured Nino, Strome, Bailey, Ullstrom, Nelson or some UFA/draft pick to let JT reach his total potential in all facets.

I think he should be a candidate to trade since he has a cap friendly salary and may bring back value.
I am not a Moulson hater, just trying to imagine what this team will need to reach the next level. Just my opinion.
The reasons for me to not deal Moulson are simple...

He has chemistry with JT, and that line is our only consistent scoring line — garbage goals or not. Risking messing that up when you are struggling is dangerous. There is no guarantee that what comes back in a deal, or what moves into that position will be able to click with Tavares.

He has a cap friendly deal. And that is reason enough for this owner, at this time. Wang is all about bang for buck, especially until we get to Brooklyn.

Lastly, I think that keeping JT happy is a good thing. He is out one true star right now and he is allowing the team to stay afloat — even if barely. A pissed off JT is not something I would want. If he requested a trade, the franchise would be dead for the next 25 years.

Id add — that perhaps next season is the time to deal Moulson at the deadline.

And I would also suggest that no player should be off limits with the possible exception of Tavares. But a return for Moulson would need to be pretty amazing for me to consider dealing him*— and we know Snow has a set idea of an asking price, and it is pretty high for his players. Something along the lines of a Corry Perry at minimum. Most will see that as overpayment. Perhaps the Isles would need to attach a pick along with Moulson —*OK. But a high caliber top line wing better be coming back in a deal for Moulson — and one who is in his prime, not some has-been.


Last edited by HyeDray: 02-11-2013 at 08:49 AM.
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02-11-2013, 09:10 AM
  #93
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Like the above poster said, you cant trade moulson, for the next 5 years because he may be the difference between tavares requesting a trade or staying. Asuming they dont make the playoffs this year, and dont raise the payroll next year, at best Tavares sees the playoffs in 3,4 or 5 years from now. So really Moulson, and a easy travel schedule is all the Isles have to offer tavares.

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02-11-2013, 10:35 AM
  #94
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I would go after Douglas Murray of the Sharks. San Jose has a surplus of defenders right now, and Murray looks like the odd man out. Even though he is a UFA at the end of the year, he has been around LI for parts of his younger career, and has some connections to NY. He is a physical defender who can lay out huge hits, but can also drop the gloves when the time is necessary. A better version of Matt Carkner.

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02-11-2013, 11:01 AM
  #95
19 in a row
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Originally Posted by HyeDray View Post
The reasons for me to not deal Moulson are simple...

He has chemistry with JT, and that line is our only consistent scoring line — garbage goals or not. Risking messing that up when you are struggling is dangerous. There is no guarantee that what comes back in a deal, or what moves into that position will be able to click with Tavares.

He has a cap friendly deal. And that is reason enough for this owner, at this time. Wang is all about bang for buck, especially until we get to Brooklyn.

Lastly, I think that keeping JT happy is a good thing. He is out one true star right now and he is allowing the team to stay afloat — even if barely. A pissed off JT is not something I would want. If he requested a trade, the franchise would be dead for the next 25 years.

Id add — that perhaps next season is the time to deal Moulson at the deadline.

And I would also suggest that no player should be off limits with the possible exception of Tavares. But a return for Moulson would need to be pretty amazing for me to consider dealing him*— and we know Snow has a set idea of an asking price, and it is pretty high for his players. Something along the lines of a Corry Perry at minimum. Most will see that as overpayment. Perhaps the Isles would need to attach a pick along with Moulson —*OK. But a high caliber top line wing better be coming back in a deal for Moulson — and one who is in his prime, not some has-been.

TY and good points. The fact that he is a good teammate and the chemistry with JT is a plus (i.e. let's keep JT happy) but I think it also masks the inherent flaws. I am in no rush to deal him this year since those who would take his place are not here yet, so I agree that next year could be better if we were to move him. Maybe where we disagree is that, as much as I like the guy personally, overall I think JT will never reach his full potential(even with another good wing) and our first line will never help us get to the next level due to Moulson's liabilities (I have seen enough of him float and disappear watching him live at every home game). I know it may seem counterintuitive to trade a goal scorer but I think JT and the first line would be even better in the long run with a true power forward and a playmaker both with some all around skills. I would hope that JT can become a solid double digit plus player with the right line, rather than hover around even to minus...

.. As far as moves, I also think he is one of our assets that could be worth something in a trade that brings back quality. I agree that it would have to be something of true value coming back in return in order to do it and would not due it if it pissed off JT. So maybe next year is the time to deal him but i would love to see Tavares between Nino and Strome/Bailey (depending if Strome stays at center) or some high end acquisition within the next year or two. I may be in the minority but I feel he is actually a handcuff to JTs ascendance rather than be a facilitator and no matter how many goals he scores, the negatives nearly outweigh the positives.


Last edited by 19 in a row: 02-11-2013 at 11:22 AM.
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02-11-2013, 11:19 AM
  #96
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Just to clarify, I am not screaming that Moulson sucks and we should get rid of him. Why I suggest him is that I want to sell high rather than low. I don't think we will get back good value for Reasoner and would have to sell Okposo and Bailey low. Streit and Vis may be good chips but they will be UFAs and are past their primes, so how much will they bring back unless they are packaged with other assets? Moulson has performed with respect to his goal scoring stats and I think may be the one chip that is overvalued. We need him now, but I don't see him being a huge factor if we are to become a perennial playoff team within the next few years. Just one man's humble opinion. As Don Corleone would say "It's not personal, Sonny, it's strictly business".


Last edited by 19 in a row: 02-11-2013 at 11:26 AM.
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02-11-2013, 11:39 AM
  #97
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Streit and Vis may be good chips but they will be UFAs
This may actually be a positive with the cap going down next year. A good team can grab one of these guys for the playoff and not worry about their salaries next season.

If I were Snow, I'd move anything not nailed down. Streit, Nabokov and Vis could fetch good returns. I'd also try to move Nielsen and see if you could get something decent in return.

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02-11-2013, 11:58 AM
  #98
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At this juncture, and in light of not only all the Dmen in the club, but also the way Hickey and Strait have played, I'd have absolutely no problem with a move like Okposo and de Haan to Chicago for Hjalmarsson and Shaw.

In the short run, it makes us better now while still holding potential for the future. Should de Haan overcome injuries and Okposo finally wakes up, it could end up being a great move for Chicago in the long run. Chicago would be saving roughly a million on the deal. Hjalmarsson has two years left on his.

This move would then open the door to perhaps a bigger deal involving Streit, who I'm somehow not viewing as a career Islander.

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02-11-2013, 12:46 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by HyeDray View Post
Lastly, I think that keeping JT happy is a good thing. He is out one true star right now and he is allowing the team to stay afloat — even if barely. A pissed off JT is not something I would want. If he requested a trade, the franchise would be dead for the next 25 years.

Id add — that perhaps next season is the time to deal Moulson at the deadline.
Completely agree. There will come a time where Moulson will hold back the team, but it's not now. I think Strome is eventually the best fit to play with JT, but you can't do that with Moulson on the same line as they'd get pushed around.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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02-11-2013, 12:53 PM
  #100
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Completely agree. There will come a time where Moulson will hold back the team, but it's not now. I think Strome is eventually the best fit to play with JT, but you can't do that with Moulson on the same line as they'd get pushed around.

Cheers,

Dan-o
Not to argue, but until the two play together, we're speculating on two individuals much like any arranged marriage.

I prefer to KNOW the person, first....so why not decide after seeing them play together, or at least when his new winger has been seen in the pro's?

And I'd argue after some watching of MM the past debacle/game that he can play physical and battle....he just doesn't. Watch him in the D zone fighting a check behind the net.

I say it's coaching. The whole team plays with mittens, pretty much. The guy does have size. And, remember.....Vinny Lecavalier was once a glamour model until the year they wiped us out of the postseason.

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