Hitting to produce/nullify offense is a different animal, yet neither were real examples despite you providing the videos for evidence.
Did the game change because Giroux hit Crosby, or Giroux scored after Steve Sullivan couldn't clear the zone (after the Penguins had attack time in our end)? And then the Flyers scored again after getting a power play? And then when Fleury gave up a meatball to Gustafsson? If Giroux doesn't SCORE (miss the net, have the shot saved or blocked), then it doesn't really matter. And if the Flyers lost the game then it really didn't matter.
Schenn's hits changed Game 1 so much, that the Penguins scored again. So, he did the conventional thing instead, which was produce offense.
When hitting and energy are the two first things that come to your mind when describing a player, it's because you're describing a bad player.
Hitting to produce/nullify offense is a different animal, yet neither were real examples despite you providing the videos for evidence.
Did the game change because Giroux hit Crosby, or Giroux scored after Steve Sullivan couldn't clear the zone (after the Penguins had attack time in our end)? And then the Flyers scored again after getting a power play? And then when Fleury gave up a meatball to Gustafsson? If Giroux doesn't SCORE (miss the net, have the shot saved or blocked), then it doesn't really matter. And if the Flyers lost the game then it really didn't matter.
Schenn's hits changed Game 1 so much, that the Penguins scored again. So, he did the conventional thing instead, which was produce offense.
When hitting and energy are the two first things that come to your mind when describing a player, it's because you're describing a bad player.
Big hits in hockey and football can let the opponent know that they are still going to have to pay a price no matter what the score is. In game one against PITT, the Pens came out flying and took a big lead but the Flyers, especially Schenn, kept pounding and PITT's forecheck became less and less effective. I thought the hit Schenn had on Adams before the end of the period was a bigger turning point.
Adams tried to run Schenn and Schenn decked him.
It all depends on the will of the opponent but to say it has no effect is naive.
I can't be arsed to argue with you. You have a clear bias, and well, your opinion is just flat out wrong.
That's fine. I do have a clear bias. I have a bias against completely worthless players whose roles are justified by lazy narratives.
Sometimes in a debate on an internet message board, when the evidence provided is turned in the complete other direction against the person providing it, the only thing left to do is take your ball and go home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancer247
Big hits in hockey and football can let the opponent know that they are still going to have to pay a price no matter what the score is. In game one against PITT, the Pens came out flying and took a big lead but the Flyers, especially Schenn, kept pounding and PITT's forecheck became less and less effective. I thought the hit Schenn had on Adams before the end of the period was a bigger turning point.
Adams tried to run Schenn and Schenn decked him.
It all depends on the will of the opponent but to say it has no effect is naive.
Both teams always try to make the other team pay the price, especially in a playoff game. What you're describing about Schenn is not one hit (or two) hits that change a game, it's a conscious strategy to be continually physical to wear down an opponent. He didn't hit once to send a message and leave, he kept hitting. That's not the same as a 'momentum changing hit.'
Zac Rinaldo’s fight against Lightning winger B.J. Crombeen sent the game’s sellout crowd to its feet. The fans only got louder once they realized a perfectly landed punch had knocked Crombeen out cold.
Crombeen was kept out of the rest of the game as a precaution, but afterward hinted that maybe Rinaldo had continued to hit him well after he should have stopped, after he’d gone down to the ice.
According to Rinaldo, however, that’s not the case.
“I hit him 'til he was down,” Rinaldo said. “I’m not going to hit nobody, no matter who they are, or what they’ve done, I’ll never hit someone when they’re down. I’ll hit him 'til he’s down, I made sure he was down, and that was it.”
Wearing a hoodie pulled close over his eyes -- almost like a boxer might -- Rinaldo added he even checked in with referee Kelly Sutherland to make sure he stopped himself from needlessly pounding his opponent.
Sutherland said he had, according to Rinaldo. That’s a good thing, considering his mind was blank at the time.
“So many things are going through your mind when you’re fighting,” Rinaldo said. “It’s a fight! You ever been to a fight? It’s crazy. You don’t know what you’re thinking.”
Somebody should make a gif of Rinaldo turning into Wolverine with his claws popping out. And when he finishes off Crombeen it should go "Berserker Barage."
Tampa fans be mad right now though. Expected payback from the Lightning. Please, Tampa is one of the softest teams in the league in the softest division in the east. Nobody is scared of any of those dudes.
Somebody should make a gif of Rinaldo turning into Wolverine with his claws popping out. And when he finishes off Crombeen it should go "Berserker Barage."
Idk, I was thinking more of a Mortal Kombat theme.
Show the punch that knocks Crombeen out and then, as he starts to fall (with Zac still flailing at him) go to a cut screen that says "FINISH HIM" before going back for a slow-mo of the final blow.
Somebody should make a gif of Rinaldo turning into Wolverine with his claws popping out. And when he finishes off Crombeen it should go "Berserker Barage."
Tampa fans be mad right now though. Expected payback from the Lightning. Please, Tampa is one of the softest teams in the league in the softest division in the east. Nobody is scared of any of those dudes.
Yeah I'm sure that the flyers are ShAkInG in their boots by the softies on that team. I would love for Tampa to try and goon it up next game...half their team would end up like crombeen.
Hitting to produce/nullify offense is a different animal, yet neither were real examples despite you providing the videos for evidence.
Did the game change because Giroux hit Crosby, or Giroux scored after Steve Sullivan couldn't clear the zone (after the Penguins had attack time in our end)? And then the Flyers scored again after getting a power play? And then when Fleury gave up a meatball to Gustafsson? If Giroux doesn't SCORE (miss the net, have the shot saved or blocked), then it doesn't really matter. And if the Flyers lost the game then it really didn't matter.
Schenn's hits changed Game 1 so much, that the Penguins scored again. So, he did the conventional thing instead, which was produce offense.
When hitting and energy are the two first things that come to your mind when describing a player, it's because you're describing a bad player.
Scott Stevens and Eric lindros beg to differ.
Edit: Wrong quote, this is directed to the no such thing as a game changing hit comment.
Somebody should make a gif of Rinaldo turning into Wolverine with his claws popping out. And when he finishes off Crombeen it should go "Berserker Barage."
Tampa fans be mad right now though. Expected payback from the Lightning. Please, Tampa is one of the softest teams in the league in the softest division in the east. Nobody is scared of any of those dudes.
These were the same "fans" that whined and demanded that Boston take down an add in their arena questioning Tampa "fans" fanhood. The butthurt between them and all the Flyers haters is what's making this situation very enjoyable IMO.
That's fine. I do have a clear bias. I have a bias against completely worthless players whose roles are justified by lazy narratives.
Just stopped in to see if you were regurgitating your usual anti-tough hockey song-and-dance after last night's victory . . . . the one where Tom Sestito scored two goals. You keeping tabs on the speedy Eric Wellwood down in the A? Keep us updated.
Just stopped in to see if you were regurgitating your usual anti-tough hockey song-and-dance after last night's victory . . . . the one where Tom Sestito scored two goals. You keeping tabs on the speedy Eric Wellwood down in the A? Keep us updated.
Here's the update, this is the hard truth that you're unlikely to accept.
Sestito scores two goals because he was finally able to get on the ice with the better teammates Rinaldo keeps saying he should be getting. It is unlikely to continue, on top of being a small sample size, but the advanced numbers say Sestito has been far and away the better player of the two. Of course, a lot of that time was with Wellwood being on his line.
Rinaldo did the right thing beating the crap out of a guy running around like an idiot. He is also still firmly in the mix in terms of whether or not he is the worst player in the league. One or two fights didn't not change this.
Here's the update, this is the hard truth that you're unlikely to accept.
Sestito scores two goals because he was finally able to get on the ice with the better teammates Rinaldo keeps saying he should be getting. It is unlikely to continue, on top of being a small sample size, but the advanced numbers say Sestito has been far and away the better player of the two. Of course, a lot of that time was with Wellwood being on his line.
Rinaldo did the right thing beating the crap out of a guy running around like an idiot. He is also still firmly in the mix in terms of whether or not he is the worst player in the league. One or two fights didn't not change this.
Does considering Rinaldo a liability constitute "hating" him? Or being certain that the roster spot could be filled by a more well-rounded player who doesn't have a chip on his shoulder and ref target on his back? Because then apparently I hate him, too.
Does considering Rinaldo a liability constitute "hating" him? Or being certain that the roster spot could be filled by a more well-rounded player who doesn't have a chip on his shoulder and ref target on his back? Because then apparently I hate him, too.
Not his fault the refs are aholes most of the time with him.....
You can hate him when he does something stupid and he's actually at fault but my contention is that it's not as common as people exaggerate it to be. He's come a long way and the coach does like him...
Anyway..you are entitled to your opinion ..don't necessarily agree with it.
Not his fault the refs are aholes most of the time with him.....
You can hate him when he does something stupid and he's actually at fault but my contention is that it's not as common as people exaggerate it to be. He's come a long way and the coach does like him...
Anyway..you are entitled to your opinion ..don't necessarily agree with it.
What?? You don't agree with my OPINION?!?!! How dare you! ;-)
I don't hate anyone, much less a professional athlete whom I will almost certainly never meet or interact with.
No, it's not entirely Rinaldo's fault that he's an easy target for "2 minutes for checking hard". Rinaldo did arrive at the pro level with no small bit of baggage. But from an objective POV, do you want your team putting a guy out on the ice whom the refs seem to want to put in the box every time? It's like the pitcher who keeps making great pitches, but umps just seem to squeeze his zone or batters fight them off and pick up broken-bat hits. When do you say that it's better for the team to move forward without him?
What?? You don't agree with my OPINION?!?!! How dare you! ;-)
I don't hate anyone, much less a professional athlete whom I will almost certainly never meet or interact with.
No, it's not entirely Rinaldo's fault that he's an easy target for "2 minutes for checking hard". Rinaldo did arrive at the pro level with no small bit of baggage. But from an objective POV, do you want your team putting a guy out on the ice whom the refs seem to want to put in the box every time? It's like the pitcher who keeps making great pitches, but umps just seem to squeeze his zone or batters fight them off and pick up broken-bat hits. When do you say that it's better for the team to move forward without him?
From an objective POV I think the marked man thing is greatly exaggerated and a bit of a red herring. Yeah his reputation precedes him and the refs seem to single him out more than normal but I don't see how you can justify getting rid of him solely on that...what kind of message does that send? The refs are a joke and Rinaldo shouldn't be scapegoated for their BS.....if anything they just keep adding to their lack of integrity like Shanahan and his inconsistency as discipline dictator. They need to be called out otherwise they will continue to ruin the integrity of the game..
What?? You don't agree with my OPINION?!?!! How dare you! ;-)
I don't hate anyone, much less a professional athlete whom I will almost certainly never meet or interact with.
No, it's not entirely Rinaldo's fault that he's an easy target for "2 minutes for checking hard". Rinaldo did arrive at the pro level with no small bit of baggage. But from an objective POV, do you want your team putting a guy out on the ice whom the refs seem to want to put in the box every time? It's like the pitcher who keeps making great pitches, but umps just seem to squeeze his zone or batters fight them off and pick up broken-bat hits. When do you say that it's better for the team to move forward without him?
They should keep Rinaldo, because he's gradually earning the respect of the officials by not yapping as much.
He will always get penalties for hitting too hard, he's just too good at it. And I don't mind those at all, I like it that other D have to keep their heads up or lose them. Believe me, every Dman knows when Rinaldo is on the ice, which is a good thing. He's fast, has decent hands for a fighter, and stirs it up. Love to see Cousins between Zac and Sestito next year....
Sestito's playing well, and so is McGinn. We have a lot of top level young forwards so we need guys like that to go with them, and we've got a decent supporting cast of vets too.
Now, the way the Raptors get screwed by the officials every game, and again tonight, I've just given up on that.
