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Leafs' Nonis: I operate differently than Burke

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Old
02-05-2013, 01:13 PM
  #51
bansheebeat
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Phanny for OEL, please.

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02-05-2013, 02:14 PM
  #52
bluebarry
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Originally Posted by Morguee View Post
That is a real hard swallow he does after talking about Phil and Dion and saying no one is untouchable. The other thing I take from this is they are going to play the kids and see what they can do don't have to make the playoffs in the next couple of years just need to show improvement.
was interesting that when answering that question he focused more on what makes them valuable in a trade rather than what makes them valuable to the team.

then gulps

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02-05-2013, 05:05 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
Pretty sure just about any team, who isn't in the early starges of rebuilding, will give up two undetermined first rounders for a 24 year old who finished 6th in scoring on a **** team last season.
Well obviously, it would not be even close to a similar package, now would it?.

Seeing how those picks would have to come from a rebuilding team to even have a chance to fall into the range of the ones Boston got.

Or are you completely oblivious to the fact we made the trade coming hot off the heals of back to back 7th last place finishes and a chunk of the team shipped out. AKA a Re=tooling team

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02-05-2013, 06:53 PM
  #54
mikelb7
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
Cant say Carlyle's system doesn't work. Some players are thriving and others are faltering. Kadri, Frattin, Kulemin, JVR all seem to be reviving themselves in his style of hockey, while Kessel, Grabovski, Macarthur, Bozak seem to be floundering. IMO if Kessel, Grabovski, Macarthur, Bozak can somehow be turned into a legitimate 1 center, this team will be much better off to play top 6 bottom 6. Most people dont believe Grabovski is a top 6 center on a contender, well i believe Kadri is and will be. I was watching some footage of Pete Deboer on Kadri. to summarize "kid is hungry, will go to the dirty areas, will be a game changer in the NHL. and last but not least, is an absolute beast in the playoffs."

JVR Weiss/Getzlaf/O'rielly/Stasny Lupul
Kulemin Kadri Frattin
Komarov McClement Ashton
Orr Steckel Mcclaren
I'm normally not a big fan of these "fantasyland" rosters but I actually agree with almost all of this post. I don't think it's too far fetched to suggest that some kind of deal can be worked out for a #1C with Kessel and Grabovski being the main pieces (Leafs would still have to add assets most likely). This is coming from a Grabovski fan as well. Obviously Kadri isn't quite ready yet for bigger minutes but watching the team, he's clearly going to deserve more time in the near future. I'm not sure if Frattin can keep pace with what he's done so far but he definitely looks like a top 6 player in the making.

I might prefer Bozak as the 3rd line centre as he brings slightly more of an offensive game but McClement has looked really good in all roles he's played here. I'd also have Brown on the 4th instead of Mcclaren but these are all small details. We need our best players playing more minutes and it doesn't seem like that's going to happen with a system that rolls 3 scoring lines.

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02-05-2013, 07:20 PM
  #55
eyeball11
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I saw the interview on Sportsnet yesterday by Chris Simpson on Nonis and he does come across far more patient and willing to let the youth play and develop.

No quick fix attempts in the future and not willing to sacrifice youth to move the team ahead quickly as in the past.

His early moves of parachuting out Lombardi and Connolly to make room for Kadri and Frattin has paid big dividends early on in his new philosophy of building from within.
So the same as Burke then? It's funny that everything mentioned in the article matches what Burke said and did.

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02-05-2013, 08:05 PM
  #56
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So the same as Burke then? It's funny that everything mentioned in the article matches what Burke said and did.
If that makes you feel better about it. Nonis says he's different than Burke but I guess we should take your word over his?

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02-05-2013, 08:29 PM
  #57
eyeball11
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Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
If that makes you feel better about it. Nonis says he's different than Burke but I guess we should take your word over his?
All I can do is read the actual quotes of what he said. He said "he's different" yet all the examples match (repeated statements of not trading long term pieces for short term ones). I could give a rat's posterior whose word you take.

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02-06-2013, 10:12 AM
  #58
Faltorvo
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
I find it funny now that Kadri is leading the team in scoring and seems to be the most dangerous Leaf along with Frattin on most nights. Take away his faceoffs and really he has played virtually no centre for the Leafs since being drafted and the guy is doing everything that can be asked.

I found it funny on TV last night Nonis made no promises to keeping Phaneuf and Kessel and said there are no untouchables on this team. Burkes method of building the team was from the net out and once can argue goaltending is an issue. Reimer seems to be coming around but more of a longer term approach. We have Gardiner and Reilly but really slim pickings for finishing near the bottom for the last five years.

I bet Nonis goes through the year and lets the team decide where they should be headed. Come trade deadline he will decide if he is a buyer or seller and guys like Phaneuf, Kessel, Grabovski and others will come up.

I believe we are sellers. There are some decent young players here but not top end talent. If I had to spend 7mil a year I would on Corey Perry-not Phil Kessel.

Slim pickens? ehh not sure it's that bad. JVR,Kadri,PK (or trade value),Riel

Frankly, i think the 2 worst parts about this past roster reset was the returns we got from the old core and our failures in the UFA market.

JVR is giving me great hope that the Schenn draft is going to work out well. Not a blow pick.

Kadri, same thing. Not a blow pick.

Riel, way to early to tell, but all looks good on that front. Not a blown pick.

PK , well ya we took a loss in total asset value there. Losing out on the 2nd and 9th draft slots comparative to how those drafts played out, was a honest step back .

IF PK gets moved for a package or we can get another top notch RW(Perry) and bump PK where he belongs and thats 2nd line rw on a cup contender, it could work out.


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Old
02-06-2013, 10:17 AM
  #59
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So the same as Burke then? It's funny that everything mentioned in the article matches what Burke said and did.
Somehow i don't see Conn in the AHL making room for Kadri this year if BBs in charge.

Somehow i feel it would already be Lou between the pipes and not Reims if BBs here.

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02-06-2013, 10:21 AM
  #60
ACC1224
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
So the same as Burke then? It's funny that everything mentioned in the article matches what Burke said and did.
Pretty much. Everything done up until this point would have been done if Burke were still around.

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02-06-2013, 11:19 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Pretty much. Everything done up until this point would have been done if Burke were still around.
Burke would never have admitted he failed by sending TC to the minors and to be honest who the **** cares what that loud mouthed arrogant fool would have done anyway . Had he not been fired he would have been in his 5th year with the club and the team still isn't anywhere near being a contender for anything other than a bottom seed playoff berth .

Burke was a failure and all your spinning and crying won't get the loser his job back so it's time to get over it and move on to discussing the players and the GM who are actually employed by the Leafs .

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02-06-2013, 05:25 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Burke would never have admitted he failed by sending TC to the minors and to be honest who the **** cares what that loud mouthed arrogant fool would have done anyway . Had he not been fired he would have been in his 5th year with the club and the team still isn't anywhere near being a contender for anything other than a bottom seed playoff berth .

Burke was a failure and all your spinning and crying won't get the loser his job back so it's time to get over it and move on to discussing the players and the GM who are actually employed by the Leafs .
The hate is strong with this one. Not suprsing your posts have been minimized by Burke's dismisal, yet here you pop up when in a Burke thread. Milk has dried up a long time ago; time to let it go.

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02-06-2013, 06:02 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
The hate is strong with this one. Not suprsing your posts have been minimized by Burke's dismisal, yet here you pop up when in a Burke thread. Milk has dried up a long time ago; time to let it go.
He's not hating at all, its just that anyone who analyzes and judges performance based on facts is glad Brian is not in charge anymore. That post just stated it emphatically.

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02-06-2013, 06:18 PM
  #64
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He's not hating at all, its just that anyone who analyzes and judges performance based on facts is glad Brian is not in charge anymore. That post just stated it emphatically.
Which part were facts? Sounded like the same nonsense we've always heard.

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02-06-2013, 06:36 PM
  #65
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What is this thread?

The "I supported Burke and looked really foolish when I tried to vilify other posters that didn't share my blind faith in the man's non-existant plan" Now I'm going to hate on everything the New GM does in a desperate attempt to not look so foolish after all.

80% of the posters on this Board have zero credibility as far as I am concerned.


Last edited by DaveT83*: 02-06-2013 at 07:09 PM.
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Old
02-06-2013, 07:14 PM
  #66
ITM
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Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
From everything i knew about Burke before he came here, he assembled a damn soft team. He talked about truculence and testosterone yet his first major move was acquiring Kessel, probably one of the softest forwards in the game.

Liles, Bozak, Connolly. Are you freakin kidding me
Burke's most glaring deficiency -- for a time -- was forecasting moves and intentions with unapologetic bravado. And I say this without a sense of giving one inch to his ravenous naysayers.

Acquiring players like Liles, Bozak and Connolly doesn't remove the efforts Burke made in acaquiring harder players. What Burke did was acquire the players he could. It doesn't mean he wasn't trying to acquire other players.

Is it completely unknown that Kesler and the Sedins were targets? There's only so much any GM can do to entice, convince, encourage a player to sign, and then the lack of acquisition has to be equally attributed to the player's decision, or the GM possessing his rights, doesn't it?

If Kessel's available is the option to hold off until Clarkson was available? A leap, but my sense is, like flipping Schenn for JVR, the attitude of a front office -- despite declared mandate -- is always to acquire the best asset available .

I don't begrudge Burke acquiring Kessel for two firsts. Nope. I lament the unknown outcome after the fact that another avenue wasn't taken to arrive at the ideal...Which was to acquire Kessel, and hope that picks like Seguin and Hamilton would have been available had things been different. But to constantly point to these uncontrollable circumstances and blame one man with 29 other GMs imposing any number of variables in a market of like complexity is an exercise in delusion.

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Old
02-06-2013, 07:16 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
What is this thread?

The "I supported Burke and looked really foolish when I tried to vilify other posters that didn't share my blind faith in the man's non-existant plan" Now I'm going to hate on everything the New GM does in a desperate attempt to not look so foolish after all.

80% of the posters on this Board have zero credibility as far as I am concerned.
It's called 'spin'. A tactic used to avoid recognizing your own errors. Many people use it quite frequently on here.

Here's a perfect article on the failure of Brian Burke: http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...to-maple-leafs

Very well worth a read.

I love the truth of this:

Quote:
And let’s be clear: It didn’t have to be that way. Brian Burke could have stood up on his first day on the job and said, “Look, things here are a mess, and I’m going to roll a grenade into the whole operation. It’s going to be ugly and it’s going be painful, and it will stay that way for at least a few years and maybe more. But stick with me and I’ll lead you through to the other side.” Maple Leafs fans would have followed him into that battle with smiles on their faces. He had that opportunity. He declined it.

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02-06-2013, 07:18 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
What is this thread?

The "I supported Burke and looked really foolish when I tried to vilify other posters that didn't share my blind faith in the man's non-existant plan" Now I'm going to hate on everything the New GM does in a desperate attempt to not look so foolish after all.

80% of the posters on this Board have zero credibility as far as I am concerned.
Question: Would the 80% be pleased given the frivolous and opportunistic nature of your characterization?

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02-06-2013, 07:36 PM
  #69
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It is time to move on Burke did not do as promised and the results bear that out.....Burke see you later and do not let the door hit you where the god lord split you!

Nonis has made room for younger player by sending away non performing players who added nothing to the team other then preventing players an opportunity to develop. His next few moves will give us a better idea of his plan. Thus far I'm impressed.

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02-06-2013, 09:01 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Epictetus View Post
It's called 'spin'. A tactic used to avoid recognizing your own errors. Many people use it quite frequently on here.

Here's a perfect article on the failure of Brian Burke: http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...to-maple-leafs

Very well worth a read.

I love the truth of this:
Leafs fans would've followed Burke into that battle with smiles on their faces and started whining and calling for his head after the first loss.

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02-06-2013, 09:22 PM
  #71
achtungbaby
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Leafs fans would've followed Burke into that battle with smiles on their faces and started whining and calling for his head after the first loss.
I guess we'll never know, but who cares? Burke wasn't the type of guy who seemed to give a damn what people thought, why do you care what a random fan might think? The only thing we do know is that Burke didn't try this approach and he now no longer works for MLSE.

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02-06-2013, 09:35 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
What is this thread?

The "I supported Burke and looked really foolish when I tried to vilify other posters that didn't share my blind faith in the man's non-existant plan" Now I'm going to hate on everything the New GM does in a desperate attempt to not look so foolish after all.

80% of the posters on this Board have zero credibility as far as I am concerned.
No, it is the Holy ****! BUrke built a great young team and look at it tear up the ****ing league thread!

I don't want to debate BUrke and his moves with you. And use the term debate very loosely. But time to let go of the hatred.

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02-06-2013, 10:41 PM
  #73
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Doubt it..

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Originally Posted by LeafsBro View Post
Burke will be offered a job by the end of this season or the next.
Trading top picks to your buddies for no reason has backfired.Karma.He may have fooled some here but not other teams.

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Old
02-06-2013, 10:45 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
It is time to move on Burke did not do as promised and the results bear that out.....Burke see you later and do not let the door hit you where the god lord split you!

Nonis has made room for younger player by sending away non performing players who added nothing to the team other then preventing players an opportunity to develop. His next few moves will give us a better idea of his plan. Thus far I'm impressed.
And what you may be impressed with is a plan Nonis executed having planned it with Burke.

Maybe the attention Burke drew upon himself was part of the weight (somewhat) lifted, but much of what is being done is being done with Burke's fingerprints all over it, not the least of which is Dave Nonis himself.

I mean...You do have so many other options to select as your avatar other than a Burke pick, right?

This either/or mentality hasn't helped this fanbase one iota.

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02-07-2013, 12:07 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
What is this thread?

The "I supported Burke and looked really foolish when I tried to vilify other posters that didn't share my blind faith in the man's non-existant plan" Now I'm going to hate on everything the New GM does in a desperate attempt to not look so foolish after all.

80% of the posters on this Board have zero credibility as far as I am concerned.
Now the paradigm has shifted and Burke would have done the same things as Nonis.

I wonder if Nonis will makes mistakes in the future

That means we can criticize Burke from beyond the grave?

The fact remains, Burke did a terrible job and got fired for it. He admitted it himself. He should have won more.

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