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The Armchair GM Thread - Part XXXII - Kessel Run Edition

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Old
02-07-2013, 12:51 AM
  #26
Vankiller Whale
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Schneider + Gaunce as the basis for a deal makes sense for me.

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02-07-2013, 12:53 AM
  #27
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I'd much rather have Kassian's toughness than Kessel's softness, especially in the playoffs.
Kessel is a ppg in the playoffs. I'd do Schneider+ for him, although I wouldn't add Kassian.

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02-07-2013, 12:59 AM
  #28
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I would want Kessel on this team and would pay Schneider+. Just not if that + is Jensen or Kassian.

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02-07-2013, 01:01 AM
  #29
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Unfortunately (or fortunately) Schneider is not getting moved and I don't think it makes any sense for Toronto to accept Luongo as a replacement for Schneider in that move since it would symbolize more of a rebuild if they do indeed trade Kessel.

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02-07-2013, 01:02 AM
  #30
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Unfortunately (or fortunately) Schneider is not getting moved and I don't think it makes any sense for Toronto to accept Luongo as a replacement for Schneider in that move since it would symbolize more of a rebuild if they do indeed trade Kessel.
Yeah, I don't really see them moving Kessel unless they get an overpayment back. Or at least I wouldn't do it if I were in their position. (And I agree that we're not moving Schneider. But if we were, Kessel would be a guy I would move him for.)

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02-07-2013, 01:03 AM
  #31
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Any combination of a Kesler Kessel line would be terrible.

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02-07-2013, 01:04 AM
  #32
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Unfortunately (or fortunately) Schneider is not getting moved and I don't think it makes any sense for Toronto to accept Luongo as a replacement for Schneider in that move since it would symbolize more of a rebuild if they do indeed trade Kessel.
Just screwing around with Cap Geek and it would be a tough job for Gillis to ice a deep team with Kessel for something like Schneider, Gaunce and a pick. You'd have to pray Jensen is good enough to learn as he goes, move Booth and Ballard for picks/prospects, and cheap out on your 4th line and depth D. The latter wouldn't be so hard because teams are going to struggle with the lower cap, so quality depth players will likely have a hard time getting paid well.

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02-07-2013, 01:04 AM
  #33
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Would you make this deal?

Suppose we have every forward back healthy by the deadline so our depth looks like this

LW: D. Sedin - Booth - Raymond - Higgins - Volpatti
C: H. Sedin - Kesler - Schroeder - Malhotra - Lappy - Ebbett
RW: Kassian - Burrows - Hansen - Weise - (Jensen)

Would you be willing to trade Raymond to an eastern conference contender (while retaining half salary) for a pick in next years draft?

Clearly it's good to have a lot of skilled players like this but considering Raymond doesn't fit into our future plans would you be willing to ship him out to get a return? Would we also have to be bringing in a player (perhaps on better suited for a 3rd line role)?

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02-07-2013, 01:05 AM
  #34
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edit: nevermind

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02-07-2013, 01:06 AM
  #35
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Any combination of a Kesler Kessel line would be terrible.
This.

There just aren't enough pucks on the ice for them to both shoot as much as they want.

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02-07-2013, 01:08 AM
  #36
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This.

There just aren't enough pucks on the ice for them to both shoot as much as they want.
It's a wonder Malkin and Neal play so well together then since they were #1 and #2 in shots last season.

Kessel is an excellent playmaker and would have no trouble playing with Kesler. Both guys can pass when they want and have somebody to pass to.

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02-07-2013, 01:09 AM
  #37
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Any combination of a Kesler Kessel line would be terrible.
Would be interesting, but I'm not really interested in Kessel at all to begin with. Would depend what we give, mostly.

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02-07-2013, 01:10 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
It's a wonder Malkin and Neal play so well together then since they were #1 and #2 in shots last season.

Kessel is an excellent playmaker and would have no trouble playing with Kesler. Both guys can pass when they want and have somebody to pass to.
Kessel is NOT an excellent playmaker. I know what you're saying but I have to keep you honest. Kessel is a decent playmaker. Not great but not terrible either.

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02-07-2013, 01:11 AM
  #39
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This whole notion that shoot first players can't play on the same line is completely and utterly preposterous. Staal and Semin have been an excellent line. Semin and Ovechkin always had chemistry back in the day. Nash and Gaborik have been great together. The more you shoot, the more you score.

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02-07-2013, 01:11 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by shortshorts View Post
Any combination of a Kesler Kessel line would be terrible.
Oh please. Kessel had 45 assists last year centred by Tyler Bozak.

You don't pass down young talent like Kessel because he's shoot-first. He still has far more playmaking ability than anyone Kesler's ever played with not named Sedin.

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02-07-2013, 01:12 AM
  #41
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Where's that cartoon gif of the head smashing into keyboard?

Guys, Phil Kessel is a good playmaker AS WELL as a premiere sniper. We know Kesler, when surrounded with good talent, is a good playmaker as well as a great shooter. They would both play off the rush and offer something completely different for teams to worry about than the Sedins. It would give us a dynamic 1-2 punch that couldn't be touched around the league and with our defense and goaltending, we'd be firm favourites for the cup.

I don't think Gillis does it for many reasons but most of all the headache of fitting the team under a $64.5 million cap.

Edit: Vankiller Whale, Kesler also was on fire with Sundin and Demo. He was such a complete offensive player with those guys, and just so much fun to watch.

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02-07-2013, 01:13 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
It's a wonder Malkin and Neal play so well together then since they were #1 and #2 in shots last season.

Kessel is an excellent playmaker and would have no trouble playing with Kesler. Both guys can pass when they want and have somebody to pass to.
Malkin is world class. Kesler is not. Neal is a shooter, while Malkin is just about anything he wants to be.

Kesler and Kessel are both shooters too. I'm not denying that they can't pass. Both players are just much more inclined/comfortable to shoot than do so.

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02-07-2013, 01:14 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by shortshorts View Post
Malkin is world class. Kesler is not. Neal is a shooter, while Malkin is just about anything he wants to be.

Kesler and Kessel are both shooters too. I'm not denying that they can't pass. Both players are just much more inclined/comfortable to shoot than do so.
Malkin is score.

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02-07-2013, 01:15 AM
  #44
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Kesler has a 50 assist season and Kessel has a 45 assist season...why can't these guys play together? Booth has never had more assists than goals in his NHL career so I can see the issue there, but if you add Kulemin (who managed to get Malkin the puck in the KHL) on the line, I fail to see why it wouldn't work.

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02-07-2013, 01:16 AM
  #45
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This whole notion that shoot first players can't play on the same line is completely and utterly preposterous. Staal and Semin have been an excellent line. Semin and Ovechkin always had chemistry back in the day. Nash and Gaborik have been great together. The more you shoot, the more you score.
There are examples of places where it's worked, but there are plenty of examples where it hasn't worked too.

It's not necessarily a general comment about all 'shoot first' players playing together...It's a comment about the potential of Kesler and Kessel playing together. There's nothing about their games that screams 'these guys will mesh brilliantly!!!'

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02-07-2013, 01:17 AM
  #46
shortshorts
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
This whole notion that shoot first players can't play on the same line is completely and utterly preposterous. Staal and Semin have been an excellent line. Semin and Ovechkin always had chemistry back in the day. Nash and Gaborik have been great together. The more you shoot, the more you score.
For every successful combination of Staal Semin, Semin Ovechkin, Nash Gaborik, there are twice as many failed combinations. Camallari Iginla, Jokinen Kane, Kesler(every year but 10') Raymond, Grabovski Kessel. The list goes on.


Edit: In every pairing you just gave me, they are centered by a center that plays a team-oriented game. Backstrom, Richards, Staal.

Kesler is a player that rushes down the wing and takes a shot. None of the players you listed, except for Staal (although he is a much better player than Kesler) does that.

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02-07-2013, 01:18 AM
  #47
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I don't understand the infatuation with bringing Kessel in. We can't afford a contract like that without completely gutting our depth, especially if it means keeping Luongo over Schneider (that $1.3 million adds up). Say we trade Booth + Schneider for Kessel, that leaves us with less than 11 million in cap space to fill out this roster with 11 more players.

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian
Burrows-Kesler-Kessel
xxxxxxx-xxxxxx-Hansen
xxxxxxx-xxxxxx-xxxxxx
xxxxxx

Hamhuis-Edler
Garrison-Bieksa
xxxxxxx-xxxxx
xxxxxxx-xxxxx

Luongo
xxxxxx

I'd much rather go with the depth, and any picks/prospects we can get in a goalie trade than deal Schneider for 1.5 years of Kessel over Booth.

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Old
02-07-2013, 01:19 AM
  #48
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Malkin is world class. Kesler is not. Neal is a shooter, while Malkin is just about anything he wants to be.

Kesler and Kessel are both shooters too. I'm not denying that they can't pass. Both players are just much more inclined/comfortable to shoot than do so.
Semin and Ovechkin. Staal and Semin. Nash and Gaborik. Marleau and Healty in 09-10. Lemieux and Jagr. Kovalev and Jagr. Yashin and Hossa. I can keep going, these are just off the top of my head...

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortshorts View Post
For every successful combination of Staal Semin, Semin Ovechkin, Nash Gaborik, there are twice as many failed combinations. Camallari Iginla, Jokinen Kane, Kesler(every year but 10') Raymond, Grabovski Kessel. The list goes on.


Edit: In every pairing you just gave me, they are either centered by a center that plays a team-oriented game. Backstrom, Richards, Staal.

Kesler is a player that rushes down the wing and takes a shot. None of the players you listed, except for Staal (although he is a much better player than Kesler) does that.
I think you're seeing what you want to see.

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Old
02-07-2013, 01:19 AM
  #49
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Semin and Ovechkin. Staal and Semin. Nash and Gaborik. Marleau and Healty in 09-10. Lemieux and Jagr. Kovalev and Jagr. Yashin and Hossa.
Kesler and Kessel are no where near the level those players are.

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Old
02-07-2013, 01:24 AM
  #50
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Kesler and Kessel are no where near the level those players are.
Sharp and Kane. Pavelski and Marleau. You can't tell me Kessel and Kesler can't compare to those guys...

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