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Pens eyeing Kulemin

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02-07-2013, 05:37 AM
  #551
Cujomi
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I really feel like Pittsburgh's 1st for Kulemin is a good deal for both sides...and since people want Crosby's wing addressed it kind of would. It would allow for Malkin and Kulemin to play together and they could move Neal to play with Crosby. I know Neil and Malkin have good chemistry...but Crosby and Neil would be pretty awesome while Kulemin is proven with Malkin, too.

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02-07-2013, 05:40 AM
  #552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
I really feel like Pittsburgh's 1st for Kulemin is a good deal for both sides...and since people want Crosby's wing addressed it kind of would. It would allow for Malkin and Kulemin to play together and they could move Neal to play with Crosby. I know Neil and Malkin have good chemistry...but Crosby and Neil would be pretty awesome while Kulemin is proven with Malkin, too.
I don't think they have any intention of moving Neal, Kulemin or no. It'll be Kulemin - Malkin - Neal, and Crosby's line will retain DuperStar. Whether or not Shero is planning to address that line this season remains to be seen. It's the -only- line that hasn't been juggled all year.

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02-07-2013, 06:07 AM
  #553
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If Kulemin brought some sort of offensive consistency, he'd be worth top prospects and a pick. I wouldn't give up a top prospect and a 1st. Toronto could have one or the other.

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02-07-2013, 06:30 AM
  #554
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Why are people saying Toronto has lots of D prospects??? Theres never too many prospects in a position, esp D. We can always trade others ect. Id do Harrington,1st for Kuli and our second rounder.

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02-07-2013, 06:35 AM
  #555
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
I really feel like Pittsburgh's 1st for Kulemin is a good deal for both sides...and since people want Crosby's wing addressed it kind of would. It would allow for Malkin and Kulemin to play together and they could move Neal to play with Crosby. I know Neil and Malkin have good chemistry...but Crosby and Neil would be pretty awesome while Kulemin is proven with Malkin, too.
No, it's not. It's a totally one sided deal for the Pens.

Hockey trades involving players that are highly valued by their current team aren't made based on value, they're made on being in both team's best interest. So, what's more "valuable" between Kulemin & a first has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation.

To get Kulemin, you have to do what any team would do to another team to trade a player they want to keep -- make them a better team. Olli Maatta isn't going to do that. Neither is a 1st round pick. At this point in the season, you'd have to look at the Penguins roster. If you're not prepared to help another team in the immediate, all they're going to be willing to trade you are guys who they don't view as part of the plan going forward.

In terms of players that help our team more than Kulemin, the list is pretty short, because the Leafs don't have a lot of needs and do have a lot of depth. You're basically looking at Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Letang, & Fleury. You could make the case for Despres, but as I mentioned earlier, his fit with the Leafs long term is highly questionable. As for Sutter, no. It's not a reflection of value, simply that considering the roster above Kulemin/Sutter, we're substantially better off with the big winger who's shown the ability to score 30 goals than we are with a 3rd line centre.

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02-07-2013, 07:10 AM
  #556
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
If Kulemin brought some sort of offensive consistency, he'd be worth top prospects and a pick. I wouldn't give up a top prospect and a 1st. Toronto could have one or the other.
Kind of where I'm at, although I'd add a secondary piece.

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02-07-2013, 07:15 AM
  #557
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
I could see the Pens giving a 1st for Kulemin. He would resign in Pitts IMO to play with Malkin and it would make that team ridiculously stacked up front.

James Neal - Sidney Crosby - Chris Kunitz
Nikolai Kulemin - Evgeni Malkin - Pascal Dupuis

Yikes.
I am fairly certain that, if the Pens acquire Kulemin, it will be as a 'third wheel' on Malkin's line.

Then, Shero puts everything into filling out Kunitz-Crosby-XXXX, and he's got the pieces to make XXXX a pretty elite pickup.

As a Pens fan, seeing Kunitz-Crosby-Iginila and Kuli-Malkin-Neal was my playoff aspiration going into the season. Nothing has changed it.

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Originally Posted by kratzbuerste View Post
Also, if they Dreger thing is true, it may well have been all about Kessel to begin with.
Said that last night. Then again, maybe Shero is doing some one-stop shopping for both of his top six holes.

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02-07-2013, 07:22 AM
  #558
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
No, it's not. It's a totally one sided deal for the Pens.

Hockey trades involving players that are highly valued by their current team aren't made based on value, they're made on being in both team's best interest. So, what's more "valuable" between Kulemin & a first has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation.

To get Kulemin, you have to do what any team would do to another team to trade a player they want to keep -- make them a better team. Olli Maatta isn't going to do that. Neither is a 1st round pick. At this point in the season, you'd have to look at the Penguins roster. If you're not prepared to help another team in the immediate, all they're going to be willing to trade you are guys who they don't view as part of the plan going forward.

In terms of players that help our team more than Kulemin, the list is pretty short, because the Leafs don't have a lot of needs and do have a lot of depth. You're basically looking at Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Letang, & Fleury. You could make the case for Despres, but as I mentioned earlier, his fit with the Leafs long term is highly questionable. As for Sutter, no. It's not a reflection of value, simply that considering the roster above Kulemin/Sutter, we're substantially better off with the big winger who's shown the ability to score 30 goals than we are with a 3rd line centre.
add in the fact its pointless for us to deal Despres or Sutter for Kulemin, actually idiotic ... those are two more that make no sense or Pittsburgh wouldn't do.

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02-07-2013, 07:25 AM
  #559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
I really feel like Pittsburgh's 1st for Kulemin is a good deal for both sides...and since people want Crosby's wing addressed it kind of would. It would allow for Malkin and Kulemin to play together and they could move Neal to play with Crosby. I know Neil and Malkin have good chemistry...but Crosby and Neil would be pretty awesome while Kulemin is proven with Malkin, too.
The chances that a low 1st turn into anything as good as Kulemin are pretty low.

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02-07-2013, 07:25 AM
  #560
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Originally Posted by LilySmoov View Post
Conditional 1st (condition being it's in the 20+ range) + B prospect.
Or maybe just a non-conditional 1st or a B+ prospect.

I want Toronto to blow it up, so I personally would have no interest in roster players.
I thought they should have done that when Burke was hired..... TO fans would have put up with a few years of rebuilding!!!

As for the First plus a B prospect for Kulemin.... Fair deal! both sides.

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02-07-2013, 07:26 AM
  #561
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Holzer is a promising defensive D with size who play's the body. I'd absolutely love to have him on the team. If Shero can move out Despres (who I really like) and get Kulemin and a young almost ready NHL D in return (who plays a style we're lacking), why not!?

That also saves Niskanen, Maatta & the 1st, 2nd to go after Crosby's winger... it's basically a win win.
Based on your comments, you don't like Despres at all. Weren't you about to send him to the Twin Cities for that former 30-goal scoring bum that is on the fourth line and right now couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat?

So, you are all for dealing Despres and Niskanen in deals, so who exactly plays on the blueline for Pittsburgh? Please don't say Holzer.

We don't need Kulemin. We need a winger for Crosby more than Malkin. It's not hard to figure out. Bad asset management making deals like that when you truly only need one winger.

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02-07-2013, 07:26 AM
  #562
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Originally Posted by ShortSideFlick View Post
Maatta or Bennett + 1st seemed to be acceptable to many leaf fans

Maatta or Bennett + 2nd seemed to be acceptable to many pens fans

Therefore,

Maatta or Bennett + 1st (~24-30) + 2nd (~54-60)

for

Kulemin + 2nd (~30-40)

yay or nay?

Addition: I'm a leaf fan and don't want to give Kulemin up for die rolls either, but if him and malkin are BFFs like everyone says combined with Pitts being a contender he's probably going to sign with the pens in two seasons anyway. We're not contending this year or next so we might as well get some value for him and the pens get the Kuli+Malkin combo for 2 extra "win now" playoff runs so worth it to trade rather than wait for him to be ufa.

I'd much rather something around morrow though...
That's why I suggested Maatta, Blueger (last years 2nd and was excellent at WJC for **** Latvia team), and 2nd.

I seems like, IF Nonis likes a guy like Maatta as biggest piece, then it seems like you just need to find that middle ground as you suggest.

That said, I really, really could see Shero, when Niskanen returns, doing something like seanlinden's Despres + Kennedy for Kuli + Holzer.

I'm not saying that I like it. I'm saying that I could see Shero doing that.

Could you see Nonis doing something like that?

Note: Leave aside whether you like it. Just tell me if you could see Nonis doing that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
Based on your comments, you don't like Despres at all. Weren't you about to send him to the Twin Cities for that former 30-goal scoring bum that is on the fourth line and right now couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat?

So, you are all for dealing Despres and Niskanen in deals, so who exactly plays on the blueline for Pittsburgh? Please don't say Holzer.

We don't need Kulemin. We need a winger for Crosby more than Malkin. It's not hard to figure out. Bad asset management making deals like that when you truly only need one winger.
Actually, the Penguins need both. It's not hard to figure out. They have the assets to get both and still have a lot more left in the cupboard than when they went shopping in 2008. You address each need as the solution presents itself, and you don't say 'I'm not handling this need until I handle the other one first'. That's just naive.

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02-07-2013, 07:27 AM
  #563
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Give us Orpik or Kunitz
For who? Kulemin? LOL No.

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02-07-2013, 07:30 AM
  #564
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Originally Posted by Leafs03 View Post
Why are people saying Toronto has lots of D prospects??? Theres never too many prospects in a position, esp D. We can always trade others ect. Id do Harrington,1st for Kuli and our second rounder.
I said this last night. There's no trade asset out there like a young, big mobile defenseman who has demonstrated significant upside.

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02-07-2013, 07:31 AM
  #565
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
I don't think they have any intention of moving Neal, Kulemin or no. It'll be Kulemin - Malkin - Neal, and Crosby's line will retain DuperStar. Whether or not Shero is planning to address that line this season remains to be seen. It's the -only- line that hasn't been juggled all year.
We agree on so little, but I think we'd agree on this: He **** well better address that line, regardless of what he does with the L2 LW situation.

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02-07-2013, 07:31 AM
  #566
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Who says he's still not a 30 goal scorer? We may seem crazy for believing he's still capable of that but it's just as crazy to believe he's a 7 goal scorer.
Being capable and being are two totally different things. Sure, he has done it once. The next year, he only pots seven. There lies the problem. That is a significant drop off and I don't care if the rest of his linemates fell off production wise. It's not Pittsburgh's fault and thus shouldn't have to pay for it. Fact is, when you couple his start right now and I know its a shortened season, he is closer to being a 15-20 goal scorer than a 30.

There are quite a few hockey players in this league that are capable of doing it, but fall short for a major reason.

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02-07-2013, 07:43 AM
  #567
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
I really feel like Pittsburgh's 1st for Kulemin is a good deal for both sides...and since people want Crosby's wing addressed it kind of would. It would allow for Malkin and Kulemin to play together and they could move Neal to play with Crosby. I know Neil and Malkin have good chemistry...but Crosby and Neil would be pretty awesome while Kulemin is proven with Malkin, too.
You;d be wrong because the Leafs would be lucky to get a player as good as Kulemin in the late first round. It would be good for Pittsburg...for sure.

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02-07-2013, 07:46 AM
  #568
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Originally Posted by Leafs03 View Post
Why are people saying Toronto has lots of D prospects??? Theres never too many prospects in a position, esp D. We can always trade others ect. Id do Harrington,1st for Kuli and our second rounder.
because we are Loaded with D prospects?

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02-07-2013, 07:47 AM
  #569
KIRK
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
because we are Loaded with D prospects?
So you don't need anymore? The idea that you never can have enough top end defensive prospects doesn't apply to the Leafs?

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02-07-2013, 07:51 AM
  #570
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
Start with a 1st.

Kulemin-Malkin-Neal will be one of the leagues best lines, better make it worth it for the Leafs to deal him.
myself-malkin-neal is one of the best in the leauge.

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02-07-2013, 07:52 AM
  #571
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
So you don't need anymore? The idea that you never can have enough top end defensive prospects doesn't apply to the Leafs?
sure we'd just perfer other positions

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02-07-2013, 07:55 AM
  #572
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Originally Posted by Bozak View Post
We don't want Sutter, Morrow or your 1st.
haha why wouldnt you want sutter, so bozak can continue to be your first line center by default lol

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02-07-2013, 07:55 AM
  #573
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sure we'd just perfer other positions
No you would you dont know what nonis would prefer

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02-07-2013, 07:58 AM
  #574
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
If Kulemin brought some sort of offensive consistency, he'd be worth top prospects and a pick. I wouldn't give up a top prospect and a 1st. Toronto could have one or the other.
The weariness makes sense. But on our side we 'should' be hesitant trading for only a prospect or a pick. Because Kule has shown that he can play, and he has looked good beside Malkin.

There would be no gray area. Kule and Malkin will have a instant chemistry.

I'd love to see his full potential, he looks like a dynamite player in spurts. But a guy like Grabovski (who is decent in his own right) has seemed to plateau or hinder his play.

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02-07-2013, 08:01 AM
  #575
LEAFANFORLIFE23
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Originally Posted by Anderson55 View Post
No you would you dont know what nonis would prefer
when you have a lack of high end forward prospects and Gardiner, Reilly, finn, percy etc on D all of ehich are high end prospects it is pretty clear what is perfered

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