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At what point does Semin prove himself for a contract extension?

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Old
02-06-2013, 05:37 PM
  #26
Blueline Bomber
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Yeah, if we miss out on Marc Staal (assuming that's a possibility), Ruutu in particular is going to be a huge reason why.

However, since that deal is already signed and submitted, the choice would be paying Semin or (possibly) getting Marc. And while both are needed positions, you gotta go with the defenseman.

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02-06-2013, 05:45 PM
  #27
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I can't wait to see what the team plays like with Ruutu back - be the first time in forever we would have at least 5 top 6 wingers. I don't think that Jussi has a long term spot on the team anymore if we resigned Semin and wouldn't be surprised if we dump him at the deadline (if a new deal is already in place). If Jussi does stick around, would he and Ruutu be the other wingers on the Jordan/skinner and Eric/Semin lines? Third line is inconsistent (if not putrid [points wise]) to say the least this year.

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02-06-2013, 05:48 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan The Parade View Post
It's not about mediocrity, it's about opportunity cost.

If we resign Semin, and that precludes us from getting Marc Staal, is that a fair trade off? Such a think has happened, for example, with Boston. Boston let Joe Thornton go, but used his cap space to sign Zdeno Chara some time later.
Well, the Thornton trade was a result of absolutely inept management by the old Bruins regime (see the complete lack of proper youth and future assets in that trade). Chiarelli just made up for the old GM's terrible and half-baked decision-making by going after Chara that offseason. Generally speaking, it's smarter to try to retain the core you already have as long as management is stable.

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02-06-2013, 06:12 PM
  #29
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Sign Semin now.

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02-06-2013, 06:22 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan The Parade View Post
It's not about mediocrity, it's about opportunity cost.

If we resign Semin, and that precludes us from getting Marc Staal, is that a fair trade off? Such a think has happened, for example, with Boston. Boston let Joe Thornton go, but used his cap space to sign Zdeno Chara some time later.
Boston replaced Thornton with Savard at the same time they signed Chara. Who are we replacing Semin with? Ruutu? lulz

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02-06-2013, 06:25 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by SkinnerStaal View Post
I can't wait to see what the team plays like with Ruutu back - be the first time in forever we would have at least 5 top 6 wingers. I don't think that Jussi has a long term spot on the team anymore if we resigned Semin and wouldn't be surprised if we dump him at the deadline (if a new deal is already in place). If Jussi does stick around, would he and Ruutu be the other wingers on the Jordan/skinner and Eric/Semin lines? Third line is inconsistent (if not putrid [points wise]) to say the least this year.
Ruutu won't contribute anything except useless goals in games that have already been decided. He'll lose 90% of board battles and constantly turn the puck over in the offensive zone, but it will be okay because he shows "effort" and is "physical." Basically he's LaRose at triple the price.

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02-06-2013, 06:46 PM
  #32
TheBigKahuna
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Originally Posted by Summer Ruutu View Post
Ruutu won't contribute anything except useless goals in games that have already been decided. He'll lose 90% of board battles and constantly turn the puck over in the offensive zone, but it will be okay because he shows "effort" and is "physical." Basically he's LaRose at triple the price.
But....Ruutu has scored 5 more total goals than Rosie over the last 3 seasons.

Yes, go look it up for yourself.

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02-06-2013, 07:03 PM
  #33
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When it comes down to money....and if the Canes are up against the cap, etc....I'l be looking at Gleason and Ruutu, and shaking my head in disgust.
Gleason and Ruutu are on bad contracts, but I'd take both of them in a hearbeat over just about any of the ones the Flames have on their roster.

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02-06-2013, 07:17 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Jussi Trollinen View Post
Gleason and Ruutu are on bad contracts, but I'd take both of them in a hearbeat over just about any of the ones the Flames have on their roster.
But Dennis Wideman is completely worth his contract.

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02-06-2013, 07:23 PM
  #35
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But Dennis Wideman is completely worth his contract.
Jay Bouwmeester makes more money than anyone on the Canucks

/thread

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02-06-2013, 08:44 PM
  #36
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We should start negotiating and sign him immediately but no no movement clauses or any of that JR nonsense. We are so thin in talent right now that even if we wanted to tank and trade at the deadline we wouldn't get squat anyway. We need a few good off-seasons and talent retention to truly be cup competitive again.

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02-06-2013, 09:00 PM
  #37
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If he would take less for a longer contract, 5y6m per would set the top 6 for 5 years.

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02-07-2013, 07:21 AM
  #38
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I'd also dump LaRose and his salary to make room for Semin. Right about now those NTCs Rutherford gave Ruutu and Gleason and looking even dumber than I ever thought imaginable.

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02-07-2013, 07:42 AM
  #39
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ugh I hate that dumbass Ruutu contract

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02-07-2013, 08:01 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBigKahuna View Post
I'd also dump LaRose and his salary to make room for Semin. Right about now those NTCs Rutherford gave Ruutu and Gleason and looking even dumber than I ever thought imaginable.
Then I guess its good we have 1 more amnesty buyout before next season begins, so if we really need to free up some room for Semin, we certainly can. Likely buy out Ruutu in that scenario, and free up $4M per year going forward.

Looking at CapGeek, we're not in that bad a situation as some would like us to believe. Cap drops to $64M next year, but right now, we're $14M under it. Buy out Ruutu and you're looking at $18M in cap freedom going into the offseason, while needing to re-sign Semin, LaRose, Nodl, Brent, Corvo, Sanguinetti, and Ellis (or, likely, finding replacements for them). Now, Corvo will likely be replaced by Murphy, and we'll probably try to re-sign Sangs on the cheap. Nodl and Brent will probably both get slight raises if we don't let them walk, and we might increase Ellis' salary to something like $1M per, assuming he keeps playing lights out behind Cam. Either LaRose walks, or we try to sign him to either the same contract, or maybe a slight paycut. He's not worth $1.7M playing 4th line minutes anymore. Still plenty of room to get Semin under the cap and still have flexibility for the future.

Now, yes, we'll need to worry about re-signing Faulk and possibly McBain next year. Faulk will likely get the bigger of the 2 contracts, but you're probably looking at something like $2-2.5M per year for each, very much like what Subban signed. We're also going to see Jussi's $3M come off the books that same offseason, We're also going to be dealing with Pitkanen's contract as well, but we should be able to fit all 3 back in the fold if thats the direction we want to take. Should still have some room to hit the market if we so desire. Then again, there's also the chance we let someone like McBain walk, or trade him away, to free up some room for what we'll eventually try and get Marc Staal signed for. Either way, we should have the financial means to do so if we so desire.

The thing is, with the guys we would have as our core, the need to bring in any more high dollar forwards is completely satisfied. We could more than afford to round out our lines with a good, cheap, checking 4th line, and the leftovers of our scorers on the 3rd like we have now. We can also put cheap scorers on the first line and still be good. Our only big need would be one true top defender that would solidify a Top 6 on defense. Right now, we're pretty much one guy short of having a very good defense, with everyone playing just about 1 spot higher than they should be.

Once again, this is assuming we want to start spending close to the Cap, which I think is a strong possibility going forward, with the increased revenue sharing, the new ownership group, the players we currently have, and the opportunity we have created for ourselves. Either way, I am more than confident we have the financial means to get Semin under the cap next season, and still have the flexibility to go out and do what we can to still better ourselves.


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02-07-2013, 08:15 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Beardy View Post
Looking at CapGeek, we're not in that bad a situation as some would like us to believe. Cap drops to $64M next year, but right now, we're $14M under it. Buy out Ruutu and you're looking at $18M in cap freedom going into the offseason, while needing to re-sign Semin, NOT LaRose, Nodl, Brent, Corvo, Sanguinetti,
FTFY.

None of those other guys offer anything that some league minimum player couldn't offer.

And did I miss reading where Marc Staal said he was planning on coming here?

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02-07-2013, 08:28 AM
  #42
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FTFY.

None of those other guys offer anything that some league minimum player couldn't offer.

And did I miss reading where Marc Staal said he was planning on coming here?
As I said... LIKELY not signing those... You're right, they all basically play at minimum value levels right now. I think LaRose is the most likely to go. He's not going to get top line minutes anymore, so it doesn't make sense to keep him around at that salary. He may be a good locker room guy, but he's a bit expensive for the role he plays.

Only ones I think we may try and re-sign are Sangs and Ellis, unless Brent and Nodl are content with re-upping at minimum wage salaries. Sangs is good for defensive depth, as long as we're not playing him big minutes a night. Ellis has shown he can be a top end backup, which we have desperately needed for a while. Everyone else? Meh, replaceable.

As for Marc... You KNOW we're going to make a run at him, and you KNOW the family pressure for him to join his brothers will be there. Really, at this point, in 2 years from now, I think him hearing about how much fun the other 2 are having together might put us at the top of his list of places to sign if he doesn't re-up in NY. All speculative, but then again, we all said the same thing about Jordan last year, and look what happened.

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02-07-2013, 08:42 AM
  #43
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I have no doubt that the team signs Marc Staal. I would be shocked if he even gets any other offers...as most are assuming he'll be here ASAP anyhow. Then, the Canes will have that unique distinction of having all 4 brothers in their system, even if Jared is playing in the ECHL! I'd almost bet a paycheck, that at some point, early in the 2015 season, all 4 Staal brothers will be on the ice for the Canes for 1 game.



And I see no reason to pay LaRose more than $800,000. He's extremely overpaid, and may end up as trade deadline trade bait, along with one of our younger d-men, like McBain.

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02-07-2013, 08:51 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by TheBigKahuna View Post
I have no doubt that the team signs Marc Staal. I would be shocked if he even gets any other offers...as most are assuming he'll be here ASAP anyhow. Then, the Canes will have that unique distinction of having all 4 brothers in their system, even if Jared is playing in the ECHL! I'd almost bet a paycheck, that at some point, early in the 2015 season, all 4 Staal brothers will be on the ice for the Canes for 1 game.



And I see no reason to pay LaRose more than $800,000. He's extremely overpaid, and may end up as trade deadline trade bait, along with one of our younger d-men, like McBain.
I mean, think about it... No organization is allowed to tamper with any player while he's still under contract with someone else, but we now have all 3 of his brothers in our organization, all living in the same state within a couple hours of each other, and our biggest need for likely this year and next will be a true 1st line d-man. Even though the Canes organization cannot say anything to Marc, you know at every single family function they're going to be talking to him about joining the Canes, and how much the team could really use him, and how awesome it would be for all of them to win the Cup together with the same team. Right now, I just don't see how we aren't going to have him playing for us within a few seasons.

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02-07-2013, 09:53 AM
  #45
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I think if the Canes don't land a top D prospect at the draft, a 1st + McBain + Misc to NYR for Staal would happen.

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02-07-2013, 10:50 AM
  #46
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LaRose gets a lot of undue hate on this board.

As was posted earlier in this topic, LaRose has scored only 5 less goals than Ruutu over the past 3 seasons and I can guarantee, his goals have been of much more significance (in terms of the effect on the game at the time the goal is scored) than Ruutu's.

So if LaRose is overpaid at 1.7 cap (1.9 salary) for scoring 5 less goals than Ruutu (who's known more as a goalscorer than LaRose is in the first place), then what is Ruutu at 4.75 cap (5 salary)?

Even the "physical presence" that Ruutu supposedly brings, his hit totals have been in line with LaRose with the exception of 1 year. And just from watching the two play, LaRose has a much better forechecking presence than Ruutu. Ruutu's more likely to knock a player over, but in terms of actually getting the puck on the forecheck, LaRose seems to be more successful.

That's not to say that the team couldn't stand to cut a little off LaRose's contract, especially if the plan is to keep him on the 4th line for the foreseeable future. But as far as getting rid of him altogether? I don't see why that has to happen. All teams need those role players, and given this organization's attraction to loyalty (for better or for worse), I don't see LaRose going anywhere.

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02-07-2013, 11:57 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
So if LaRose is overpaid at 1.7 cap (1.9 salary) for scoring 5 less goals than Ruutu (who's known more as a goalscorer than LaRose is in the first place), then what is Ruutu at 4.75 cap (5 salary)?
A nightmare!

Or like waking up with a coyote ugly!

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02-07-2013, 12:12 PM
  #48
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his 2.9% shooting can't hold up... He's due to bust out
His career SH% is 13.8. It most certainly will get better.

I hope Semin does re-sign. He looks like he's having so much fun and isn't stuck playing with Perreault and Chimera anymore. He has a legit #1 centre and both are benefiting. The goals will come for Semin.

I think being away from Ovy is good in 3 ways. 1, he's still a complementary pace and not being relied on for all of the offense. 2, he's simply out of Ovy's shadow. And 3, I don't believe Ovy was a good leader and having the Staal's in the room can really help with Semin's perceived attitude. IMO it's always been blown out of proportion that Semin didn't care and all that crap. Rutherford did his due diligence and if it was fishy, he would not have signed him. Obviously he liked what he heard.

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02-07-2013, 12:25 PM
  #49
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I call this the "Jeff Hamilton" rule. About 15 games and 10 points (5 or 6 goals) into his Hurricanes career, I bought his jersey. On my small scale, that was a contract extension for me personally.

Less than 20 games is never, ever, never, enough to invest into the future of a player. Not ever. And we're talking about ten. I think that makes it pretty obvious how I feel about it.

We'll see how highly Semin has "bought in" when the points stop coming. When the line stops scoring. I think he'll come through for us, I really do. I think he knows that this year is an audition for a big contract if not here then elsewhere. He would be silly to pass that opportunity up in such a short season.

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02-07-2013, 01:25 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Plan The Parade View Post
If we signed Semin to a 2/3 year deal at 7 million per, we would have 42 million tied up in 7 players by 2014-2015 (Staal's, Skinner, Ward, Semin, Ruutu and Gleason).

Factor in Faulk raise: Let's say he gets a 5 year, 25 million dollar deal. That's 47 million in 8 players.

Now,

Dwyer at 1 million.
Jokinen (resigned) at 3 million.
Pitkanen (resigned) at 3.5 million.
McBain/Harrison at 2 million.
Jiri Tlusty/LaRose at 1.75 million.
Bowman at 1 million.



63 million in 16 players. We still need:

2 forwards.
1/2 defenseman.
A backup goalie.

(bare minimum to ice an NHL roster)

At around 5-8 million dollars, or an average of less than a million per player.

Given how our prospect pipeline looks, only Rask and Murphy will contribute as anything above solid NHL'ers on cheap ass contracts, so I would be wary of signing Semin to 7 million a year. If he regresses at all, we are screwed. We need him to be a PPG winger. So far, he has done slightly below that, but given the amount of iron he has hit, the woeful success of our power play and general learning curve, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

But enough beating around the bush: if we sign Semin, then this is going to be our core for the next 5 years. No turning back. The question is, do we want to go into April year in, year out with an offensive attack that features the Staal's, Skinner and Semin? Are we comfortable with the defense as it stands? If we sign Semin to a longer term deal, then we simply won't have the money to get a significant upgrade to our defense, which is concerning given that Pitkanen is close to 30. His freakish stamina won't last forever.
dang -larose is overpaid! also, what is the trade deadline in this ugly stepchild kind of shortened season?

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