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Flyers sign Timonen to a one-year extension, reported at $6m and a NMC (upd: post #1)

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Old
02-07-2013, 03:47 AM
  #101
Jtown
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
Kimmo is so money on the point of the power play....people do not even realize how much of a rock this guy is.
i totally know how much of a rock he is , especially if a puck bounces over his blade. Those times his likeness to a rock really shows through when we give up breakaway short happened attempts.

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02-07-2013, 04:24 AM
  #102
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As much as we need his service but 6M committed to a defenseman his age is always risky because they are much more injury prone.

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02-07-2013, 04:40 AM
  #103
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i totally know how much of a rock he is , especially if a puck bounces over his blade. Those times his likeness to a rock really shows through when we give up breakaway short happened attempts.
Well, Giroux passed about 80% of his passes back and forth with Timonen last season on the PP. This year it is approaching 95%. It is a little too telegraphed IMO.

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02-07-2013, 05:22 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by FlyingHigh28 View Post
The other sad fact that nobody wants to hear is that this team is not a contender.
Funny, you argued that this team was a contender and only needed a#1 defensemen in another thread and should of sold a lot of youth to get Weber. So which is it?

So signing the best available UFA defensemen is prolonging the Flyers mediocrity? Last time I checked the Flyers aren't mediocre. 5 straight trips to the playoffs, 4 trips to the 2nd rd, 2 trips to the conference finals, 1 trip to the Stanley Cup finals. That right there is mediocrity? You might want to check out the record of other teams in the last 5 years. Only 8 or 9 teams have actually made the playoffs each of the last 5 years. Rangers haven't, New Jersey haven't. You got only Boston Pittsburgh and Washington as the only other teams in the east. So the only way you must be judging success is winning the Stanley Cup. Vancouver and San Jose must be terrible to you and should gut their rosters and rebuild.

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02-07-2013, 05:28 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by FlyingHigh28 View Post
There was a time when I would try and look deep into Holmgren's moves as a GM and try to figure out the long-term strategy. Now I've just accepted that there is none. It's sad, but true. Holmgren has no idea who will/won't be available in 2014, so to plan your next 2 or so years around it is ridiculous.

The other sad fact that nobody wants to hear is that this team is not a contender. Not with Timonen, not without Timonen, we're just not an upper echelon team right now. With this young core in place, a good GM would be looking to make long-term moves, not trying to plug holes with quick fixes so that we can just keep making the playoffs and going 1 and done. Timonen is a very nice player, even at his advanced age. He's a shell of his former self, but he's still our best defender (another sad but true fact). With that being said, he's not a long-term piece and unless he's giving us a discount, there's no reason to sign him now. He's old. Injuries happen to older players more frequently. Older players often slow down too. Timonen has been having trouble in the playoffs for several years now. What happens if he slows down again this year if/when we make the postseason? The entire reason you sign a 38 year old defenseman for a 1 year 6M deal is because you are under the delusion that we can win now. If he slows down in the playoffs, that doesn't help your team win a cup in the least.

If this extension is true, Timonen's extension is simply prolonging our mediocrity. Too good to miss the playoffs and draft an impact D, too bad to truly contend for a cup. And he'll also be taking up valuable cap space that we could've used to add a long-term asset (*cough* PERRY *cough*). There's no upside to this move. Nor was there any real downside to letting him walk this summer.

Everyone wants to believe you can rebuild on the fly and stay in contention, but it just doesn't work like that. I'm willing to take a step backwards because I'm tired of watching this team toil in mediocrity. Clearly many people here disagree.
i think what your speaking to is a greater justification for the permanent change to a draft lottery. the assurrance of highe value picks for bottom feeding teams removes the impetus to compete in the short term. the focus on parity is to enusre that every team plays the best team available every year. a rebuilding team is a tanking team.the flyers just signed the best defenseman available this offseason thats a good move.

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Old
02-07-2013, 06:28 AM
  #106
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As much as I like kimmo, I think 6 mil is too much. Not that he's not worth it just that giving him that much all but assures the flyers are not getting perry/can't even offer him a competitive contract without moving significant salary. This team still won't be ready to compete with its holes and signing perry could fill one of those holes for a long time. Kimmo is great and he makes us much better on defense as well as the pp but one more year for him means potentially sacrificing years of an all-star winger.

I'm not saying signing perry makes them a contender but the flyers have a good sized window here w/ this young core and they should be able to get there hands on a #1 in the next 5 yrs or so some way or another (draft, trade or dare I say via offer sheet). I guess I'm saying perry is more valuable to the flyer then kimmo as we have to look at more then just next season but the following 5-10 as well. Just my opinion


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02-07-2013, 06:54 AM
  #107
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$6M seems a little high, but I guess it is worth it.

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02-07-2013, 07:01 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
As much as I like kimmo, I think 6 mil is too much. Not that he's not worth it just that giving him that much all but assures the flyers are not getting perry/can't even offer him a competitive contract without moving significant salary. This team still won't be ready to compete with its holes and signing perry could fill one of those holes for a long time. Kimmo is great and he makes us much better on defense as well as the pp but one more year for him means potentially sacrificing years of an all-star winger.

I'm not saying signing perry makes them a contender but the flyers have a good sized window here w/ this young core and they should be able to get there hands on a #1 in the next 5 yrs or so some way or another (draft, trade or dare I say via offer sheet). I guess I'm saying perry is more valuable to the flyer then kimmo as we have to look at more then just next season but the following 5-10 as well. Just my opinion
Amnesty Briere, sign Perry.

Not that hard.

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02-07-2013, 07:09 AM
  #109
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Wow, surprised that he is coming back at all, but also that the Flyers gave him that much money.

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02-07-2013, 07:10 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Amnesty Briere, sign Perry.

Not that hard.
Meh. A little more complicated than that. Amnesty Briere, Perry signs elsewhere, then where do you go?

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02-07-2013, 07:24 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
As much as I like kimmo, I think 6 mil is too much. Not that he's not worth it just that giving him that much all but assures the flyers are not getting perry/can't even offer him a competitive contract without moving significant salary. This team still won't be ready to compete with its holes and signing perry could fill one of those holes for a long time. Kimmo is great and he makes us much better on defense as well as the pp but one more year for him means potentially sacrificing years of an all-star winger.

I'm not saying signing perry makes them a contender but the flyers have a good sized window here w/ this young core and they should be able to get there hands on a #1 in the next 5 yrs or so some way or another (draft, trade or dare I say via offer sheet). I guess I'm saying perry is more valuable to the flyer then kimmo as we have to look at more then just next season but the following 5-10 as well. Just my opinion
I would love Perry too and he does fill a huge need but wait till you see his caphit. Zach Parise's first 7 years of his contract: $12 mil, 12, 11,9,9,9,9. Thats $71. That would be over a 10 mil a year cap hit. I dont think Perry will get that much, but is $9 mil a year hit out of the question? It is will definitely be 8+. If its Kimmo for 1 year at 6 or Perry for 7 years at 9, I take Kimmo especially with Giroux coming up next year.

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02-07-2013, 07:28 AM
  #112
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Kimmo is easily worth 6m on a one year deal. He's without a doubt still a top pairing defensemen if not an elite #1 anymore.

Look, going without a #1 defensemen in this league is asking for finishing in the bottom 3rd of the standings. This buys holmgren an extra year to try and figure something out long term back there. It had to be done.

I'm far from a fan of many of Holmgren's moves, but this is a no brainer

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02-07-2013, 07:30 AM
  #113
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I am a huge fan of kimmo. I am fine with this. They need him, the D is not ready for a transition. Coburn really needs to become that guy on D, I am still holding out hope.

it's one year.

$6mil 1 year I am good and go year by year
I would be concerned if they gave him 2 years at 5.5



they need a stud winger. it is irritating me to no end right now.

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02-07-2013, 07:31 AM
  #114
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Also, the Perry talk is kind of dumb. Do you really want to shell out a max term/dollar value contract for a UFA winger when we are just about to get out from under some of these contracts (Briere)?

Flexibility is important and despite a rough start this team has plenty of talent up front. It's still young enough that consistency should be found over the next few seasons with them.

Perry eats up resources that need to be allocated to fixing the D long term

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02-07-2013, 07:35 AM
  #115
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Meh. A little more complicated than that. Amnesty Briere, Perry signs elsewhere, then where do you go?
You wait until you have an agreement with Perry. But to be honest, I wouldn't mind Briere going anyway even if the Flyers don't get Perry.

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02-07-2013, 07:37 AM
  #116
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Good signing, its only a one year deal and could you imagine this defense without kimmo back there? Absolutely brutal, no-brainer to bring him back despite the cap hit.

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02-07-2013, 07:46 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Meh. A little more complicated than that. Amnesty Briere, Perry signs elsewhere, then where do you go?
Meh. not as complicated as you make it sound. Go after Perry, if he signs, Amnesty Briere. In the offseason you can go over the cap.

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02-07-2013, 07:47 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I would love Perry too and he does fill a huge need but wait till you see his caphit. Zach Parise's first 7 years of his contract: $12 mil, 12, 11,9,9,9,9. Thats $71. That would be over a 10 mil a year cap hit. I dont think Perry will get that much, but is $9 mil a year hit out of the question? It is will definitely be 8+. If its Kimmo for 1 year at 6 or Perry for 7 years at 9, I take Kimmo especially with Giroux coming up next year.
That's not how it's going to work. You can't just take the first 7 years of a guys contract thats front loaded and say that's what they would have been paid on a 7 year deal. Not a chance Perry gets a $9M cap hit. If he does, I sure as hell hope it's not here.

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02-07-2013, 08:03 AM
  #119
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I'm fine with the $6M; Kimmo's not only the team's best PMD, he's the team's only PMD.

The core of the defense is young and Timonen's role as a mentor for this group shouldn't be undervalued. Not only is he a mentor for the young guys, he's also still the best option in pressure situations.

Had the Flyers let him walk this off-season, or he retired, there wouldn't be anybody available through free agency that could replace what Kimmo provides to this team.

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02-07-2013, 08:23 AM
  #120
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Also, the Perry talk is kind of dumb. Do you really want to shell out a max term/dollar value contract for a UFA winger when we are just about to get out from under some of these contracts (Briere)?
The Flyers need a finisher. Hartnell served that purpose last year, but statistically speaking his shot percentage screams career year. A Corey Perry makes our PP a lot better. He makes Giroux better. He makes the team tougher.

With Cousins, Laughton and Noebels coming along soon to fill very cheap 3rd line positions, Perry is an excellent target.

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02-07-2013, 08:36 AM
  #121
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Amnesty Briere, sign Perry.

Not that hard.
while i'm all for it, i dont think the flyers will be that willing to do so.

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02-07-2013, 08:43 AM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
You wait until you have an agreement with Perry. But to be honest, I wouldn't mind Briere going anyway even if the Flyers don't get Perry.
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Originally Posted by CoatesysFlask View Post
Meh. not as complicated as you make it sound. Go after Perry, if he signs, Amnesty Briere. In the offseason you can go over the cap.
It still leaves holes open IF he signs. The guy is a former MVP, his salary is going to be AT LEAST the same as Briere, if not more. The cap is going down. Signing Perry helps out with a good winger for Giroux, but then you have to also replace Briere with a smaller amount of money. Not to mention that signing Perry is not as easy in the real world as it is on the Playstation. I don't think Perry is coming here regardless of what happens with Briere.

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02-07-2013, 08:47 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
I'm fine with the $6M; Kimmo's not only the team's best PMD, he's the team's only PMD.

The core of the defense is young and Timonen's role as a mentor for this group shouldn't be undervalued. Not only is he a mentor for the young guys, he's also still the best option in pressure situations.

Had the Flyers let him walk this off-season, or he retired, there wouldn't be anybody available through free agency that could replace what Kimmo provides to this team.
Is it though? Coburn, Mez, and Grossmann are all 27-28. That's not really young. I know that D men are on a different career arc than forwards, but I'm not sure we're going to get much more out of them than what we already are. If anything now is the year for these guys to do it because all we have is an aging Timonen in front of them on the depth chart.

I agree that if there wasn't going to be anyone out there next year, spending $6mil on Timonen for a year is better than spending $5.5 mil a year on a Matt Carle type player for 5 years.

I think this team has 2 glaring holes that are going to hold it back, a legit #1 Dman, and a 1st line goal scoring forward. I still think we may have traded that forward this past offseason for a guy who isn't going to be that defenseman.

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02-07-2013, 08:58 AM
  #124
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Is it though? Coburn, Mez, and Grossmann are all 27-28. That's not really young. I know that D men are on a different career arc than forwards, but I'm not sure we're going to get much more out of them than what we already are. If anything now is the year for these guys to do it because all we have is an aging Timonen in front of them on the depth chart.
I still consider them young, yes.

All three should still be on an upward trend in their career skills arc, though much of that arc falls on the mental side of their game instead of their phyical skills. I don't believe that any of the three will ever be considered a true #1 defenseman (their offensive skills aren't good enough), but they are still young enough to grow significantly from the experience they each earn over the next few seasons. Having Kimmo around for this year and next will be a bonus for all three guys... and that's without considering the impact he'll have on Luke.

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02-07-2013, 09:02 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
It still leaves holes open IF he signs. The guy is a former MVP, his salary is going to be AT LEAST the same as Briere, if not more. The cap is going down. Signing Perry helps out with a good winger for Giroux, but then you have to also replace Briere with a smaller amount of money. Not to mention that signing Perry is not as easy in the real world as it is on the Playstation. I don't think Perry is coming here regardless of what happens with Briere.
I agree that it's unlikely Perry signs here either way but you made it sound like the idea of buying out Briere to sign perry wouldnt work because we could lost Briere and not even get Perry, which just isnt true.

Also, why would you have to replace Briere with a smaller amount of money? Wouldnt Perry be replacing Briere?

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