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Devils Acquire Andrei Loktionov

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02-07-2013, 08:55 AM
  #326
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Originally Posted by MartyOwns View Post
- our first line not scoring while we're 1 game over .500

-typical low risk high reward move, but i dont think lou's done dealing and im going to reserve judgement until i hear from Lou on this trade and its implications

not sure if i have high standards or tunnel vision
You're a "glass half empty" type of guy. We're one point away from being on top of the hardest division in hockey, with a game in hand, and you're talking about being 1 game over .500?

Our first line isn't scoring in our first 9 games, so we should start losing sleep over it like it's the end of the world? Do you expect Kovalchuk to score a goal a game? What's your expectations when talking about our 1st line?

Lou acquired a promising player, that still needs to prove himself, for a 5th round draft pick. That's the value we got from Calgary for Pierre-Luc Letourneau Leblond, who's nothing else then a crazy maniac on skates who makes Cam Janssen look like Cam Neely.

I hope you don't have the same type of "vision" on life cause you're probably walking with a dark cloud over your head 24/7.

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02-07-2013, 08:56 AM
  #327
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Originally Posted by frankiedue View Post
I agree with Eggers. Just because he got traded for a 5th round pick means his upside is lower than Matteau's??? Remember, Loktionov has lost almost all value because it is believed he will sign with the KHL after this season is over. He is also having a "down" year in the AHL compared to previous years (only 22 points in 37 games).

What can we really hope for Matteau in his prime years? A physical 2nd/3rd liner who can score 15-18 goals?

The scouting reports on Loktionov talk about 1st line potential. He scored almost a point per game pace as a 19 year old in the AHL. So he couldn't crack the lineup of a Stanley Cup team who is stacked down the middle. That means his upside is lower than that of a 2nd/3rd liner?

None of us really know what will happen with these players, but as a prospect analysis, you have to say Loktionov has higher upside than Matteau.
I'd think 15-18 goals would be a safe prediction for Matteau's upside. And all things considered, I think expecting at least that is very reasonable. But I think we can hope for a lot more. Not crazy to hope for 25-30 out of Matteau in his prime.

Now I don't really know anything about Lokti, but it sounds like his lack of physicallity and his D will be hurdle's he will have to overcome. I don't see similar hurdle's for Matteau. So I see Matteau as a more sure fire prospect, but also one with a similar high end potential.

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02-07-2013, 09:02 AM
  #328
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Bobby Carpenter
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Wasn't bonk a top pick?

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02-07-2013, 09:07 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by MartyOwns View Post
- our first line not scoring while we're 1 game over .500

-typical low risk high reward move, but i dont think lou's done dealing and im going to reserve judgement until i hear from Lou on this trade and its implications

not sure if i have high standards or tunnel vision
-I'm really not worried about the top line right now. If it continues another 10 games, I might be, but right now I'm not concerned.

-Agree Lou is not done dealing, this is obviously not the deal we've been expecting in which the Defensive glut will be cleared and a ready to compete in the playoffs fwd is brought in. But if we look at the trade on the value of the trade itself. This is more then a Meh. Basically got a pretty good looking prospect, a 22 yr old who has produced very well in the AHL, for nothing.

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02-07-2013, 09:25 AM
  #330
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The more I'm reading about him this morning, I think he's going to see Kovalchuk a lot on his double shifts. Could work out well in the right situation. (5v5 offensive zone draws)
That's part of the problem imo CB. Acquire more forwards and still double-shift Kovy? Of all the songs surrounding Kovy that Jim has broadcast from high atop the mountain from WWJD, the one catchy tune that is stuck in my head worse than a Lady Gaga hook is how much better Kovy produces as his ice time goes down. 5on5 double shifts, PP and PK duty and we're using him more than the captured ship double shooter on Galaga during a bonus stage. We've got another 12 years of that contract and I'd like him to have some ankles left outside the next 3 seasons.

Sure the pundits will source his 5th place stats in scoring despite leading all forwards and nearly all defenseman in ice time last year but we've seen it first hand that results in more floating.

Last year he was the only forward with more than 23 minutes per game average with 24:26 per game. This year he is already at 26:08 - more than 4 minutes over the next closest forward.

There is a diminishing return for every extra minute he's on the ice and when he's closer to half the game than a third, something is wrong with the lineup. I hope this kid can help relieve that depth issue, but if we're just swapping him out for Barch, Harrold, Butler, Anderson or whatever the 4th line winger of the week is rather than filling it then I fear the team that goes as Kovy goes will be going golfing much sooner than last year. We can only live off Clarkson's goals and the CBGB line's enery so long before the cupboard is empty.

I want tangible depth that can play now and afford us rolling 4 lines not 3 & 2/3rds.

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02-07-2013, 09:26 AM
  #331
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A friend just sent me a message....

"I think the Devils brass see the potential for Sergei Brylin 2.0"


What do you think?

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02-07-2013, 09:37 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by KovyLove View Post
A friend just sent me a message....

"I think the Devils brass see the potential for Sergei Brylin 2.0"


What do you think?
...so 3 more Cups in the immediate future?

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02-07-2013, 09:39 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by KovyLove View Post
A friend just sent me a message....

"I think the Devils brass see the potential for Sergei Brylin 2.0"


What do you think?
I don't know. I suppose it's possible and I'd be ecstatic if he brought us what Sergei did (mostly participating in three championships )

But Brylin seemed to be much more of a grinder than Lokti is purported to be. While they seem to be of a similar stature, Brylin seemed to be a bit thicker and tougher to put off the puck. Also, when I think of Brylin, I think of a balanced passer/scorer, where Loktionov seems decidedly pass first.

However, revisiting Brylin's stats suggests some bias as a setup man.

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02-07-2013, 09:43 AM
  #334
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Little late to the thread, but I see he's been sent to Albany. What about we shift Josefson from center to wing?

Josefson-Loktionov-Butler

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02-07-2013, 09:46 AM
  #335
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Brylin was the ultimate utility forward. Wing, Center, forecheck, backcheck, setup or shoot bottom 6 grinder and was strong on the puck for his size. I'm not hearing a lot of those traits in comparison for Loki.

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02-07-2013, 09:49 AM
  #336
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A first overall pick? Nahhh...But look at this quote from his draft year

When asked what makes him so productive, Kovalchuk said: "I simply do not know what fear is while being on the ice. Hockey should be played only by real men, shouldn't it? If you want to be safe then do not step onto the ice. If you play this game then be ready to fight!"


Full Article - http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sport...-kovalchuk.htm
I was just baiting, but ya that quote is raw

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02-07-2013, 09:51 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Richer's Ghost View Post
Brylin was the ultimate utility forward. Wing, Center, forecheck, backcheck, setup or shoot bottom 6 grinder and was strong on the puck for his size. I'm not hearing a lot of those traits in comparison for Loki.
That's right. While it remains to be seen, the mantra being repeated by LAK fans is that Lokti must play center and is ineffective on the wing. Does not scream a jack-of-all trades forward like Brylin.

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02-07-2013, 09:53 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
You're a "glass half empty" type of guy. We're one point away from being on top of the hardest division in hockey, with a game in hand, and you're talking about being 1 game over .500?

Our first line isn't scoring in our first 9 games, so we should start losing sleep over it like it's the end of the world? Do you expect Kovalchuk to score a goal a game? What's your expectations when talking about our 1st line?

Lou acquired a promising player, that still needs to prove himself, for a 5th round draft pick. That's the value we got from Calgary for Pierre-Luc Letourneau Leblond, who's nothing else then a crazy maniac on skates who makes Cam Janssen look like Cam Neely.

I hope you don't have the same type of "vision" on life cause you're probably walking with a dark cloud over your head 24/7.
think im going to just say ‘agree to disagree’ at this point. we’re both reiterating the same points over and over across multiple threads. I cant wait for kovy to get like 2 points in a game so I can see your sarcastic ‘ohh noooes we need to move him naaaooooooo lullllz’ posts. and I want to clear up something personal you’ve brought up multiple times now. im not a pessimist. I don’t walk around with a dark cloud over my head. I don’t hear voices telling me to do things, unholy things. im a realist, with flights of ridiculous OPTIMISM, believe it or not.

allow me to summarize my position in a different way, you can feel free to counter, and then lets just move on or continue in PM’s, as this has to be annoying to others by now.

if every other player hadn’t gotten moved over the course of these weeks, I wouldn’t have even brought it up. when only ONE player, our BEST offensive player DOESN’T get moved (back to his ORIGINAL position, no less) I have a problem. according to you, we’re having some sort of fairy tale season- we’re playing amazing, we should all be pooping rainbows. but even with this happy go lucky season, we’ve moved almost every other player. different lines, different positions, you name it. kovy? still a 1st line RW. maybe teams are having an easier time shutting him down on the RW? whatever the reason (and I don’t pretend to know it) its not working. I understood it when parise was here. let’s keep our d-bag, pretty boy UFA happy on LW. he bolted, yet kovy remains.

and again- you seem content until we start to slump. THEN you want to make changes- when the pressure is highest and we’ve lost maybe another 2-3 weeks of the season. may I ask what is so wrong about putting kovy at LW for one game? one period? why has this never been even considered? kovys here to score goals. lets put him in the best position to do so.

anyway, seriously- you can stop insinuating im on the verge of a mental collapse over this. im happy about most everything else on this team. we’re “winning” we’re (due to OT/SO losses) in a good standings position. im ok with all of that. I just think its time to unleash the guy we paid 100MM for.

And to answer your question, I don't think its unreasonable to expect a goal per game (or 2 points per game) from your top line.

the end

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02-07-2013, 09:55 AM
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richer's Ghost View Post
Brylin was the ultimate utility forward. Wing, Center, forecheck, backcheck, setup or shoot bottom 6 grinder and was strong on the puck for his size. I'm not hearing a lot of those traits in comparison for Loki.
aka

Zubrus

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02-07-2013, 09:59 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by Richer's Ghost View Post
Brylin was the ultimate utility forward. Wing, Center, forecheck, backcheck, setup or shoot bottom 6 grinder and was strong on the puck for his size. I'm not hearing a lot of those traits in comparison for Loki.
I hear you and I have my reservations as well...I don't know his game at all but some of things I hear seem to be red flags?

But On Brylin, he was drafted as play making center 42nd overall.

It took him a ton of time to really establish himself in the unique utility role...It was like 4 or 5 years Brylin was up and down between Albany and New Jersey.

The path seem similar at least...And every scouting report I've seen mentions his defensive awareness. That has to be the major reason DeBeor and Lou are willing to take a flyer in my mind...Of course, I'm just speculating but from the description of Loktionov that I've read here, I have to believe the Devils see something entirely different.

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02-07-2013, 10:16 AM
  #341
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Originally Posted by KovyLove View Post
I hear you and I have my reservations as well...I don't know his game at all but some of things I hear seem to be red flags?

But On Brylin, he was drafted as play making center 42nd overall.

It took him a ton of time to really establish himself in the unique utility role...It was like 4 or 5 years Brylin was up and down between Albany and New Jersey.

The path seem similar at least...And every scouting report I've seen mentions his defensive awareness. That has to be the major reason DeBeor and Lou are willing to take a flyer in my mind...Of course, I'm just speculating but from the description of Loktionov that I've read here, I have to believe the Devils see something entirely different.
Well much like the recent Clarkson talk, Brylin could step up and play top 6 even though his overall skillset wasn't the best suited for it. Spurts here and there, the flash in the pan so to speak, but despite his draft position, did anyone really think Brylin was going to be a top 6 center after his first couple of seasons? He was gifted at passing and the puck possession game. Dude could waterbug around the ice and seemingly avoid the big hits and come up with the puck on a steal or out of a scrum but usually that was his highlight of the shift more than a shot or any sort of "dangle" move. Johnny on the Spot was his mantra. He impressed me the most with being fearless when facing the hard hitting lines and still going after the puck and being smart with vision. I can only hope Loktionov has those traits and that's what develops outside his current list of "pros".

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02-07-2013, 10:25 AM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
aka

Zubrus
And I have a feeling, soon to be Matteau.

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02-07-2013, 10:57 AM
  #343
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On Latki, no need to compare him to every small fwd the devils have ever had.

On Kovy at RW and how it hasn't worked. Guy was the leading scorer at RW on a team that went to the scf's last season. I think your argument of "everyone else is moved around, why not Kovy?" is solid. but to say Kovy and the Devils have been ineffective with him at RW is false.

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02-07-2013, 11:00 AM
  #344
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think im going to just say ‘agree to disagree’ at this point. we’re both reiterating the same points over and over across multiple threads. I cant wait for kovy to get like 2 points in a game so I can see your sarcastic ‘ohh noooes we need to move him naaaooooooo lullllz’ posts. and I want to clear up something personal you’ve brought up multiple times now. im not a pessimist. I don’t walk around with a dark cloud over my head. I don’t hear voices telling me to do things, unholy things. im a realist, with flights of ridiculous OPTIMISM, believe it or not.

allow me to summarize my position in a different way, you can feel free to counter, and then lets just move on or continue in PM’s, as this has to be annoying to others by now.

if every other player hadn’t gotten moved over the course of these weeks, I wouldn’t have even brought it up. when only ONE player, our BEST offensive player DOESN’T get moved (back to his ORIGINAL position, no less) I have a problem. according to you, we’re having some sort of fairy tale season- we’re playing amazing, we should all be pooping rainbows. but even with this happy go lucky season, we’ve moved almost every other player. different lines, different positions, you name it. kovy? still a 1st line RW. maybe teams are having an easier time shutting him down on the RW? whatever the reason (and I don’t pretend to know it) its not working. I understood it when parise was here. let’s keep our d-bag, pretty boy UFA happy on LW. he bolted, yet kovy remains.

and again- you seem content until we start to slump. THEN you want to make changes- when the pressure is highest and we’ve lost maybe another 2-3 weeks of the season. may I ask what is so wrong about putting kovy at LW for one game? one period? why has this never been even considered? kovys here to score goals. lets put him in the best position to do so.

anyway, seriously- you can stop insinuating im on the verge of a mental collapse over this. im happy about most everything else on this team. we’re “winning” we’re (due to OT/SO losses) in a good standings position. im ok with all of that. I just think its time to unleash the guy we paid 100MM for.

And to answer your question, I don't think its unreasonable to expect a goal per game (or 2 points per game) from your top line.

the end
So the player that finished 5th overall in pts last year, playing on the right side might I add, should be moved to the left side for what reason? I've yet to get a solid reason from you and no, being in a 9 game slump isn't a valid reason IMO. Did Calgary move Iginla to center or the left wing cause he didn't score a goal before last monday?

Coaches have wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy more patience then fans and if Pete thinks he's more suited to play on the right side, when talking about his OVERALL game, then that's fine by me. There's more to the game of hockey then just scoring goals but we, the fans, tend to look at stat sheets like it's a true indication of what a player is doing on the ice, wich is completely absurd, unless your talking about your fantasy team.

Anyways, like I said, we're one point off the division lead and that's all I care about. Kovalchuk can finish the season with 5 goals and if we end up in the post season, I won't even give a **** cause I like the team, not a individual.

If we were playing like the Capitals, they look like we did when we hired MacLean, I'd be plenty worried but that isn't the case

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02-07-2013, 11:01 AM
  #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KovyLove View Post
A friend just sent me a message....

"I think the Devils brass see the potential for Sergei Brylin 2.0"


What do you think?
Zubrus was pretty much Brylin on steroids. I'd be okay with Matteau turning into either of those guys.

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02-07-2013, 11:03 AM
  #346
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That's part of the problem imo CB. Acquire more forwards and still double-shift Kovy? Of all the songs surrounding Kovy that Jim has broadcast from high atop the mountain from WWJD, the one catchy tune that is stuck in my head worse than a Lady Gaga hook is how much better Kovy produces as his ice time goes down. 5on5 double shifts, PP and PK duty and we're using him more than the captured ship double shooter on Galaga during a bonus stage. We've got another 12 years of that contract and I'd like him to have some ankles left outside the next 3 seasons.

Sure the pundits will source his 5th place stats in scoring despite leading all forwards and nearly all defenseman in ice time last year but we've seen it first hand that results in more floating.

Last year he was the only forward with more than 23 minutes per game average with 24:26 per game. This year he is already at 26:08 - more than 4 minutes over the next closest forward.

There is a diminishing return for every extra minute he's on the ice and when he's closer to half the game than a third, something is wrong with the lineup. I hope this kid can help relieve that depth issue, but if we're just swapping him out for Barch, Harrold, Butler, Anderson or whatever the 4th line winger of the week is rather than filling it then I fear the team that goes as Kovy goes will be going golfing much sooner than last year. We can only live off Clarkson's goals and the CBGB line's enery so long before the cupboard is empty.

I want tangible depth that can play now and afford us rolling 4 lines not 3 & 2/3rds.
Agree completely. Kovy playing that much more then any other fwd in the league is ridiculous. And it def results in diminishing returns.

This really should be more of a topic.

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02-07-2013, 12:01 PM
  #347
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A friend just sent me a message....

"I think the Devils brass see the potential for Sergei Brylin 2.0"


What do you think?
I feel like Loktionov is look at as a bit more offensively gifted than Brylin was. Although its not a terrible comparison, as Brylin was expected to be much more of a point producer than he ended up being (for the majority of his career, as he did have some good point outputs). Take a bit of the physical game away from Brylin and put it a bit more into the offensive end and it could be a pretty good comparison though.

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Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
aka

Zubrus
Without the size, yeah, pretty much.

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02-07-2013, 12:40 PM
  #348
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On Latki, no need to compare him to every small fwd the devils have ever had.

On Kovy at RW and how it hasn't worked. Guy was the leading scorer at RW on a team that went to the scf's last season. I think your argument of "everyone else is moved around, why not Kovy?" is solid. but to say Kovy and the Devils have been ineffective with him at RW is false.
again, last year is irrelevant. with parise on a line, of course points-wise he's going to do well. parise's gone.

he's not completely ineffective now, but IMO he's certainly been underwhelming. $100 million dollars. he's our go to guy, and we need to get more out of him is my point

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02-07-2013, 12:43 PM
  #349
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Kovy back to starting the game with Matteau (And Josefson I bet takes that spot later in the game) I don't expect much from him at even strength tonight. That line looked their worst when they had a different winger every game.

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02-07-2013, 12:55 PM
  #350
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Not a bad deal. While the largest chance is that he ends up in Russia next season, he is a very talented guy so, there is still a good chance he becomes a solid 2nd-3rd center, and a small chance he turns into a good scoring line center. A fifth is more than likely nothing, so its a steal all things considered. Wouldn't mind seeing him get a could games next to Kovy if he proves himself, no reason why he couldn't pull a Henrique, certainly a more hyped prospect than Henrique was before Adam broke out.

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