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Johansen Sent Down to Springfield

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Old
02-06-2013, 08:28 PM
  #76
stevo61
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Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
The question is---what AHL can give him... he is too good for this league. IMO we could trade Brassard and five a chance Johansen. Brassard is maximum the second line... in reality the third line center no more.
He's not too good for the AHL. He was playing very well there but not dominate enough to say he was too good to be there. It's not in any way going to hinder him and why subject him to another losing season and in my opinion i honestly think he will get better coaching done in the AHL. It's not really any different then last year when a lot of us just wanted Atkinson to stay down and dominate the AHL and stay away from the drama for a bit. Maybe it won't have a huge positive effect and maybe it will, time will tell but in no way will it hurt. Maybe if he were someone with an attitude it could but he doesn't seem like that guy.

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02-06-2013, 09:25 PM
  #77
Ludicrous Speed
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Maybe management has their heads on straight and knows this team won't do much this year, and that Joey can spend some time as an important piece in a winning environment. Then when we have (hopefully) a player or two from the draft that has some offensive ability we can pair them with him fresh off of a confident season ready to take the next step.

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02-06-2013, 09:48 PM
  #78
RDriesenUD
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Originally Posted by Ludicrous Speed View Post
Maybe management has their heads on straight and knows this team won't do much this year, and that Joey can spend some time as an important piece in a winning environment. Then when we have (hopefully) a player or two from the draft that has some offensive ability we can pair them with him fresh off of a confident season ready to take the next step.
Then, why aren't we sending all of our young players down? Again, I have no problem with him being in the AHL. My problem is with the way they did it. They should have never had him on the team if they were going to send him down even when he is one of our best players.

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02-06-2013, 10:22 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
Then, why aren't we sending all of our young players down? Again, I have no problem with him being in the AHL. My problem is with the way they did it. They should have never had him on the team if they were going to send him down even when he is one of our best players.
Because he's not ready and Atkinson is. Calvert is way further along in comparison to Johansen in his development and I don't think he'll get any better or worse in the AHL where as Johansen still needs a little seasoning.

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02-07-2013, 05:58 AM
  #80
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I come in peace... and didn't see a trade thread for you guys...

Is Johansen a possible trade piece at the right price?

The Blues need a true center, and we have some depth on the wings. Perhaps a package centering around Jaden Schwartz for Johansen? Normally you don't make deals in division, but we did get fleeced a bit in the Nikitin Russell deal...so it can't be totally out of the question.

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02-07-2013, 06:07 AM
  #81
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There's no way he's traded unless its a stupid over payment.

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02-07-2013, 06:15 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Ludicrous Speed View Post
Maybe management has their heads on straight and knows this team won't do much this year, and that Joey can spend some time as an important piece in a winning environment. Then when we have (hopefully) a player or two from the draft that has some offensive ability we can pair them with him fresh off of a confident season ready to take the next step.
I would say "spot on" but i am neither pretentious nor British.

To me this signals that mgmt is looking ahead.

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02-07-2013, 07:43 AM
  #83
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It seems to me that the idea of sending Johanson to a winning environment in Springfield cannot hurt. We have to assume that JD was involved in this decision. Cannot see how it would happen without him. So if we are going to trust JD with the re-building of this franchise, we have to trust him with the decision about this re-assignment to Springfield.

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02-07-2013, 08:49 AM
  #84
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Not really sure why all the angst around sending him down to SPR.

He's is a prospect, a project, he was never touted to be NHL ready. He's only 20 years old still developing physically and mentally. He spent some time in the AHL and came to camp much improved but has been unable to sustain it. So back he goes for some more work. Don't think there is any more to it than that, he's not the first in the history of the game and certainly not the last.

Larson and his crew seem to be doing a great job, so put Joey back in his hands. The biggest plus IMO is that he will be getting practice time (reps, reps, reps) and at the center position. Three or four days of work a week plus the games should be just what the doctor ordered. He'll be playing with JAM, Draz, Kubalik, and the rest of the prospects. Additionally Craig and the rest of the vets seem to be providing some great on ice leadership.

So many positives, don't see the negatives.

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02-07-2013, 09:07 AM
  #85
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In a 10 game span we've already decided "whether he can sustain it"? Excellent.

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02-07-2013, 09:19 AM
  #86
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In a 10 game span we've already decided "whether he can sustain it"? Excellent.
Why teach someone how to lose, when he can be a part of a winning team?

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02-07-2013, 09:23 AM
  #87
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In a 10 game span we've already decided "whether he can sustain it"? Excellent.
Perhaps "sustain" was a poor choice of words.

Perhaps "room for improvement" would be a better phrase and SPR would seem to be the best way to achieve that.

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02-07-2013, 11:25 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
Then, why aren't we sending all of our young players down? Again, I have no problem with him being in the AHL. My problem is with the way they did it. They should have never had him on the team if they were going to send him down even when he is one of our best players.
Well, we can't send Atkinson down even if we wanted to he's on IR. Our other "young players" include our defensemen, which as we all know are in short supply right now, and Matt Calvert. Why not send Calvert down? To me, it's because he is playing the role we want him to play, and the barometer of success/confidence in that role isn't quite as tangible as Johansen's. I think Matty merely being on the ice and being trusted can do a lot for his development given the role that we want him to play. His scoring chances are going to come the same way his whole career: by using his speed, work ethic, and opportunistic instincts. He's in a position where NHL experience is a better chance to hone his craft than top minutes in Springfield.

This isn't to say Johansen wasn't filling his role adequately (IMO he was playing better hockey than pretty much anyone else), but it's kind of a waste to see a kid like #19 do all the right things and not get rewarded for them because he's playing with guys who aren't on his level. Never in his career is he going to be the straw that stirs the drink, but what he will be (if he's developed properly and surrounded with guys that can keep up with him) is a guy who you know will put himself and the puck in the position necessary for good linemates to capitalize. A player who you won't notice make a play until the puck is in the back of the net.

My point is, the arrival of those linemates may be just around the corner (Mackinnon, Drouin, Barkov, Shinkaruk, Lindholm are guys that we could be in position to nab, and they would all be great fits with Joey). I'd rather him be an important piece and gain experience than just be put to waste in the NHL, even if he does belong there.

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02-07-2013, 12:24 PM
  #89
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I agree with those that say that better for Johan to play big minutes on a first line in Springy than to play less minutes on a lower line in Cbus.

I think that JD has had enough time to figure out what he has in these Jackets. Quite frankly he has learned that these guys are not going to put forth maximum effort every game, and will not out work teams every night. Get Johan down to a winning Falcons team, and turn him loose. I really don't think him being in Cbus is going to change where we finish.

Atkinson, and Calvert are ready to stay in Cbus, and should stay here to gain the NHL experience.

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02-07-2013, 12:26 PM
  #90
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Even if he has been one of the better forwards, he hasn't been as good as management wants him to be. I think that's the difference between Johansen and other young forwards who didn't get sent down: expectations.

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02-07-2013, 12:27 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Ludicrous Speed View Post
Well, we can't send Atkinson down even if we wanted to – he's on IR. Our other "young players" include our defensemen, which as we all know are in short supply right now, and Matt Calvert. Why not send Calvert down? To me, it's because he is playing the role we want him to play, and the barometer of success/confidence in that role isn't quite as tangible as Johansen's. I think Matty merely being on the ice and being trusted can do a lot for his development given the role that we want him to play. His scoring chances are going to come the same way his whole career: by using his speed, work ethic, and opportunistic instincts. He's in a position where NHL experience is a better chance to hone his craft than top minutes in Springfield.

This isn't to say Johansen wasn't filling his role adequately (IMO he was playing better hockey than pretty much anyone else), but it's kind of a waste to see a kid like #19 do all the right things and not get rewarded for them because he's playing with guys who aren't on his level. Never in his career is he going to be the straw that stirs the drink, but what he will be (if he's developed properly and surrounded with guys that can keep up with him) is a guy who you know will put himself and the puck in the position necessary for good linemates to capitalize. A player who you won't notice make a play until the puck is in the back of the net.

My point is, the arrival of those linemates may be just around the corner (Mackinnon, Drouin, Barkov, Shinkaruk, Lindholm are guys that we could be in position to nab, and they would all be great fits with Joey). I'd rather him be an important piece and gain experience than just be put to waste in the NHL, even if he does belong there.
We can't play them together next year though, because we all know it wouldn't be smart to play a bunch of young guys on the same line. At least, that is what some posters like to always say.

Again, I have said over and over that I have no problem with him being in the AHL. My problem comes with the way they did it and with the fact that they don't demote other guys (to the AHL or to a lower line) who have deserved it more than Johansen.


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02-07-2013, 12:36 PM
  #92
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Perhaps "sustain" was a poor choice of words.

Perhaps "room for improvement" would be a better phrase and SPR would seem to be the best way to achieve that.
Do you think Moore had room for improvement? How about any amount of players that have moved up from the AHL from any team?

Of course there is room for improvement for everyone at that age. That isn't the point. I have no "angst" for the demotion. Having said that, the question is whether they are ready to compete at the NHL level. That is very subjective and, thus, why so much discussion. That is why the guys in the front office are paid the big bucks.

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02-07-2013, 12:39 PM
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Maybe other guys "deserved" to be demoted more, but Johansen's case is different. I think I've already outlined my opinion well, and I think this is a good move. Richards said Johansen didn't seem surprised, and I assume he is taking the move in stride. I see nothing wrong with it given our team's situation, regardless of whether or not he has out-performed others on the roster. Again, it's about him, not anyone else.

As for not playing Joey with one or two of our draft picks – I don't there is another single guy on the roster I'd want beside them. Joey is responsible. He's been trusted late in games and has not been a disappointment. He thinks the game the way the the Dubinskys, Folignos, Umbergers, Dorsetts, etc don't. Not playing these picks with Joey would lead to similar offensive struggles Johansen is having because their linemates wouldn't be able to keep up with them offensively. Aside from Mackinnon, that is. He could spin the wheel without much help.


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02-07-2013, 12:53 PM
  #94
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Ok, so we are claiming that we can't play Johansen because the other guys are two way players? Err, not the same offensive skill? Garbage goal scorers?

So what we need is Rick Nash?

I guess we are sending him down so he can play with JAM? I'm so confused....

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02-07-2013, 01:11 PM
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Ok, so we are claiming that we can't play Johansen because the other guys are two way players? Err, not the same offensive skill? Garbage goal scorers?

So what we need is Rick Nash?

I guess we are sending him down so he can play with JAM? I'm so confused....
I am claiming that Johansen knows where to put the puck for guys who know where to be. The guys on this team don't have the same offensive instincts he does, i.e. they don't read the game the same way he does, and don't put themselves in the spots best to capitalize off of Johansen's instincts. He has, at least in my opinion, by far the highest hockey IQ offensively on this team, and needs smarter players around him. EDIT: Until that happens, why keep him here? Let him dominate another level besides the Junior ranks. He hasn't exactly been king of the AHL. Let him do that and let him be ready to take the next step next year with better players hopefully.

I've seen him make beautiful plays that go unfinished, and ultimately, unnoticed, because of this fact (re: not having players with adequate hockey IQ EDIT: Cam Atkinson comes to mind when I think of the type of player that knows where to be, the type of player Joey needs next to him, which I understand has been the case, I'm merely making a point of it). This is why I stated earlier that he's not a guy you're going to notice until the puck is in the back of the net, but the puck isn't getting into the back of the net because his teammates are not playing off of him well, because they aren't on the same page mentally. It's a vicious cycle.

Rick Nash would have been a great linemate for Joey, and the handful of times the two played together last year I thought Joey did the right things, and thought that with time the two could develop chemistry.


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02-07-2013, 01:28 PM
  #96
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Ok, so we are claiming that we can't play Johansen because the other guys are two way players? Err, not the same offensive skill? Garbage goal scorers?

So what we need is Rick Nash?

I guess we are sending him down so he can play with JAM? I'm so confused....
There is a first time for everything...


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02-07-2013, 01:32 PM
  #97
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Ok, so we are claiming that we can't play Johansen because the other guys are two way players? Err, not the same offensive skill? Garbage goal scorers?

So what we need is Rick Nash?

I guess we are sending him down so he can play with JAM? I'm so confused....
Ironically, to have a competitive team, what we needed was Rick Nash AND all the guys we got from NY for him.

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02-07-2013, 01:36 PM
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Ironically, to have a competitive team, what we needed was Rick Nash AND all the guys we got from NY for him.
And the coach they got rid of a couple years ago that actually had a system.

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02-07-2013, 02:04 PM
  #99
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And the coach they got rid of a couple years ago that actually had a system.
Even better would be to have hired Dineen and kept Gord Murphy. Today's Hitchcock is not the same as the CBJ Hitchcock - a topic we've all but worn out on the boards.

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02-07-2013, 02:14 PM
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Even better would be to have hired Dineen and kept Gord Murphy. Today's Hitchcock is not the same as the CBJ Hitchcock - a topic we've all but worn out on the boards.
I get what you're saying. Technically 7 points in 9 games IS better than 7 points in 10 games, so the team would be better with Dineen...

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