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Old
02-07-2013, 04:50 AM
  #1
DKH
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Bergeron

Love him like the family dog- and before my sometimes over-the-top like/defense (fill in the blank but remember kids read this board) of Knight and Sobotka, there was Bergeron. Been on the Patrice bandwagon since Kirk told me to relax over the pick on 2003 draft day that it was a very good one, he just wasn't one of those guys a lot of people knew about.

I'd like to see Claude if he already hasn't reminded him he is a pretty good offensive player. It's great he won the Selke, he certainly deserved it, but its possible his mindset is leaning to much to this area of the game. I been thinking this lately and when Seguin got flipped off to Krejci's line Seguin went out and was flying around the ice reacting like a kid getting home from a family dress up event and taking the tie and suit jacket of and hitting the backyard.

Come late April I expect to see a dozen goals and twice that assists- he'll go on a run, but he has more to offer now. The first shift with Horton was fanstastic and Bergeron was right there so maybe I should back off a bit, but the past week I been wondering about the Seguin-Bergeron pairing, and Bergeron being to conservative.

Bergeron to me is one of those players who can actually have their cake and eat it to' as they say; he can win the Selke and still be an offensive player- and with Marchand and Seguin he has legit top 6 talent so I expect more than a 5 goal prorated pace.

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02-07-2013, 05:03 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKH View Post
Love him like the family dog- and before my sometimes over-the-top like/defense (fill in the blank but remember kids read this board) of Knight and Sobotka, there was Bergeron. Been on the Patrice bandwagon since Kirk told me to relax over the pick on 2003 draft day that it was a very good one, he just wasn't one of those guys a lot of people knew about.

I'd like to see Claude if he already hasn't reminded him he is a pretty good offensive player. It's great he won the Selke, he certainly deserved it, but its possible his mindset is leaning to much to this area of the game. I been thinking this lately and when Seguin got flipped off to Krejci's line Seguin went out and was flying around the ice reacting like a kid getting home from a family dress up event and taking the tie and suit jacket of and hitting the backyard.

Come late April I expect to see a dozen goals and twice that assists- he'll go on a run, but he has more to offer now. The first shift with Horton was fanstastic and Bergeron was right there so maybe I should back off a bit, but the past week I been wondering about the Seguin-Bergeron pairing, and Bergeron being to conservative.

Bergeron to me is one of those players who can actually have their cake and eat it to' as they say; he can win the Selke and still be an offensive player- and with Marchand and Seguin he has legit top 6 talent so I expect more than a 5 goal prorated pace.
I think Bergeron doesn't have a lot of options when it becomes to his role. He's a premium centerman when it become to faceoffs and let's face it: There's no one, on our team, who can match his defensive game. Seguin was flying, last night, but that was his best game of the season. I don't think it's related to Bergeron at all. I understand your concerns but i don't share them :-)

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02-07-2013, 05:23 AM
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I don't think Bergeron was SEguin's problem or visa a versa.

I do think Bergeron has been snake bit when it comes to scoring, and Bergeron doesn't quite have the scoring hands that some centers do. His skill set is better for the defense and face offs. I do hope Julien leaves Seguin and Horton switched for a while. Bergeron (and Marchand when he comes back) I think may find more scoring opportunity with a big bodied wing who is capable of sniping the good pass into the net.

Guess we learn more on Saturday, but I think it is going to be tough for Bergeron as long as Marchand is out-at least when it comes to scoring.

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02-07-2013, 05:41 AM
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Well personally I think seguin is playing well. It's a score by committee team so I don't care who scores. Seguins been playin a good two way game imo

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02-07-2013, 05:43 AM
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I am not that worried about Bergeron and scoring,any player with the smarts on the ice like he has, his positioning is almost always perfect, will get his ponts . I hope sitting and watching movies on the plan he is not taking Offensive pointers from Paille

Bergeron will get his points and be the leader he is for the Bruins ,how lucky we are that he is a Bruin

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02-07-2013, 06:49 AM
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Hockey is a streaky game. Both Seguin and Bergy will have productive seasons. Best part of Bergeron is he plays the game the way it should be played. Hard nosed but never cheap or dirty. Another cup for the good guy!

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02-07-2013, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by cursednumber6 View Post
Let me just say I am a little worried that Bergeron is starting to age....Speed is not an asset of his ,but he looks slower than I remember. However, Horton's physical presence on the wing should help him considerably compared to Seguin. The problem is that I don't think the 17-46-19 line will hold up defensively. Claude found something that might be good to give the team a boost ocassionally though.
Starting to age? At 28, not worried about his age in spite of him now playing in his 10th year as a Bruin<<I believe it`s 10?

Problem with a shortened season, everything is amplified, Bergy`s going to be fine. This team, as a whole, played it`s best and most dominant game in game 1 of the year against the Rags, hope we see more consistency like that again.

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02-07-2013, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKH View Post
Love him like the family dog- and before my sometimes over-the-top like/defense (fill in the blank but remember kids read this board) of Knight and Sobotka, there was Bergeron. Been on the Patrice bandwagon since Kirk told me to relax over the pick on 2003 draft day that it was a very good one, he just wasn't one of those guys a lot of people knew about.

I'd like to see Claude if he already hasn't reminded him he is a pretty good offensive player. It's great he won the Selke, he certainly deserved it, but its possible his mindset is leaning to much to this area of the game. I been thinking this lately and when Seguin got flipped off to Krejci's line Seguin went out and was flying around the ice reacting like a kid getting home from a family dress up event and taking the tie and suit jacket of and hitting the backyard.

Come late April I expect to see a dozen goals and twice that assists- he'll go on a run, but he has more to offer now. The first shift with Horton was fanstastic and Bergeron was right there so maybe I should back off a bit, but the past week I been wondering about the Seguin-Bergeron pairing, and Bergeron being to conservative.

Bergeron to me is one of those players who can actually have their cake and eat it to' as they say; he can win the Selke and still be an offensive player- and with Marchand and Seguin he has legit top 6 talent so I expect more than a 5 goal prorated pace.
This is a really good, though-provoking post.

As far as Bergy and Seguin not clicking to this point in the season, I think we have seen them work well together in the past, and they have created some opportunities for each other this year, but they just haven't been able to finish. I always thought Bergy and Seguin were a good match for each other because they could think the game at the same level, and I think we saw some of that last year. So, I'm not sure that it's really the two of them together that's the issue, but I do lend some credence to your point about Bergy and perhaps that line, thinking too defensively when they are on the ice.

He is such a great player that he can have his cake and eat it too, as you said, but at a certain point, it seems counterproductive to have your best offensive player (Seguin) and arguably your best offensive line, also be your best shutdown line. If they are matching up against the other team's best, then they are going to be thinking a bit more conservatively to begin with, based on what Claude preaches about team defense. There is no question that it has to take away from Bergy's offensive game a bit.

To make an analogy, it's kind of like a catcher that is great at handling the staff in baseball. Just like Varitek used to, they have to put so much time into their pitchers, that sometimes their own offensive game can suffer.

I don't have a problem with Bergy filling that role on this team, as he is the best in the league at it, and it's an important role to be filled, but should Seguin be tied to his hip, considering you probably want him thinking a bit more offensively?

At one time, I think it served its purpose to have Seguin on that line so that Bergy could "babysit" him as it were, and try to cover up for his defensive deficiencies, but I think Seguin has progressed to the point where you can trust him on a more offensive-minded line. And I think the Bruins need that kind of line to help carry them, especially in games against tough opponents and elite goaltenders. Goals in those games are tough to come by, and sometimes you just need your best skill players to make a play for you.

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02-07-2013, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by gg4167 View Post
This is a really good, though-provoking post.

As far as Bergy and Seguin not clicking to this point in the season, I think we have seen them work well together in the past, and they have created some opportunities for each other this year, but they just haven't been able to finish. I always thought Bergy and Seguin were a good match for each other because they could think the game at the same level, and I think we saw some of that last year. So, I'm not sure that it's really the two of them together that's the issue, but I do lend some credence to your point about Bergy and perhaps that line, thinking too defensively when they are on the ice.

He is such a great player that he can have his cake and eat it too, as you said, but at a certain point, it seems counterproductive to have your best offensive player (Seguin) and arguably your best offensive line, also be your best shutdown line. If they are matching up against the other team's best, then they are going to be thinking a bit more conservatively to begin with, based on what Claude preaches about team defense. There is no question that it has to take away from Bergy's offensive game a bit.

To make an analogy, it's kind of like a catcher that is great at handling the staff in baseball. Just like Varitek used to, they have to put so much time into their pitchers, that sometimes their own offensive game can suffer.

I don't have a problem with Bergy filling that role on this team, as he is the best in the league at it, and it's an important role to be filled, but should Seguin be tied to his hip, considering you probably want him thinking a bit more offensively?

At one time, I think it served its purpose to have Seguin on that line so that Bergy could "babysit" him as it were, and try to cover up for his defensive deficiencies, but I think Seguin has progressed to the point where you can trust him on a more offensive-minded line. And I think the Bruins need that kind of line to help carry them, especially in games against tough opponents and elite goaltenders. Goals in those games are tough to come by, and sometimes you just need your best skill players to make a play for you.
Agree, playing against the other top line has dampened his, and the entire lines' output offensively. I also agree that having Seguin on his line was to mentor him. Is the line change a permanent thing? I don't think so. The team needed something to change to throw the rags something they weren't prepared for.........and it worked. I fully expect the lines to be back to "normal" for the next game. I'm sure CJ will make any adjustments needed.

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02-07-2013, 09:11 AM
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I think the way that line plays effects the break out. They're so defensive minded that no one is cherry picking for a break out. They never seem to get an odd man rush its always Seguin going 1 on 2 or 3 at the blue line. If he can cherry pick a little on Krejci's wing maybe we can get some one on one's or break away's.

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02-07-2013, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by DKH View Post
Love him like the family dog- and before my sometimes over-the-top like/defense (fill in the blank but remember kids read this board) of Knight and Sobotka, there was Bergeron. Been on the Patrice bandwagon since Kirk told me to relax over the pick on 2003 draft day that it was a very good one, he just wasn't one of those guys a lot of people knew about.

I'd like to see Claude if he already hasn't reminded him he is a pretty good offensive player. It's great he won the Selke, he certainly deserved it, but its possible his mindset is leaning to much to this area of the game. I been thinking this lately and when Seguin got flipped off to Krejci's line Seguin went out and was flying around the ice reacting like a kid getting home from a family dress up event and taking the tie and suit jacket of and hitting the backyard.

Come late April I expect to see a dozen goals and twice that assists- he'll go on a run, but he has more to offer now. The first shift with Horton was fanstastic and Bergeron was right there so maybe I should back off a bit, but the past week I been wondering about the Seguin-Bergeron pairing, and Bergeron being to conservative.

Bergeron to me is one of those players who can actually have their cake and eat it to' as they say; he can win the Selke and still be an offensive player- and with Marchand and Seguin he has legit top 6 talent so I expect more than a 5 goal prorated pace.
THis is why you are the best of the best... Just a perfect post.

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02-07-2013, 09:38 AM
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I like the potential of a 63-37-18 line. Horton can be the net front presence, drawing defenders, allowing Bergeron & Marchand space to operate. With Seguin on their line, Marchand or Bergeron were assigned with the task of crashing. Horton may do them some good in that regard.

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02-07-2013, 09:41 AM
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THis is why you are the best of the best... Just a perfect post.
Agreed!!

I was kinda stoked for Bergy to have Horton rather than Tyler (great move Coach)and when Brad comes back, that line will kinda have it all. Each player capable of creating space but more importantly each player is able to work in very tight spaces . . .skills Krejci and Tyler possess to a lesser degree.

Also, nothing against Bourque Jr per se, but Spooner on the 3rd line could also be an interesting mix.

Nice problems to have.

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02-07-2013, 09:45 AM
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Bergeron whole wheat

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02-07-2013, 09:51 AM
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Seguin's problem wasn't Bergeron. It's where Bergeron plays in his own end that puts more of the responsibility of breaking out of the zone, on the wings. Who have both sucked royally on their respective boards so far this year for Bergy. That includes both ends of the ice.

On DK's line, in the defensive zone, they get the puck to Lucic who draws sometimes as many as 2 defenders. He more often than not makes a good pass and they're off. Usually w/ DK skating into the play.

Why it's nice to see Bergeron get some muscle on the boards, and DK some fear inspiring speed on the wing.

Patrice should be fine. However Horton has struggled in the past when moved from his pal Lucic. There should be no reason Horton can't produce w/ Bergeron as his pivot. Hopefully Marchand is back soon.

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02-07-2013, 10:07 AM
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To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure I've ever really loved the Seguin-Bergeron pairing. I think pairing #19 with #46 is a better move, as Krejci is IMO the superior offensive player to Bergeron and he compliments Seguin better. I also like Horton skating on Bergeron's wing, I think that Marchand-Bergeron-Horton could be a dominant 2nd line.

Also not too concerned about Lucic-Krejci-Seguin defensively - Krejci is no slouch in his own zone and they'll probably have the puck in the offensive zone more often than not anyway.

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02-07-2013, 10:13 AM
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Also, can we just call a spade a spade here and admit that the days of Bergeron scoring near a PPG pace are behind him? His main focus is on his defensive game (where he is unparalleled in this league IMO) and this has rightly affected his offensive game. Pre-concussion Bergeron scored 70+ points twice, but he wasn't nearly the complete player then that he is today. Let the other guys shoulder the offensive load while #37 takes on all the top players from the opposition while chipping in 50-60 points a year. I'll take that at his price tag.

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02-07-2013, 10:25 AM
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If you have something else besides your eyes then please link it. Right now Bergeron is playing against the toughest opponents,second to only...Seguin according to Qualcomp.
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+45+46+63+67#

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02-07-2013, 10:30 AM
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If you have something else besides your eyes then please link it. Right now Bergeron is playing against the toughest opponents,second to only...Seguin according to Qualcomp.
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+45+46+63+67#
That's what Bergeron should be doing if he's going to be our shut down Center, BUT why aren't we trying to roll Seguin out against our opponents worst lines? Matchups are huge lets get Seguin on a line with Lucic and try and matchup against inferior lines. Especially at home.

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02-07-2013, 10:42 AM
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What I always loved about Bergeon is that he will do whatever he's asked to and will do it well. If the coaching staff asked him to open up his game, I don't doubt that we'd see more production from him.

The way the team generates offense, and has for a while now, is from tight defensive coverage and taking advantage of miscues. IMO this offensive philosophy is part of why they have trouble on the PP- the rest of their game is designed to grind out chances, when they're a man up they need to rethink the entire apporach.

Always felt that line has been driven by Bergeron and Marchand and that Seguin was a complimentary player. His game is just tuned to a different frequency. Recchi was so effective in that spot, despite his decaying wheels, because he had the same smart/grind out chances game. Got to think Seguin would better thrive in the time and space a guy like Krejci creates.

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02-07-2013, 10:55 AM
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While I'm one who normally says that Seguin needs to increase his battle (and still does, though last night showed him picking it up all over), I think the issue has been for Patty the difference in play style of the line mates. When in tune, that line has typically generated offense by being able to break out cleanly, generate some on the rush and then continue to pressure with puck control, winning battles and cycling. Their speed and creativity have often had them finding the gaps coming off the boards and getting premium chances.

When it's not, Patty isn't extending himself offensively like you mention Dan. Brad has shown that he can- he's willing to take the risk to extend the offense while Patty will make the safe play, and go for the +/- rather than looking to bury it. In short, he looks to have a full line in contribution and in a game where all 3 are acting similarly. If not, he's playing a 70/30 D/Off game, backtracking on lost pucks.

I think if Horton is on that line and Marchand is back, we'll see something interesting. Horton can play a similar game and can play with the puck on his stick- just look at the Carolina goal. If they do get into the proper rotation and can get clean breakouts, it'll make that line dangerous. Lucic's play on the other hand will correct for Seguin's fight and need to work through space rather than with the puck and we might see some offense created on both sides.

In the end I'm not sure if this is what I'd consider a permanent move or the best long term solution- but I do think it will help kick start things and get things to be where they need to be for us to remain on top.

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02-07-2013, 11:02 AM
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He controls the puck in traffic better than any Bruin I can recall. He really just doesn't lose a 1 on 1.

I like the Seguin/Horton switch because it gives you basically the same line twice, with Krejci having a bit more offense and Bergeron having a bit more on defense. Lucic and Horton provide the size, Marchand and Seguin supply the speed, and Krejci and Bergeron are both great playmakers with really good vision. I think both lines have some serious potential to click, given Claude sticks with it for a bit.

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02-07-2013, 11:04 AM
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Just two quick things:

Not that this kind of thing surprises me anymore but that last shift of the Montreal game was dominant for Bergeron. He singlehandedly took the puck away 3x and cleared the zone. Loved it.

Also I've been really impressed with Seguin's defensive play this year. Hustling, taking the body on the backcheck and using his speed. Hope Bergeron's rubbed off on him positively in that regard - he is looking like he can also become a pretty complete player. Loving it.

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02-07-2013, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
THis is why you are the best of the best... Just a perfect post.
Lou, I love you man, but really half my stuff is stolen opinions here, I'm overrated, many know it but I still appreciate it but really I just love the Bruins like most everyone else here.

btw- side note: I'm going to be Jamie's (Godfather) assistant GM and still plan on having Jessie help me with the computer stuff (we are going to the Rags game next week- wish you were here, the guy is a blast to hang with); love the thought of teaming with Jamie

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02-07-2013, 04:08 PM
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DKH - this feels like a reverse jinx thread. If not then I have to ask - seriously? It has been 9 games. Should I just repeat everything I said in the Seguin thread? Does he deserve criticism for not putting the puck in maybe 1 more time? I guess - other than that he has been as good or better than last season which was his best to date.

Bergeron is averaging over 1 more SOG/game than last year but is shooting less than 1/3 his career %. That will normalize over the season. He was also robbed of an assist on the goal that Seguin was robbed of. He could easily have 2G, 5A, 7Pts or more which would put him right on last years pace. If Seguin had been able to bury anything in the first 8 games Bergeron would probably be on over a 70 Pt full season pace.

He is also playing less ES time and more PK time. He has been dominant in every facet of the game. FO% is unreal. He also injured his shoulder a little I think. I'm not sure he was 100% for a couple games.

In response to others, he may never score 70 Pts again but it is only because of ice time - specifically situational. Overall production when he scored 73 Pts - 22:49. Last year - 23:31.

The 9 Pts difference is because he got 2:01 less minutes overall and 2:11 less on the powerplay last year. Bergeron was a better offensive player than he has ever been and much better overall player. By the way he usually starts less shifts in the offensive zone than almost everyone that scores more points than he does. And he dominates these "elite" players head to head.

It has been 9 games. If we need a thread on everyone who isn't scoring we need to start them on Peverley, Kelly, Hamilton and most of the Defense. Maybe we will get a 10 goal game that way.

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