HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Messier to...The Devils?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-07-2013, 09:41 AM
  #1
blamebettman*
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Country: Norway
Posts: 1,948
vCash: 500
Messier to...The Devils?

Not sure how many will remember this, but there some rumors right around the 2000 NHL trade deadline that Lamoriello was in discussion with the Canucks to bring in Mark Messier.

The media got it right that the Devils were talking with Vancouver...I recall it was going to be a much bigger trade. Mogilny and Messier for Morrison, Pederson, a prospect and a pick...eventually it was parsed down to just Mogilny for Morrison and Denis Pederson.

People scoffed at this. No way would Lou trade for Messier. However, he just drafted a guy whose dad crushed the Devils dreams in the 1994 playoffs. He brought back Claude Lemieux after a bitter contract squabble, as well as John MacLean and Bruce Driver in the the organization after what they did.

Could this have happened? I suspect it was closer to happening than we all thought.

blamebettman* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-07-2013, 11:45 AM
  #2
CharlestownChiefsESC
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Laurence Harbor NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 153
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blamebettman View Post
Not sure how many will remember this, but there some rumors right around the 2000 NHL trade deadline that Lamoriello was in discussion with the Canucks to bring in Mark Messier.

The media got it right that the Devils were talking with Vancouver...I recall it was going to be a much bigger trade. Mogilny and Messier for Morrison, Pederson, a prospect and a pick...eventually it was parsed down to just Mogilny for Morrison and Denis Pederson.

People scoffed at this. No way would Lou trade for Messier. However, he just drafted a guy whose dad crushed the Devils dreams in the 1994 playoffs. He brought back Claude Lemieux after a bitter contract squabble, as well as John MacLean and Bruce Driver in the the organization after what they did.

Could this have happened? I suspect it was closer to happening than we all thought.
It would have been a nightmare for my sake.

CharlestownChiefsESC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2013, 02:49 PM
  #3
FakeKidPoker*
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,679
vCash: 500
If I recall Messier actually wanted to stay with the Canucks and even turned down a deal to go to the Stars the year before.

Can't see him okaying a trade to the Devils

FakeKidPoker* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2013, 03:41 PM
  #4
ForsbergForever
Red Rocket
 
ForsbergForever's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,800
vCash: 500
Personally, I really think Messier would have been a good fit with the Red Wings of that era; a skilled veteran among a team full of them.

ForsbergForever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2013, 04:23 PM
  #5
vadim sharifijanov
Rrbata
 
vadim sharifijanov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,168
vCash: 500
on paper, it would have been awesome. three giant centers in arnott, messier, and holik. in practice, i find it hard to imagine 2000 messier accepting a supporting role behind arnott, and without the A line does that team win the cup? and if messier pulls his power move crap with scott stevens... i'd have liked to see the result.

vadim sharifijanov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2013, 05:41 PM
  #6
JWINK19
southern Devils fan
 
JWINK19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Wilmington, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 1,401
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blamebettman View Post
Not sure how many will remember this, but there some rumors right around the 2000 NHL trade deadline that Lamoriello was in discussion with the Canucks to bring in Mark Messier.

The media got it right that the Devils were talking with Vancouver...I recall it was going to be a much bigger trade. Mogilny and Messier for Morrison, Pederson, a prospect and a pick...eventually it was parsed down to just Mogilny for Morrison and Denis Pederson.

People scoffed at this. No way would Lou trade for Messier. However, he just drafted a guy whose dad crushed the Devils dreams in the 1994 playoffs. He brought back Claude Lemieux after a bitter contract squabble, as well as John MacLean and Bruce Driver in the the organization after what they did.

Could this have happened? I suspect it was closer to happening than we all thought.

What Driver did? The guy wanted a no-trade clause so that he wouldn't have to uproot his family since he was happy in NJ, and Lou wouldn't give it to him after 11 years of valued service to the team. The Rangers gave him one and he took it. I don't have any problem with that, and anyone who does needs to take the hate the rival goggles off and try being a human being for a change.

As for Messier, I think 2000 was too soon for that. Yeah, we drafted Matteau's kid, but 18 years is a lot more time to get over past wounds than 6 years.

JWINK19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 01:26 PM
  #7
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,678
vCash: 500
Strange that I don't remember much about this. I guess it's because Messier was so far past his prime in 2000 that you almost forgot he was still in the league. Messier's skills had declined so much by then and the last person who knew this was Moose himself. Would he have been happy being a depth player on a Cup winner. Before you say "Well he was behind Gretzky in Edmonton" remember that he was the 2nd most important piece on that team, and this is Wayne Gretzky we are talking about, everyone checks their ego at the door with him. Would he have been fine with being behind the "A" line and not being the heart and soul leader of that team, which Stevens was?

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 01:38 PM
  #8
tony d
Follow your Nose
 
tony d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Behind A Tree
Country: Canada
Posts: 40,461
vCash: 500
I can remember this rumour as well. Would have been interesting to see how Messier would have performed in New Jersey.

__________________
tony d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 02:41 PM
  #9
begbeee
Registered User
 
begbeee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 4,089
vCash: 500
He would destroy that team unless he put together his role and ego. Probably would be a great addition in #2a and #2b center situation with Arnott #1 as has been mentioned.

begbeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 02:53 PM
  #10
revolverjgw
Registered User
 
revolverjgw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,355
vCash: 500
Lamoriello would put him in his place, even Mess would have to conform

revolverjgw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-05-2013, 08:38 PM
  #11
DisgruntledGoat
Registered User
 
DisgruntledGoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,330
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
on paper, it would have been awesome. three giant centers in arnott, messier, and holik. in practice, i find it hard to imagine 2000 messier accepting a supporting role behind arnott, and without the A line does that team win the cup? and if messier pulls his power move crap with scott stevens... i'd have liked to see the result.


Where does this silliness come from about Messier's ego and, 'not accepting his role' come from, anyway?

Since he was always the best or second-best player on his teams, when was he supposed to accept a secondary role and didn't? In fact, there's a ton of evidence from his Oiler years and Team Canada stints that he accepted and excelled in a ton of different roles and clearly relished the, 'dirty work' that some times came along with that. Add to that there are approximately 34,000 quotes out there from respected hockey people about the kind of teammate he was and it is perplexing to say the least. I mean, this isn't a Patrick Roy who publicly quit on his teams or refused to play for his country unless guaranteed top playing time. Far from it, in fact.

And please. Don't bring up Vancouver since that is a controversy that is entirely fan generated and has been proven as such.

DisgruntledGoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-05-2013, 09:33 PM
  #12
mrhockey193195
Registered User
 
mrhockey193195's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3,970
vCash: 500
I really don't remember this, interesting stuff. I have a gut feeling Messier wouldn't have worked on the Devils. For one, most people agree that his downfall was continuing to think he was a superstar and capable of leading teams like in his younger years, even after his physical skills started to diminish. I don't see that changing if he was on NJ. And along the same lines, not sure he would be able to accept being one of many leaders on a veteran Devils team.

EDIT: also, his allegiance to the Rangers was just too strong, IMO. I cannot possibly imagine Messier putting his heart into the Devils.

mrhockey193195 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 02:58 AM
  #13
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
 
Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 34,749
vCash: 500
I guess the Devils didn't really need Messier on their roster seeing how they won Cups in 2000 and 2003 (and reached the Finals in 2001). Plus, where were they to play Mess on the 2000 roster? That team had Arnott, Gomez, Holik and Nemchinov. Gomez was a rookie that season so I guess it could be argued that he would have been on their 2nd line, but looking back, we can say that the Devils didn't need Messier.

Ziggy Stardust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 03:08 AM
  #14
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 42,688
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I guess the Devils didn't really need Messier on their roster seeing how they won Cups in 2000 and 2003 (and reached the Finals in 2001). Plus, where were they to play Mess on the 2000 roster? That team had Arnott, Gomez, Holik and Nemchinov. Gomez was a rookie that season so I guess it could be argued that he would have been on their 2nd line, but looking back, we can say that the Devils didn't need Messier.
This is the lineup that won the 2000 Cup:

Elias - Arnott - Sykora
Brylin - Gomez - Mogilny
Nemchinov - Holik - McKay
Pandolfo - Madden - Lemieux

Lemieux played with Gomez until Mogilny was brought in.

These were their PP units:

Elias-Holik-Sykora
Arnott - Rafalski

Lemieux-Gomez-Mogilny
Niedermayer-Malakhov

In 2001, Lemieux was replaced by Turner Stevenson at even strength and McKay on the PP.

If they drafted Messier, I could see him taking Brylin's place as second line LW if his ego could handle it. He could have taken faceoffs for Gomez too. Brylin would have probably bumped Nemchinov from the lineup. Messier also probably takes Holik's spot as center of the first PP.

They obviously didn't need him in 2000, but would have have made the difference in 2001? Anything's possible I guess.

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 07:05 AM
  #15
quoipourquoi
Moderator
Goaltender
 
quoipourquoi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hockeytown, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 4,287
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
This is the lineup that won the 2000 Cup:

Elias - Arnott - Sykora
Brylin - Gomez - Mogilny
Nemchinov - Holik - McKay
Pandolfo - Madden - Lemieux

Lemieux played with Gomez until Mogilny was brought in.

These were their PP units:

Elias-Holik-Sykora
Arnott - Rafalski

Lemieux-Gomez-Mogilny
Niedermayer-Malakhov

In 2001, Lemieux was replaced by Turner Stevenson at even strength and McKay on the PP.

If they drafted Messier, I could see him taking Brylin's place as second line LW if his ego could handle it. He could have taken faceoffs for Gomez too. Brylin would have probably bumped Nemchinov from the lineup. Messier also probably takes Holik's spot as center of the first PP.

They obviously didn't need him in 2000, but would have have made the difference in 2001? Anything's possible I guess.
I could see him doing one of two things: drawing penalties against Podein or playing an aggressive physical role against Drury/Hinote/Nieminen. He was still good enough offensively that without facing some match-ups (because Hartley didn't do much to shield his players from Robinson's line-matching), he still could have been an effective player (as he was in both 2000 and 2001).

It would be a good fit, and like Claude Lemieux before him (who is a big-time alpha male leader himself), at one point he and Stevens would probably have a conversation/shouting-match that would bond them. Good fit in New Jersey, had he gone the Bourque route of accepting a trade and re-signing. But he wasn't going to leave a team in the playoff race (Vancouver 2000) that late in the season. That was a good Vancouver roster after all of the changes in 1998 and 1999, and they were just a few points out.

quoipourquoi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 12:44 PM
  #16
kaiser matias
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,103
vCash: 500
Found an AP article on the matter:

Devils deny Messier trade rumors

Quote:
Mark Messier will not be traded to New Jersey because he is too old and makes too much money, the owner of the Devils said.

"I'm not saying we won't make a trade, but it won't be that one," John McMullen said in Tuesdays The Star-Ledger of Newark.

McMullen's comment came a day after the New York Post reported the Devils were close to a deal with the Vancouver Canucks. The Post said the 39-year-old Messier probably would be with New Jersey when the team returns from its seven-game road trip.

Quoting unidentified sources, the Post said the Canucks probably would get centers Denis Pederson and Brendan Morrison plus a second-round draft pick for Messier, a 22-year NHL veteran who recently appeared in his 14th All-Star game.

"He's a fine young man, but what is he now, 40?" said McMullen, whose team has been upset early in the playoffs the last three years. "I'd like to think if we make a trade, it will be for someone who we can keep for a few years.

"Besides, we have a philosophy," McMullen added. "We've been running this team in the proper manner. If we get one $10 million player, what do we do with our other players? I'm not going to do that."

kaiser matias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2013, 09:40 AM
  #17
DisgruntledGoat
Registered User
 
DisgruntledGoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,330
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
This is the lineup that won the 2000 Cup:

Elias - Arnott - Sykora
Brylin - Gomez - Mogilny
Nemchinov - Holik - McKay
Pandolfo - Madden - Lemieux

Lemieux played with Gomez until Mogilny was brought in.

These were their PP units:

Elias-Holik-Sykora
Arnott - Rafalski

Lemieux-Gomez-Mogilny
Niedermayer-Malakhov

In 2001, Lemieux was replaced by Turner Stevenson at even strength and McKay on the PP.

If they drafted Messier, I could see him taking Brylin's place as second line LW if his ego could handle it. He could have taken faceoffs for Gomez too. Brylin would have probably bumped Nemchinov from the lineup. Messier also probably takes Holik's spot as center of the first PP.

They obviously didn't need him in 2000, but would have have made the difference in 2001? Anything's possible I guess.
A Messier-Holik-McKay checking line would have been something.

DisgruntledGoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:34 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.