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02-07-2013, 10:47 AM
  #351
disturbedraven
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Here is a new concept that I am pretty sure all our Center haters can agree on.

Don't like DD? Don't like Pleks? Don't Like Eller? Play with no Centers. That is about the only thing that will end this haters debate.

Then again, people will argue just for the sake of arguing, guess we're back to square one.

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02-07-2013, 10:49 AM
  #352
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Originally Posted by disturbedraven View Post
Here is a new concept that I am pretty sure all our Center haters can agree on.

Don't like DD? Don't like Pleks? Don't Like Eller? Play with no Centers. That is about the only thing that will end this haters debate.

Then again, people will argue just for the sake of arguing, guess we're back to square one.
I love all of our centers. Our problem is our winger depth. One elite first line winger would go along way. We have a couple 1st line players, but none of them are elite.

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02-07-2013, 10:50 AM
  #353
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Originally Posted by disturbedraven View Post
Here is a new concept that I am pretty sure all our Center haters can agree on.

Don't like DD? Don't like Pleks? Don't Like Eller? Play with no Centers. That is about the only thing that will end this haters debate.

Then again, people will argue just for the sake of arguing, guess we're back to square one.
Centers are held up to mythical standards around here, apparently they are responsible for all that is good or bad. Poor Galchenyuk better hope he's at least a PPG player within two years or the pitchforks will be out for him.

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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
I love all of our centers. Our problem is our winger depth. One elite first line winger would go along way. We have a couple 1st line players, but none of them are elite.
Agree, and this is why we should have made an offer for Semin or even Jagr. If Eller and Plekanec are missing breakaways, it's because of how little skill we have up front. Gionta, Cole and Bourque, which is 3/4ths of our top 6, can't pass. I know we are trying to build a culture of toughness, but you also need guys who aren't going to fumble the puck every time they aren't in shooting position. Even Boston up front has Seguin, Horton and Marchand with underrated levels of finesse.

Even Desharnais, who I have been critical about this season, did what he had to. For all the talk of smurfs the problem wasn't getting pushed around, it was that Boston outlasted us.


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02-07-2013, 10:51 AM
  #354
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Soooo we lose to the second best team in the league by one goal in a game where we outchanced them by FAR and people want to trade arguably our best forward?? This board sometimes... I dunno man...

Lets hope we beat up on Buffalo again so everyone can go back to la la land.
It is pathetic for any Habs fan to say 'we lost to a great team, so it's OK.' It's not OK.

Of course we'll lose games. Of course we are not there yet. But we lost this game due to our weakness at center, not because Boston is 10 X better than us.

We are so close to being really good, and Boston exposed our one true weakness. Center. That is what happened tonight.

I care a lot more about losses when I see the Habs close to being a very good team. That is going to be my position this year.

They need to get over the loser hump and find ways to win. They need to do it now.

Stop excusing them, those years are over.

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02-07-2013, 10:51 AM
  #355
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Thought I'd wait a day - My take-away from the game last night as a Bruins fan.

It's nice to see that your team is playing more classic hi-tempo Habs style game again and that your team is finding its identity once again. And that we get to watch our teams play such different styles. I'm actually glad there wasn't any drama last night and the teams just played. We'll still get enough of that so the odd game without as much bad blood is fine.

We are all going to watch a lot of Price vs. Rask showdowns over the next decade. Been figuring that was coming for years but back then I also thought that Pogge would be the 3rd young star goalie in the division so there goes my prognostication skills.

From what I've seen of your team this year, watched a few periods but last night was the 1st full game - is that your team's strengths and weaknesses are related to one another. Your offence seems to need that first smooth pass from your d., which they're excellent at, but it seemed as if the Bruins adjusted and if a team can forecheck or pressure your d-men they get a bit lost. Might be because your forwards don't seem to drop back as much.

The other is that your team seems way more suited for attacking through the middle of the ice. The Bruins are a very good puck pursuit team and pretty tough and it seemed most of the time you guys had to go up the boards as compared to the middle of the ice Boston would be able to rub the player out, limit options, and get the puck back and turn it right back into your zone.

Your bloody power play is back at it, eh. Looked dangerous all game - and that's against the best penalty killing team in the NHL.

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02-07-2013, 10:52 AM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Tim Wallach View Post
People (especially analysts) always like to boil it down to one or two people's fault. But in reality, it's a complexity of reasons a team loses. Last night, for me, far and away the biggest factor was our ineptitude on the draws. Boston controlled the puck off the faceoff all night. Montreal needs to fix that or they'll continue to be at a major disadvantage every time they meet. I equate it to starting the game down 1-0.

I also would have liked to see a few more in-game adjustments. I'm all for consistency on lines, but Prust was clearly ineffective with the puck last night and Eller should have moved to that line with the kids.

As hard as Gionta works, I also found him completely ineffective. Constantly turning the wrong way, hesitating around lose puck battles, etc. And if I'm Plekanec, I turn to him and say: "Brian, I know you're a shooter, but you know what also works every now and then? A pass." Gio always opts for the shot when he has a guy busting to the net.

I could go on, but these were some of the subtleties that cost us last night.
No the reason for the loss was a lot more simple that that.

Luck.

A few bounches (Desharnais, Armstrong, Eller, Pleks) and we crush the Bruins instead of losing a 1-goal game.

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02-07-2013, 10:54 AM
  #357
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post

A few bounches (Desharnais, Armstrong, Eller, Pleks) and we crush the Bruins instead of losing a 1-goal game.
People can't see the forest for the trees. w/o a hot Tukka in the first, it's a totally different game and result. But people want to harp on hiccups

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02-07-2013, 10:55 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
It is pathetic for any Habs fan to say 'we lost to a great team, so it's OK.' It's not OK.

Of course we'll lose games. Of course we are not there yet. But we lost this game due to our weakness at center, not because Boston is 10 X better than us.

We are so close to being really good, and Boston exposed our one true weakness. Center. That is what happened tonight.

I care a lot more about losses when I see the Habs close to being a very good team. That is going to be my position this year.

They need to get over the loser hump and find ways to win. They need to do it now.

Stop excusing them, those years are over.
Yeesh, you can ice a lineup with Stamkos, Crosby, Malkin and Giroux down the middle and you'll still lose a game 2-1 sometimes. It happens. Considering our "weak centres" were responsible for some of our best chances in the game, I'm finding your analysis pretty baseless.

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02-07-2013, 10:56 AM
  #359
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
It is pathetic for any Habs fan to say 'we lost to a great team, so it's OK.' It's not OK.

Of course we'll lose games. Of course we are not there yet. But we lost this game due to our weakness at center, not because Boston is 10 X better than us.

We are so close to being really good, and Boston exposed our one true weakness. Center. That is what happened tonight.

I care a lot more about losses when I see the Habs close to being a very good team. That is going to be my position this year.

They need to get over the loser hump and find ways to win. They need to do it now.

Stop excusing them, those years are over.
The whole "weakness at center" thing might make sense if we lost to a team that had Malkin Crosby and J.Staal but losing to a team with Krejci Bergeron Campbell and Spooner is a joke.

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02-07-2013, 10:57 AM
  #360
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True, but he is not a goal scorer. Yes he popped a couple the previous 2 games, but he is not a goal scorer. His weakness at this costs us again and again. It does. It really does.

I was ****ing pissed off at his missed chance tonight. I'm getting really irritated at DD and Eller's lack of ability to score goals consistently.

That was a very important game, and we had chances, but our centers suck really, really bad at scoring goals.

For the thousandth time, we cannot afford to have 3 C who score 45 goals a year between them.

I love DD, but I cannot stand his lack of finish, shooting and scoring. I really really dislike it. It pisses me off, and it makes me want him gone.

I said this summer, if DD does not score this year, he is gone. I stand by that. The Habs will find a center to replace him that can post 20-25 goals.
Well over a full season, he's on pace for 27-goals right now (DD). Pleks on pace for 36-goals.

Missed chances suck, yes. But people around the Habs forum act like it only happens to us. Watch a San Jose game. Marleau could have about 30 goals already, but he's got robbed and missed the net by inches a few times. It's not just us.

As for an important game? Not really. It's 10-games into the season and we have 6 wins. We're doing well. You can't win them all.

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02-07-2013, 10:58 AM
  #361
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I don't think leaning on rookies when you need a goal is good coaching. You try and insulate them as a coach as much as you can. Had they been having a great night I'm sure they play a lot more in the 3rd, but they struggled so they only had a few shifts.
I don't think dismissing assets and not taking appropriate risks is good coaching either. Just like D take chances while trailing late and risk odd man rushes, placing Eller with the kids as soon as they got scored the second goal was an appropriate risk. He did this anyways late in the third.

Two promising rookies with plenty of energy ready to redeem themselves, Eller playing one of his best games of the year, and Carey Price behind the net.. I don't think the risk is extraordinary.

There will ALWAYS be struggles, not solely with rookies, but with vets. It's best to overcome them rather than hide from them.

I'm confident Therrien will take the "No Excuses" to heart for himself, and make adjustments. He did a great job adjusting after the Toronto loss. I wouldn't change the rookie line in the next road game, but definitely needs to consider promoting Eller. He's playing too well to be placed in the fourth.

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02-07-2013, 11:01 AM
  #362
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Centers are held up to mythical standards around here, apparently they are responsible for all that is good or bad. Poor Galchenyuk better hope he's at least a PPG player within two years or the pitchforks will be out for him.


Even Desharnais, who I have been critical about this season, did what he had to.
Yeah. Starting with Beliveau, and moving onto Lemaire, why shouldn't centers be held up to mythical standards here?

And no, DD did not do what he had to do. He blew an easy scoring chance that could have put us first in the east this morning. That is a serious ****up, and I'm sick of them with this team.

As for Gally, he is not part of the conversation yet, which Is why I did not mention him in any posts above. He is 18 years old.

Enjoy the mediocrity at center. I don't, and I don't see why I should.

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02-07-2013, 11:01 AM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
The whole "weakness at center" thing might make sense if we lost to a team that had Malkin Crosby and J.Staal but losing to a team with Krejci Bergeron Campbell and Spooner is a joke.
I hate Bergeron with a passion but to be fair, he's one of the best centers in the game. I tried to deny it for a while but I can't anymore, he might lack high end offensive skill but the absolute intelligence he plays the game with is something special. He's basically Plekanec if Plekanec was better at every area of the game except trolling/playing dirty, I guess that's the other thing impressive about him is how clean he plays the game compared to everyone around him on that team.

On the other hand despite 3 minutes last night that were mostly a product of some great adjustments by Julien, Krejci has a long history of being made his fellow Czech's *****. Plekanec shuts down the Krejci line almost every time we play Boston, but of course mistakes happen/

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02-07-2013, 11:02 AM
  #364
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
It is pathetic for any Habs fan to say 'we lost to a great team, so it's OK.' It's not OK.

Of course we'll lose games. Of course we are not there yet. But we lost this game due to our weakness at center, not because Boston is 10 X better than us.

We are so close to being really good, and Boston exposed our one true weakness. Center. That is what happened tonight.

I care a lot more about losses when I see the Habs close to being a very good team. That is going to be my position this year.

They need to get over the loser hump and find ways to win. They need to do it now.

Stop excusing them, those years are over.
I never said it's okay to lose because a team is good. Center is not our problem. The fact is, we are not an elite team yet, but center is one position that is definitely on the incline. No area of our team is really in the "elite" realm. But this team is working hard together and playing great.

Last night, Boston capitalized on their chances. Montreal definitely did not. There are multiple players who could be blamed last night and they know it. This team has shown nothing but dedication this year and I know they'll want to redeem this loss.

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02-07-2013, 11:02 AM
  #365
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Was a tough game to lose as the boys played so well the first half of the game. I was confident they would put a few past Rask but he played one hell of a game, maybe not splitting with Thomas has helped his confidence much like Price when Halak left.

No shame in losing a game like this, the boys are proving they are a good team and can play with anyone, they weren't intimidated and definitely had more chances to score. Bad bounces, sloppy play in the third, and a hot goalie were the difference last night, it will be telling how they bounce back tonight.

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02-07-2013, 11:04 AM
  #366
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How anybody can bash Desharnais after his game yesterday is just mind-blowing. He was the least of our problems.

Some veterans are non-factors out there, such as Armstrong, Gionta and Cole. THIS, is a way bigger problem.

Oh, and I'm not sure what Moen thinks he is exactly, but he's playing like a celebral player out there. I mean, dude. Your name is Travis Moen. Play a hard-nosed game or something, you know? Kind of embarassing to see him getting rag-dolled by McQuaid and see 5'11 Prust running after him in the 3rd.

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02-07-2013, 11:04 AM
  #367
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The whole "weakness at center" thing might make sense if we lost to a team that had Malkin Crosby and J.Staal but losing to a team with Krejci Bergeron Campbell and Spooner is a joke.
It does make sense. We are weak at center. It has nothing to do with opposing centers. Why do you argue about this?

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02-07-2013, 11:05 AM
  #368
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It does make sense. We are weak at center. It has nothing to do with opposing centers. Why do you argue about this?
I'd guess that's because the bolded is an opinion, not a fact

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02-07-2013, 11:06 AM
  #369
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I'd guess that's because the non-bolded is an opinion, not a fact
edit typo

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02-07-2013, 11:07 AM
  #370
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Here is a new concept that I am pretty sure all our Center haters can agree on.

Don't like DD? Don't like Pleks? Don't Like Eller? Play with no Centers. That is about the only thing that will end this haters debate.

Then again, people will argue just for the sake of arguing, guess we're back to square one.
Listen 458 posts. Stop using the word 'haters'. It's ******* behavior.

I love every player in the CH, and I have for 45 years. And I have every right to comment on our centers.

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02-07-2013, 11:07 AM
  #371
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Yeah. Starting with Beliveau, and moving onto Lemaire, why shouldn't centers be held up to mythical standards here?

And no, DD did not do what he had to do. He blew an easy scoring chance that could have put us first in the east this morning. That is a serious ****up, and I'm sick of them with this team.

As for Gally, he is not part of the conversation yet, which Is why I did not mention him in any posts above. He is 18 years old.

Enjoy the mediocrity at center. I don't, and I don't see why I should.
There will never be another Beliveau. Get over it. Lemaire played with Lafleur and Shutt, as good as Lemaire was, that team was winning with Pete M at center too.

Can we get better? Of course we can. None of our centers are as good as Lemaire, you are right, but none of Boston's are either, not even Bergeron. This is a team game. In a few years hopefully Galchenyuk can be this all powerful center, which is why nobody is panicing right now. Because while you might hate them for not being elite, Plekanec, Desharnais and even Eller are better than anything we have at the wings except for Pacioretty and hopefully in a few years Gallagher. You call Plekanec a "2C" instead of a "1C" and suddenly he's among the best in the league. The problem is 2C's aren't meant to carry below average wingers.

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02-07-2013, 11:10 AM
  #372
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Listen 458 posts. Stop using the word 'haters'. It's ******* behavior.

I love every player in the CH, and I have for 45 years. And I have every right to comment on our centers.
458 posts, been here since 2005 mostly as a lurker. I have every right to speak my opinion, and I as well enjoy all our players too. All this bashing about our centers gets very old and very tiring, and annoys me to the umpteen degree. But thank you for your opinion, I will continue to share mine as I see fit, mr 2009.


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02-07-2013, 11:14 AM
  #373
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It does make sense. We are weak at center. It has nothing to do with opposing centers. Why do you argue about this?
Goes to show you, I think center is actually our BEST position as far as depth is concerned.

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02-07-2013, 11:21 AM
  #374
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Goes to show you, I think center is actually our BEST position as far as depth is concerned.
Well, our defensive depth is pretty good, but only so long as Markov and Subban are both there. The rest are above average role players though.

But center really isn't the problem compared to our winger strength. Looking at just the east, the only teams that have more than one very good C are Pittsburgh, Tampa, arguably Carolina (but Jordan Staal has been as bad offensively as Eller so far this season, with less of an excuse), arguably Washington (I'd say Ribeiro is better than Desharnais, but hardly a game changer). I wouldn't consider the Flyers there, Couturier is not that great yet and Briere is such a liability defensively he's playing the wing half the time. Of these teams, only Pittsburgh and Tampa are very good right now - and Tampa was below average last year and is riding on some unsustainable shooting %s right now.

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02-07-2013, 11:23 AM
  #375
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I'd guess that's because the bolded is an opinion, not a fact
It's been a fact for about 15 years now.

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