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Leafs listening on Kessel?

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Old
02-07-2013, 10:05 AM
  #326
8BostonRocker24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
To be fair to Leaf fans Kessel for B. Ryan is close to fair value. Even after all the terrible offers by Leaf fans in the Luongo thread I will be nice here. Last year when Ryan was on the outs with Anaheim I could see a swap between these 2 players. This year a deal like this probably wouldn't happen because Anaheim is having a great start. But value wise they are close.

I think if Boston was interested a deal could be worked out around Krejci, because they have Bergeron and Seguin for top 6. It would be nice for Toronto to add a quality center and both these players are around the same age/cap hit. Boston would need to add something to Krejci, not sure what exactly, possibly a 1st. Toronto's strength would be at center position with Krejci, Grabovski, Kadri. Boston can play Seguin, Bergeron, Peverly at center and have another offensive weapon on the wing.

Krejci
1st

For

Kessel
Krejci > Kessel in the minds of everyone in Boston and The Stanley Cup Champion Management. The team that built a bottom 5 team into the best in the NHL in 5 years laughs at this.

Kessel has no business in Boston anymore.

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Old
02-07-2013, 10:09 AM
  #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Nonis has been the assistant GM for years..."Kessel isn't Nonis' guy" is a ridiculous statement.
As always, there are some strong opinions here that really is just crap. Ya Nonis has been the assistant GM for years, but Leafs fans better hope that Nonis was more than just a Yes Man to Brian Burke.

I'm not surprised that Nonis would choose to hear offers for Kessel. It should be clear by now that you can't build a team around Kessel. And lets not try to explain this by claiming that a GM isn't doing his job if he isn't listening to offers. If a player is considered the team's franchise player and an untoucheable, his team's GM will not listen to offers for him. You think Shero listens to offers for Crosby? And ya Kessel has done everything that the Kessel trade detractors thought Kessel can do. That is to put up good offensive totals. That was never Kessel's problem. The problem was that Kessel wasn't the type of franchise player you build a team around and the Leafs were years away from contending.

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Old
02-07-2013, 10:11 AM
  #328
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Detroit is a good fit.



Gustav Nyquist
Derren Helm/ Calle Jarnkrok
Peter Mrazaek
1st Rd 13

for



Phil Kessel
Cody Franson

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Last edited by Dark Knight: 02-07-2013 at 10:35 AM.
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Old
02-07-2013, 10:12 AM
  #329
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A lot of people who are posting about Kessel being devalued this year because of his 0 goals..really only look at the stat sheets and nothing else..
He does have 6 assist and is leading the whole NHL in shots...and gets great chances every game and is just getting robbed or hitting post on a lot of those...The kicker here is he is actually playing good defence this season (Being Even on the season while Not scoring a goal should tell you this)
He lost Lupul who he's had great chemistry with and has seen alot of different wingers try and take his place (MacArthur JVR etc..all within the first 10 games of the season) none finding the chemistry yet.

If all you wanna look at is those lets trade him to Nashville for Shea Weber...he signed a huge contract this year..lost his D partner (Suter) and have a big whooping 0 points this year...

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Old
02-07-2013, 10:12 AM
  #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Kessel does not have that value. He's an over paid, underproducing, one dimensional player. He is not going to return a unique (young, cheap, and getting better) player like Kassian.
Kessel is an elite goal scorer, being snake bitten at the beginning of the year doesn't change this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Kassian is 22 years old.

By the time Kessel was 21 he had scored 36 goals already.

We don't want Kassian.
Early production is not something that's typical of a PWF type player. Kassian has the skills to jump in the top 6 right now, plus he brings all of the extra attributes (fighting, intimidation, physicality). Saying "we don't want Kassian" just can't be true. If you meant that "We don't want Kassian as the centrepiece of a Kessel deal." I would argue that Schneider is the centrepiece and Kassian and a pick are in addition to him.

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Old
02-07-2013, 10:15 AM
  #331
Bronze Yohn Royce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EucaLEAFtys View Post
Fixed that for you.

The sane Leaf fans want him gone because they've realized that: a) you can't build a competitive team around him, and b) the team doesn't have the requisite talent level WITH KESSEL ON IT to even come close to competing for a play-off spot any time soon.

Not to mention that it's the best way for the organization to acquire the high-end young talent they so desperately need to actually improve the team's overall talent level.

Kessel's continued presence on the Leafs means continued mediocrity with no future success.. and what sane Leaf fan wants that?

I, for one, certainly don't want to continue to see this team mire itself in a seemingly endless cycle of mediocrity any longer when they have the means to improve themselves staring them in the face. Kessel (and some others) need to be moved NOW if this team is ever going to have success again.

The re-tooling method hasn't worked for this team for the past 40+ years and there's no reason whatsoever for any sane Leaf fan to believe it'll start to work now. It's time to commit to a proper rebuild and moving Kessel should be the first step toward that process.. and a much brighter future as well.
Couldn't agree more.

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Old
02-07-2013, 10:16 AM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovechtrick8 View Post
Carlson + a 1st (unless its a top 3 pick) for Kessel.


Done.
Leafs take this and run.

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Old
02-07-2013, 10:17 AM
  #333
Le Magnifique 66
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The Pens are scouting the Leafs hard, lots of rumors that's it's for Kulemin but I would love to see a huge deal being made. All depend what's going the other way

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02-07-2013, 10:17 AM
  #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Kessel does not have that value. He's an over paid, underproducing, one dimensional player. He is not going to return a unique (young, cheap, and getting better) player like Kassian.


clicked on thread, was not disappointed.

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Old
02-07-2013, 10:17 AM
  #335
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What about Gaborik for Kessel straight up?

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02-07-2013, 10:17 AM
  #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H0MER View Post
Kessel is a proven elite player, won't be traded for 2nd line prospects or late 1st round picks, the return should be equal value of Kessel or he wont be traded.
There comes a time when a player's production to cost ratio lowers his value in trade. Kessel will demand a new contract that pays more than he can return in production to a team. Plus, he is approaching UFA status, and any team trading for him would need to sign him. These two factors combined, make for a diminishing return for Kessel. If he is not traded (and soon) the return will get worse. Eventually, he will not re-sign in Toronto, and then the return is nil.

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02-07-2013, 10:18 AM
  #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerkini View Post
There's only been one proposal originally from a Vancouver fan that was mildy intriguing and it was:

Cory Schneider
Zach Kassian
1st Round Pick

for

Phil Kessel

I've no interest in anyone else from that team.


Mike Richards for Phil Kessel straight up I would do in a heartbeat, but i'm not entirely certain LA would go for it.
Overpayment from Vancouver like crazy.
Leafs would also take this and run.

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Old
02-07-2013, 10:19 AM
  #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
Kessel is an elite goal scorer, being snake bitten at the beginning of the year doesn't change this.



Early production is not something that's typical of a PWF type player. Kassian has the skills to jump in the top 6 right now, plus he brings all of the extra attributes (fighting, intimidation, physicality). Saying "we don't want Kassian" just can't be true. If you meant that "We don't want Kassian as the centrepiece of a Kessel deal." I would argue that Schneider is the centrepiece and Kassian and a pick are in addition to him.
The Canucks and the Leafs just don't make good trading partners.

The Leafs have been burned every time when they have traded for a goalie.

Schneider isn't going to keep up his great play when he goes from one of the best teams in the league to one of the worst.

Reimer has been good for us and he's one of the youngest starting goalies in the league.

Besides, the Canucks don't need Kessel. They have no trouble scoring when they are a healthy team.

Kassian is a good player, but the Leafs have JvR as a big body that puts the puck in the net and he's only a year older and more proven.

People think of Kessel as just a one dimensional scorer but they forget he's an amazing playmaker with great vision.

We can't afford to lose him in a trade with a goalie as the centerpiece unless we're talking about guys like Carey Price, Jonathan Quick, Ryan Miller etc...who wouldn't be traded.

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02-07-2013, 10:20 AM
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theicebox View Post
Tor:
Letang
2nd

Pitt:
Kessel
Kulemin
1st
I think the Leafs are too bad to include their first rounder.

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Old
02-07-2013, 10:22 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by Vsevolod Bobrov View Post
Oh my, a thread where Leafs fans discuss between them what they want for Kessel
Don't you have an offside call to boo?

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Old
02-07-2013, 10:22 AM
  #341
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I think that David Poile would be pretty interested, since he thought he had a deal with Boston in the first place (Jonathan Blum, a 1st and a 2nd). Also made a competitive offer to Parise over the summer, so they're clearly still looking for a sniper.

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02-07-2013, 10:23 AM
  #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theicebox View Post
Tor:
Letang
2nd

Pitt:
Kessel
Kulemin
1st
Doesn't make much sense from the Leafs, at least you would have to take out their 1st from the proposal

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02-07-2013, 10:23 AM
  #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwgatti View Post
What about Gaborik for Kessel straight up?
Why? Gaborik is good value but he doesn't fit the Leafs age group. Besides, Gaborik for Kessel seems a bit of a sideways move for the Rangers. Makes no sense for them either especially considering that the 1st line for NY has been good.

The core, if Kessel is traded becomes:

Kadri
Lupul
JvR
Gardiner
Rielly
Phaneuf ---> I'd assume he's traded too, if Kessel is.
Whatever Kessel returns.

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02-07-2013, 10:23 AM
  #344
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Anyone else find it weird Leafs and Canucks Fans are actually "close" in terms of agreeing on trade value..

Can't really see Gillis turning around and trading Schneider tho..I already think its been 2 much of a fiasco for him to just stick with Luongo for the next 10 years and act like this never happened
Plus I can't see them trading KAssian...they got him for toughness in the playoffs hopefully to play with the Sedins still
Getting rid of him and adding Kessel to play with the Sedins would be great for regular season points but once Playoffs came I think all three of them would get smacked around and disappear

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02-07-2013, 10:27 AM
  #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
I think I would do this if the first were changed to a second. If we retain our first we can hopefully draft well to offset the loss of youth with shipping Kassian off. We have the worst prospect pool in the league, giving up a Jensen/Kassian means that I would really like us to keep our first this year. Could throw in a versatile player like Higgins if necessary. Bolster your bottom 6 and can move up and down the lineup.
Kessel is not worth Schneider and Kassian... if that's what Toronto wants, Van says no and moves on.

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02-07-2013, 10:27 AM
  #346
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I'm not sure why I keep seeing proposals involving the Caps. If they count this season as a lost cause, I don't see them trading any of the pieces mentioned in here, much less more than one of them, for what might be 1 year of Kessel. That might be his value to Leafs fans, but I can't see the Caps being remotely interested at those prices.

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02-07-2013, 10:27 AM
  #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
I think I would do this if the first were changed to a second. If we retain our first we can hopefully draft well to offset the loss of youth with shipping Kassian off. We have the worst prospect pool in the league, giving up a Jensen/Kassian means that I would really like us to keep our first this year. Could throw in a versatile player like Higgins if necessary. Bolster your bottom 6 and can move up and down the lineup.
I don't know if the Leafs would do this even with the 1st in the deal.

Schneider hasn't shown much in the NHL, outside of a handful of great performances, and appears to have lost his starting gig to Lu already this year.

Kassian doesn't project to be a top line talent... debatable if he will ever hit the top 6. I like him as a complementary player though.

Late 1st round pick...

I don't think I do this trade from a TOR point of view... especially if you want that 1st to turn into a 2nd.

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Old
02-07-2013, 10:28 AM
  #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerkini View Post
There's only been one proposal originally from a Vancouver fan that was mildy intriguing and it was:

Cory Schneider
Zach Kassian
1st Round Pick

for

Phil Kessel

I've no interest in anyone else from that team.


Mike Richards for Phil Kessel straight up I would do in a heartbeat, but i'm not entirely certain LA would go for it.
Just to add to this post. If Vancouver did this, even with a 2nd round pick as some Nucks fan suggested. It be an amazing move for Toronto imo.

G - Schneider

D - Rielly, Gardiner, Finn, Blacker, Percy, Franson (hopefully some of them work out)

F - JVR, Kadri, Frattin, Kassian (top six) Biggs, Ross, Colborne, Kulemin (bottom six)

Not a team with much high end talent, but some decent depth core to build from, a 1 st round pick this year with a FWD could help the leafs become legit in 2-3 yrs.

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02-07-2013, 10:30 AM
  #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
Kessel is an elite goal scorer, being snake bitten at the beginning of the year doesn't change this.



Early production is not something that's typical of a PWF type player. Kassian has the skills to jump in the top 6 right now, plus he brings all of the extra attributes (fighting, intimidation, physicality). Saying "we don't want Kassian" just can't be true. If you meant that "We don't want Kassian as the centrepiece of a Kessel deal." I would argue that Schneider is the centrepiece and Kassian and a pick are in addition to him.
Kassian is a very good starting point.

Any leaf fan who says Kassian + Schneider + for Kessel isn't atleast worth the look is crazy.

I still think Schneider will be the guy in Vancouver.

Lu + Kassian + 1st
for
Kessel + Bozak

----

Leafs fans need to realize that this deal would entice some upcoming FAs. If we stay our course, with no direction; why would anyone want to be apart of this fiasco.

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02-07-2013, 10:36 AM
  #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
I would argue that Schneider is the centrepiece and Kassian and a pick are in addition to him.
I would characterize it the same way. And I think that's Corey is a nice centrepiece. While I am obviously on record as vociferously not wanting any part of Luongo, Schneider is a completely different kettle of fish, a young, highly talented goalie who could mature along with a young team. Along with Kassian/Jensen and a first/second round pick, that would be the deal I'd hope the Leafs would take if it were offered (I might try to keep the first in play by adding a Leaf prospect to the pot).

I think other teams are capable of beating that offer, but they would have to give up an elite forward prospect, preferably but not necessarily a centre (someone likely to eventually play on one of the first two lines), and a first round draft choice to do so. Kessel's not only a gifted sniper, he is still a gifted young sniper at 25. A potentially "big" piece needs to be coming back.


Last edited by kihei: 02-07-2013 at 10:41 AM.
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