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Old
02-07-2013, 12:31 AM
  #51
Joey Moss
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No from the Oilers. Dubnyk has been great. The difference between him and Schneider compared to Higgins/Ballard to Hemsky/Fistric is not worth it at all.

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Old
02-07-2013, 12:37 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Not once you had context. Hemsky and Higgins had similar seasons a year ago, except the latter is paid less than half. While Hemsky is better than Higgins in terms of overall skill. His contract is not that appealing.
Maybe you should watch an Oilers game, see how good Hemsky has been all year and get back to us. He was great in the World Championships, he was great in the lockout and now he's been great for the Oilers. Higgins is a borderline 2nd liner without the game breaking abilities Hemsky has. His contract has nothing to do with it, and frankly Hemsky has proven he's worth it. Hemsky > Higgins no debate in this whatsoever.

I also don't understand how you can use that logic on Hemsky and Higgins yet you think Ballard > Fistric. Please, elaborate.

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Old
02-07-2013, 01:24 AM
  #53
Sergei Shirokov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilersfan87 View Post
Why would the oilers do this?
Hemsky>>>Higgins
Fistric>>>Ballard (when you take contract into account)
Dubnyk>Schneider (Dubynk is an average starter while Schneider is an elite backup)
Omg I burst out laughing at this post. Especially this.

This is god awful for the Canucks, wouldn't trade Schneider alone for this package. Nothing here is appealing.

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Old
02-07-2013, 01:43 AM
  #54
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As a fan of both teams but obviously a bit biased I see this as the OP tried to do a deal for a big overall upgrade at G for an up and coming team. Kudos.

The forwards are great in Edmonton but they do need size, that is also something Edmonton lacks on their blueline as well. (They miss Souray for sure) Whitney is a bit soft and their tough guys just dont scare anyone. Even Eager their biggest fellow just went down to our new guy.

So I see why getting a better goaltender is a smart move, It will have the greatest effect for the least amount to give up.

Sadly I believe Ales Hemsky is just not enough for somone like Schneider who has a great pedigree and has been raised in a system and not rushed. Not to mention his VERY affordable contract.

The point Im making is Hemsky just isnt fair value, sooner or later, D side or G spot , Edmonton needs an upgrade and to have any meaningful impact its going to cost one of the big 4. There is no debating this eventuality. Its the same as Van needs to lose a goalie. Time will make this happen for both teams, why not help each other with a good hockey trade.

If not I see Lu or Schneider going for a bonifide 2nd liner and a 3rd center with picks/prospects or roster players going back to even it all out. Its what Van needs after all right?

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Old
02-07-2013, 01:58 AM
  #55
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lol ya right.

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Old
02-07-2013, 02:09 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lime View Post
To Vancouver:

F Ales Hemsky (5.0M thru 13/14)
D Mark Fistric (1.5M thru 12/13)
G Devan Dubnyk (3.5M thru 13/14)

To Edmonton:

F Chris Higgins (1.9M thru 12/13)
D Keith Ballard (4.2M thru 14/15)
G Cory Schneider (4.0M thru 14/15)

Canucks add a key piece to their forward crop in their current Cup chase. Oilers add a long term goaltending stud to backbone their hoard of draft lottery youngstars.
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Old
02-07-2013, 03:14 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
Oilers should see how Dubnyk pans out. He could be solid.

If Edmonton was serious about Schneider, he would cost you Yakupov.

Schneider + Ballard = Yakupov.

Its steep, but its fair value . It could go either way. Yak could end up being a headcase or a superstar. Canucks would be taking that chance
I think you're underestimating the chance that he'd become a headache. I'd pass on Schneider & Ballard for Yakupov. Maybe if they included Petry and a high round pick I'd listen...

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Old
02-07-2013, 09:04 AM
  #58
Lessy
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Canucks pass on this one.

Hemsky>Higgins
Hemsky is the better player for sure and could be a beast in Vancouver but Higgins is no slouch either and is a decent player with versatility.

Fistric>Ballard
This is in terms of trade value where Ballard's contract gives him pretty near negative value. Fistric's value was established as a 3rd rounder and if Vancouver could get out of Ballard's contract and get a 3rd back I believe they would. Ballard is the better player but not at triple the price.

Schneider>>Dubnyk
Oilers get the best player in the deal as Schneider is a significant upgrade over Dubnyk in my books. No point in Vancouver paying Dubnyk 3-4 mill as a backup either.

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Old
02-07-2013, 09:05 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bennett View Post
I think you're underestimating the chance that he'd become a headache. I'd pass on Schneider & Ballard for Yakupov. Maybe if they included Petry and a high round pick I'd listen...
The original proposal is bad for Vancouver but come on. You wouldn't trade your current backup goalie for a first overall pick?

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Old
02-07-2013, 10:14 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilersfan87 View Post
Why would the oilers do this?
Hemsky>>>Higgins
Fistric>>>Ballard (when you take contract into account)
Dubnyk>Schneider (Dubynk is an average starter while Schneider is an elite backup)
As an Oiler fan, please. I would do this in a second.

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Old
02-07-2013, 10:56 AM
  #61
HitmanKiller12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lime View Post
To Vancouver:

F Ales Hemsky (5.0M thru 13/14)
D Mark Fistric (1.5M thru 12/13)
G Devan Dubnyk (3.5M thru 13/14)

To Edmonton:

F Chris Higgins (1.9M thru 12/13)
D Keith Ballard (4.2M thru 14/15)
G Cory Schneider (4.0M thru 14/15)

Canucks add a key piece to their forward crop in their current Cup chase. Oilers add a long term goaltending stud to backbone their hoard of draft lottery youngstars.
Oilers organization is happy with Dubnyk..

Hemsky>> Higgins
Fistric> Ballard
Dubnyk= Schneider

Edmonton gets absolutely bent over in this proposal. I really don't see Edmonton making a deal unless it is for a top pairing defenceman to pair with Justin, a 3rd line center that can play with MPS and Harsky for the next few-several years, or a top 6 power forward.. this deal has none of that..

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Old
02-07-2013, 11:01 AM
  #62
HitmanKiller12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bennett View Post
I think you're underestimating the chance that he'd become a headache. I'd pass on Schneider & Ballard for Yakupov. Maybe if they included Petry and a high round pick I'd listen...
Since when is a #1 overall pick, oilers 2nd best defencemen and another high pick worth a goaltenderwith public controversy (that I believe is not even better then our current starter) and an overpaid 3rd pairing defenceman? Absolutely terrible..

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Old
02-07-2013, 11:07 AM
  #63
palindrom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDDIE LACK View Post


2011-2012

Hemsky

2011-12 Edmonton Oilers NHL 69 10 26 36 43 -13

Higgins

2011-12 Vancouver Canucks NHL 71 18 25 43 16 11

Higgins was playing 2nd/3rd line minutes, white Hemsky was playing 1st/2nd line minutes....

I really don't want to get into MORE stats, because someone will just go along and say "oh... stats don't me everything" which is true. But it's not like Fistric was "positionally sound" either... FWIW Ballard did have more points, better +/- and is outperforming Fistric by lengths this year too...

I'm not gonna even start on Schneider being "an elite back up" IF anything, Dubnyk is an "better than average backup"
what you mean is Hemsky was facing greater opposition?

and by the way, Higging is white too!

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Old
02-07-2013, 11:17 AM
  #64
freakydave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HitmanKiller12 View Post
Oilers organization is happy with Dubnyk..

Hemsky>> Higgins
Fistric> Ballard
Dubnyk= Schneider

Edmonton gets absolutely bent over in this proposal. I really don't see Edmonton making a deal unless it is for a top pairing defenceman to pair with Justin, a 3rd line center that can play with MPS and Harsky for the next few-several years, or a top 6 power forward.. this deal has none of that..
LOL edm gets bent over in this trade---Edm receives the two best players in the trade &
Higgins will also be a great role player on that team.It's the Canucks that balk at this offer.It is pretty fair value wise but it only makes one team better & that's EDM.

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Old
02-07-2013, 11:31 AM
  #65
LPH
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Hemsky>Higgins
Fistric<Ballard
Dubyk<Schneider

no thanks, but it's not as bad as some are making it out to be

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Old
02-07-2013, 11:34 AM
  #66
HitmanKiller12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freakydave View Post
LOL edm gets bent over in this trade---Edm receives the two best players in the trade &
Higgins will also be a great role player on that team.It's the Canucks that balk at this offer.It is pretty fair value wise but it only makes one team better & that's EDM.
Are you serious? Haha the way dubnyk is playing makes him just as valuable as Schneider.. Also the way hemsky is playing makes him close to as valuable as that whole package.. hemsky all year has been the best player on the ice for either team. He controls the game better then anyone on the oilers and that is saying something! HF really needs to stop undervaluing hemsky.

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Old
02-07-2013, 11:42 AM
  #67
Lessy
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Why do people keep putting Ballard>Fistric? It's like saying Horcoff>Schroeder. Ballard and Horcoff are the better players but when you consider their contracts the other guys have more trade value aka not negative.

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Old
02-07-2013, 11:43 AM
  #68
ddawg1950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HitmanKiller12 View Post
Are you serious? Haha the way dubnyk is playing makes him just as valuable as Schneider.. Also the way hemsky is playing makes him close to as valuable as that whole package.. hemsky all year has been the best player on the ice for either team. He controls the game better then anyone on the oilers and that is saying something! HF really needs to stop undervaluing hemsky.
Not sure it is possible to undervalue an injury prone, skill player who has never once been a PPG player in the NHL, never once scored 25 goals in a season and never once played an entire 82 game schedule.

HF valuates him at a very modest level for a reason.

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Old
02-07-2013, 11:49 AM
  #69
Bourne Endeavor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
Maybe you should watch an Oilers game, see how good Hemsky has been all year and get back to us. He was great in the World Championships, he was great in the lockout and now he's been great for the Oilers. Higgins is a borderline 2nd liner without the game breaking abilities Hemsky has. His contract has nothing to do with it, and frankly Hemsky has proven he's worth it. Hemsky > Higgins no debate in this whatsoever.

I also don't understand how you can use that logic on Hemsky and Higgins yet you think Ballard > Fistric. Please, elaborate.
I have and acknowledge is the superior player but as was previously mentioned both Higgins and Hemsky put up similar numbers last season. To us, Higgins has comparable value for that reason. Hemsky is not enough of an upgrade to warrant Schneider.

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Old
02-07-2013, 11:50 AM
  #70
HitmanKiller12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freakydave View Post
LOL edm gets bent over in this trade---Edm receives the two best players in the trade &
Higgins will also be a great role player on that team.It's the Canucks that balk at this offer.It is pretty fair value wise but it only makes one team better & that's EDM.
Are you serious? Haha the way dubnyk is playing makes him just as valuable as Schneider.. Also the way hemsky is playing makes him close to as valuable as that whole package.. hemsky all year has been the best player on the ice for either team. He controls the game better then anyone on the oilers and that is saying something! HF really needs to stop undervaluing hemsky.

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Old
02-07-2013, 11:56 AM
  #71
Mr Forever
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Higgins is nothing, Ballard is horrible and Schneider hasn't proved anything. How is this good for the Oilers?

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Old
02-07-2013, 12:31 PM
  #72
Johnsie19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilersfan87 View Post
Why would the oilers do this?
Hemsky>>>Higgins
Fistric>>>Ballard (when you take contract into account)
Dubnyk>Schneider (Dubynk is an average starter while Schneider is an elite backup)
Boy am I glad your not interested here. Let move on poor offer. From a Van perspective we don't really want any of those players barring Hemsky but in all reality we aren't going to give up much for him (not that he's not a good player). Oh ya and Schneider isn't being moved unless Lu backstops us to a cup this year.

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Old
02-07-2013, 12:34 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
Higgins is nothing, Ballard is horrible and Schneider hasn't proved anything. How is this good for the Oilers?
HIggins is very valuable player. Great on the 3rd line, kills penalties, amazing work ethic and can even play 2nd line in a pinch. Ballard has been great this year. Him and Tanev make up one of the best 5-6 pairings in the league. He would definitly help the Oilers because of his skating ability. And no I don't want to make this trade either but just sticking up for two players we value in Vancouver.

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Old
02-07-2013, 12:50 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Lessy View Post
Why do people keep putting Ballard>Fistric? It's like saying Horcoff>Schroeder. Ballard and Horcoff are the better players but when you consider their contracts the other guys have more trade value aka not negative.
You don't think there's a team out there that would give a 3rd round pick for Ballard?

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Old
02-07-2013, 12:57 PM
  #75
arsmaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lessy View Post
Why do people keep putting Ballard>Fistric? It's like saying Horcoff>Schroeder. Ballard and Horcoff are the better players but when you consider their contracts the other guys have more trade value aka not negative.
HFboards has this crazy idea that worse players on decent contracts are better than good players that are slightly overpaid.

Ballard is a much better NHL hockey player than Fistric and he can actually make contact with the players he is attempting to hip-check

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