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Is attendance down?

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02-07-2013, 01:14 AM
  #1
haseoke39
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Is attendance down?

In re: lockout. Simple question, sorry if the answer is buried somewhere.

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02-07-2013, 01:21 AM
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danishh
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using espn numbers (which i believe are automatically generated from NHL boxscores)

2011-12: 1260 games, 21.4M total, 17455 per game
2012-13: 140 games, 2.47M total, 17654 per game

and that's with the rangers losing about 1000 per game in capacity (if NY still had those seats, it would be 17690)

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02-07-2013, 08:00 AM
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No it's up by a lot actually.

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02-07-2013, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
using espn numbers (which i believe are automatically generated from NHL boxscores)

2011-12: 1260 games, 21.4M total, 17455 per game
2012-13: 140 games, 2.47M total, 17654 per game

and that's with the rangers losing about 1000 per game in capacity (if NY still had those seats, it would be 17690)
Keep in mind though that the Sabres gained about 500 seats in official capacity, and they have sold out every game thus far. (For some reason ESPN still seems to have last year's official capacity for the Sabres, which is why they are listed at >100%).

So the net effect between the Sabres and Rangers together is only about -500 seats.

Of course, for a full analysis, you need to look at all the teams in the league and sum up all the changes in capacity this past offseason.

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02-07-2013, 09:16 AM
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Colin226
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Devils have sold out their first 4 (16 straight counting last year).. Probably wont sellout tonight, but Saturday is already sold out

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02-07-2013, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MayDay View Post
Keep in mind though that the Sabres gained about 500 seats in official capacity, and they have sold out every game thus far. (For some reason ESPN still seems to have last year's official capacity for the Sabres, which is why they are listed at >100%).

So the net effect between the Sabres and Rangers together is only about -500 seats.

Of course, for a full analysis, you need to look at all the teams in the league and sum up all the changes in capacity this past offseason.
Buffalo actually hasn't sold out every game this season and I believe it is mostly due to the new CBA rules which force you to hold a certain amount of tickets and then put them on sale closer to game time. I think everyone believes the games are all sold out but there are still tickets available for every game because of this. Ted Black talked about this on the radio this morning. As we speak, there are still plenty of tickets available and the Habs are in town..this is unheard of usually.

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02-07-2013, 10:26 AM
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Since attendance in certain markets are traditionally lower in the early part of the season, a better comparison would be January last season to January this season.

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02-07-2013, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Fordy View Post
No it's up by a lot actually.
It's beginning to seem that after-lockout attendance is telling us that many fans would prefer there to be less hockey,... less hockey and they'll attend a greater % of the games. Perhaps 82-game Seasons really are too much hockey saturation.

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02-07-2013, 11:57 AM
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Vamos Rafa
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Is MSG's reduced capacity temporary?

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02-07-2013, 12:33 PM
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Yes, will go back up next season after they complete the final phase of renovations.

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02-07-2013, 12:36 PM
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Wings have announced all sell outs so far, so no increase, but no loss as far tickets sold.

Haven't seen yet if there's a lot of discounting going on, or if the STH base has remained stable.

Their STH base was roughly 60% corporate ticket holders.

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02-07-2013, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Wings have announced all sell outs so far, so no increase, but no loss as far tickets sold.
Well, theres at least 2 potential Amway IBO's seats
that wont be filled on occasion at The Joe huh Foogs?

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02-07-2013, 01:12 PM
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Fugu
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Well, theres at least 2 potential Amway IBO's seats
that wont be filled on occasion at The Joe huh Foogs?

You just had to bring up [Sc]Amway, dintcha?

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02-07-2013, 01:32 PM
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You just had to bring up [Sc]Amway, dintcha?
Yepp. With over 24% of the workforce having left Detroit over the past decade, how an organization like the iconic Red Wings could permit a predatory company to just waltz in as their "Presenting Sponsor" is just beyond morally repugnant, creatively & visually offensive; appalling. When your greatest player of all time & his lovely wife Colleen Howe got rope a doped in as Ambassadors, garage & basement jam packed with cleaning & personal care products that they couldnt give away, wound up having to sue several Amway IBO's in order to quell rumours of Devil Worship, well, I dont believe Mr. Ilitch is deserving of your patronage. Time to switch teams.... and on behalf of the Toronto Maple Leafs, your more than welcome. Empty seat right next to mine (last guy committed suicide Im afraid, no staying power), and I'm buyin.

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02-07-2013, 01:49 PM
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Good to see it's gone up. I know there was worry out there that attendance would go down in the U.S. after the lockout ended.

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02-07-2013, 01:56 PM
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The year's not over yet, and we're just starting to see a little dip in the weaker markets.

Also when taking into account the non-tarped capacity in Florida, they're at about 85%. Not amazing, but they're on the right track.

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02-07-2013, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Yepp. With over 24% of the workforce having left Detroit over the past decade, how an organization like the iconic Red Wings could permit a predatory company to just waltz in as their "Presenting Sponsor" is just beyond morally repugnant, creatively & visually offensive; appalling. When your greatest player of all time & his lovely wife Colleen Howe got rope a doped in as Ambassadors, garage & basement jam packed with cleaning & personal care products that they couldnt give away, wound up having to sue several Amway IBO's in order to quell rumours of Devil Worship, well, I dont believe Mr. Ilitch is deserving of your patronage. Time to switch teams.... and on behalf of the Toronto Maple Leafs, your more than welcome. Empty seat right next to mine (last guy committed suicide Im afraid, no staying power), and I'm buyin.
Given our location, we should be Canucks fans.

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02-07-2013, 02:33 PM
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seeing tons of empty seats on games on centre ice

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02-07-2013, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
seeing tons of empty seats on games on centre ice

That's pretty subjective, CN. As far as ticket sales, if teams are selling out, they're at least getting the money for the seats. It would be nice to get actual attendance and avg price per seat to really gauge what's going on. Nevertheless, selling all your seats in the first place even if people don't show up is better than not selling the seats at all-- where, of course, no one will show up.

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02-07-2013, 03:05 PM
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Given our location, we should be Canucks fans.
You could, and cheer for local Michigan boy Ryan Kesler of Livonia. Hell of a player. Mind you, take some getting used to Gillis's New Age Philosophies. This season rolling something out called The Human Performance Project.... whatever that means. Allan Parsons meets Wyndham Hill Records perhaps? Talk about your Astral Travellers.

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02-07-2013, 03:38 PM
  #21
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Remember when some folks were prognosticating the impeding doom of the NHL thanks to the lockout and how fans wouldn't come back?

Whatever happened to those people?

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02-07-2013, 06:40 PM
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Given our location, we should be Canucks fans.
And yet...

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02-07-2013, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
It's beginning to seem that after-lockout attendance is telling us that many fans would prefer there to be less hockey,... less hockey and they'll attend a greater % of the games. Perhaps 82-game Seasons really are too much hockey saturation.
Count me as one of them. About 60 regular season games would be great, with a mid-Nov. start and ending in mid-March.

Never happen though. Not enough revenue for owners, not enough pay for players. Fans just don't matter that much.

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02-07-2013, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
That's pretty subjective, CN. As far as ticket sales, if teams are selling out, they're at least getting the money for the seats. It would be nice to get actual attendance and avg price per seat to really gauge what's going on. Nevertheless, selling all your seats in the first place even if people don't show up is better than not selling the seats at all-- where, of course, no one will show up.
Its not subjective at all. Its an observation from actually watching games from all markets. Certain teams who shall remain nameless have blocks of empty seats, and this is early in the season.

Its a short term fix. Usually empty seats are bought by companies looking to give away tickets to employees or customers. If neither wants to go, then you likely wont buy as many tickets or any, the next season.

And as you mentioned, $ from the gate is the best judge, and there's a reason we never see those figures from certain markets. If we did we would all stop debating that certain franchises are screwed.

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02-08-2013, 12:52 AM
  #25
danishh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Its not subjective at all. Its an observation from actually watching games from all markets. Certain teams who shall remain nameless have blocks of empty seats, and this is early in the season.

Its a short term fix. Usually empty seats are bought by companies looking to give away tickets to employees or customers. If neither wants to go, then you likely wont buy as many tickets or any, the next season.

And as you mentioned, $ from the gate is the best judge, and there's a reason we never see those figures from certain markets. If we did we would all stop debating that certain franchises are screwed.
Of course gate $ would be ideal and objective, but watching games and judging the audience you see on TV is the definition of subjective. You could watch a florida sellout and conclude that there were 10,000 people there based on their current setup. Same goes for a number of other markets where camera positions focus on prime seats that are sold but not attended. To the NHL, and any reasonable BoH commenter, empty seats mean nothing, it's paid seats that matter, and there's no way you can figure that out by simply watching the game.

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