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Old
02-07-2013, 01:34 PM
  #1
Scheifele55
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Worst Jets GM

Since my other threat about Iain Duncan turned into a discussion about GM's I am moving the topic here.

There are only 4 options:

John Furguson
Mike SMith
John Paddock
Kevin Cheveldayoff

Cheveldayoff shouldn`t be considered as he has been around for 2 years and John Paddock was only GM for 2 years.

So it is pretty straight forward... John Ferguson or Mike Smith

Ferguson - The Good
- Drafted 2 HOFers, 1 currently and 1 future in Hawerchuk and Selanne.
-Drafted NHL mainstays who played over 1000 games:
Selanne
Hawerchuk
Numminen
Olausson
Ellett
Babych
Christian
and Mullen and Steen who had very good careers.
Draft wise his best selection is Teemu Selanne who was taken 10th overall. He was fired 3 months later. Brian Mullen was a very late draft choice who had a very good NHL career. We discovered our first all-star calibre goalie in Bob Essensa who I felt was a much better goaltender than his stats show. If Bob Murdoch had a brain we would have beat the Oilers in 1990 by playing Essensa.

The Bad:
- 1979 took Jimmy Mann a potential powerforward who held the Jets record for PIM in his rookie year. Michel Goulet went next
- 1979 2nd roudner Dave Christian who had a VERY bright future in Winnipeg was traded for a 1st round selection 14th overall, not a great trade, however, the Jets took Bobby Dollas who bounced around for many years.
- 1980 took Dave Babych who was a good-very good defenseman and was traded for Ray Neufeld who busted in Winnipeg. Player taken after Babych... Denis Savard
- 1980 even though Ferguson earns points for discovering Brian Mullen who loses all that momentum and then some by dealing an almost point a game forward along with a 10th rounder for a 3rd and 5th rounder. Couldn`t you do better, he was 24 and entering his PRIME.
- 1981, probably his best draft on paper by landing Hawerchuk who was given a hero's press conference when he signed, Scott Arneil whos career was going well until we dealt a 24 year old Arneil for an older Gilles Hamel who had the same offensive skills. And the mystery pick was Marc Behrend who in 1981 and 83 was the NCAA Tournament MVP being hte 1st person to ever have that distinction.
- 1982 took Jim Kyte who never developed into a solid tough defenseman
- 1983 took Andrew McBain at 8 and Bobby Dollas at 14 and both had mediocre careers in my opinion.
- 1984 traded our 1st round pick for a 27-28 year old randy carlyle. His best years were behind him and although he was good, Doug Bodger who Pittsburgh took with the pick ended up having a better career after being drafted compared to Carlyle. No one from this draft really panned out into anything good. Luciano Borsato, Peter Douris who we took 2nd round and moved him for a 4th and 10th round pick as a 22 year old and Brent Severyn are the best of the draft... hardly something to brag about.
-1985 took Ryan Stewart who was very undersized and played 3 NHL games and Roger Ohman who didnt make it were taken in the 1st 2 rounds. The highlights from this draft was taking Olausson and drafting 2 goalies who made it to the NHL, Berthiaume and Tom Draper.
- 1986 Pat Elyniuk was taken 8th overall. Had a good career, but not even close to the career of the player taken 9th... Brian Leetch. Made ammends by taking Teppo. The rest had no NHL career or just a taste.
- 1987 you cant fault Ferguson for DRAFT Bryan Marchment who was a nasty defenseman... unfortuantely true to John Ferguson form he gave up on him at the age of 21 and dealt him away for an aging Troy Murray who played 1.5 years with us and then dealt for Steve Bancroft who was a 2nd round pick and didnt play a game wit the Jets.
- 1988 after Teemu Selanne the rest of the draft history was weak at best. Russ Romaniuk whos sister lives next door to me and Stephane Beauregard (should have moved him while he stock was at a peak) were the only players who made it past 2 NHL games.

Mike Smith's Good:
- 1989 Drafted a skilled Stu Barnes, Kris Draper who was taken int he 4th round, Dan Bylsma, and future Jets Davydov and Kharin.
- 1990 traded Dale Hawerchuk by far the best player in the teams history up until then and acquired Phil Housely who was the best offensive defenseman in Jets history and somehow moved down in the draft and still got Keith Tkachuk. Possibly the best trade in Jets history when all is said and done. On top of that he took Alexei Zhamnov who was the 2nd piece along with Tkachuk and Selanne to give the fans huge promise for a strong young team.
- 1992 drafted Nikolai Khabibulin in the 9th round and selected a promising Boris Mironov in the 2nd round.
- Best known for his drafting of Europeans, some panned out and most didnt amount to much. For his time in Winnipeg I wouldn`t say it ws a negative but a positive. We did get Khabibulin and Zhamnov who were great players

The Bad:
- 1989 took Stu Barnes who they traded away for an aging Randy Gilhen. Stu Barnes had a great career afterwards. Traded Kris Draper in one of the worst trades in NHL HISTORY for $1.
- 1992 took Sergei Bautin in the most embarassing moment for the Jets as the guy muffled the announcement and TSN thought we took Sergei Brylin... if only we really did. He was 24-25 at the time and easily could have been taken in the 12th round in the 1991 draft. Took in the 2nd round Boris Mironov who was a plus while we had him, but Winnipeg bet the farm and moved him, Mats Lindgren our 1st pick in 1993 and our 1st round pick in 1994 (4th overall) for an aging Dave Manson. Manson was an allstar in his prime and in Winnipeg was a good player but I dont recall him being intimidating like he once was. In the grand scheme of developing a Stanley Cup team... Mironov/Lindgren/Smyth (okay Edmonton took Bonsignore at 4 and Smyth at 5) would have been a better compliment with Housley/Tkachuk/Zhamnov/Selanne than Manson. Hindsight is 20/20 but Winnipeg went all in on this and lost.
- Mike Smith as its been told ran Phil Housley out of town after scoring 97 points a franchise record that probably will never be eclipsed anytime soon. The return in Quintal and Emerson was good in that Quintal did have potential he never reached and Emerson was a good scorer, however Housley was the much better player.


I probably missed out on some positives on Mike Smith and some negatives however this is what stands out and I remember about him.

What is your take. Please keep it ON TOPIC in regards to their performance as a GM for the Winnipeg Jets, not other teams.

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02-07-2013, 01:39 PM
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Trading Selanne. He should have left with the team!

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02-07-2013, 01:42 PM
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Scheifele55
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Paddock traded Selanne, and that was out of his hands.

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02-07-2013, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Burmistrov08 View Post
Paddock traded Selanne, and that was out of his hands.
Oh...well then...

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02-07-2013, 02:03 PM
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Smith. NO contest. Shady draft record ie. Sergei Bautin. Traded Draper for a loonie. Barnes for peanuts. Bad definitely outweighed the good.

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02-07-2013, 02:09 PM
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For me it's Smith and not even close.

The draft mistakes can be said about every GM and scouting staff in history if you look at all the potential picks could have been. And I think some of Furguson's mistakes might have actually been the consensus picks at the time (Babych, possibly Elyniuk as well?).

Plus, the main factor in Ferguson's favor is that he put together the best Jets teams in the history of the Jets 1.0. The 84-85 Jets were the 4th best team in the league and would have had a much better playoff fate had we not had to play the old "divisional" way and run into Calgary and then Edmonton.

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02-07-2013, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
Smith. NO contest. Shady draft record ie. Sergei Bautin. Traded Draper for a loonie. Barnes for peanuts. Bad definitely outweighed the good.
All this times ten.

Smith DECIMATED the team's prospect pool by drafting almost exclusively Russians who amounted to jack squat (with the exception of Zhamnov). Paddock was a C- GM, but he got dealt a terrible hand from Smith. The cupboard was bare.

Fergie was an interesting case: a really old school GM. He had a terrific eye for talent, and drafted well on the whole... he was responsible for the Sens picking Alfredsson in the late rounds, too.

His real weakness was that he was impatient. He'd make trades 3 or 4 times a year just to shake up the team when they went into a slump, and he gave up on some young guys too quickly.

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02-07-2013, 02:16 PM
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Despite Ulanovs name soemtimes coming up to disparage Smith, I'd put him up there as one of the best draft picks done under Smith. Got him in the 10th round and he ended up playing in over 750 NHL games.

But yeah I'd put Smith as the worst with Paddock second.

Even if Paddock was required to move one of Tkachuck or Selanne. He picked the wrong one to move, and got far too little in return. Although at the time I was happy in that Selanne would never play for the evil Coyotes.

Smith had the worst draft pick in Jets history. Paddock made the worst trade.

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02-07-2013, 02:33 PM
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Scheifele55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
Despite Ulanovs name soemtimes coming up to disparage Smith, I'd put him up there as one of the best draft picks done under Smith. Got him in the 10th round and he ended up playing in over 750 NHL games.

But yeah I'd put Smith as the worst with Paddock second.

Even if Paddock was required to move one of Tkachuck or Selanne. He picked the wrong one to move, and got far too little in return. Although at the time I was happy in that Selanne would never play for the evil Coyotes.

Smith had the worst draft pick in Jets history. Paddock made the worst trade.
Ryan Stewart was a worse draft choice than Sergei Bautin. Stewart played 3 NHL games 56 AHL games scoring 1 goal in the NHL and 6 in the AHL. Sergei Bautin scored 5 as a rookie. So who were you referring to as making the worst draft pick?

As for worst trade we dealt Selanne for the 2nd overall pick in Tverdovsky and Kilger the 4th overall pick. Winnipeg had to make a move and Selanne after his rookie year was just a bit over a point a game for the next 2 years and then scored 70 in 50 games before being dealt. This deal was bad in hindsight however the return was quite a bit at the time. Even if hypothetically we acquire the 1st round pick of theres in 1996-1999 we still only have Salei/Holmqvist/Vishnovsky and Leopold. So thats 6 1st rounders who in hindsight still make the deal look bad based on future performance. Even if we hose them and get 2000 we end up with a Alexei Smirnov who played 50+ games in the NHL then in 2001 5th overall was Stanislav Chistov another bust. So we could have gotten 8 years of 1st round picks from Anaheim and STILL the deal is lopsided towards them.

The worst trade in Jets history though was Kris Draper for $1 in a hindsight perspective.

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02-07-2013, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebez View Post
All this times ten.

Smith DECIMATED the team's prospect pool by drafting almost exclusively Russians who amounted to jack squat (with the exception of Zhamnov). Paddock was a C- GM, but he got dealt a terrible hand from Smith. The cupboard was bare.

Fergie was an interesting case: a really old school GM. He had a terrific eye for talent, and drafted well on the whole... he was responsible for the Sens picking Alfredsson in the late rounds, too.
I am not sure how you can say all of this... Smith was the one who drafted Tkachuk/Zhamnov/Khabibulin who were the core of our team from a prospect standpoint.

He made better draft choices overall than Ferguson and the player selected after the Jets didnt have the careers as the player selected after Ferguson did.

And please explain to me the eye for talent that Ferguson had with the Jets?

Hawerchuk was the consensus #1 pick so he is automatically eliminated.

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02-07-2013, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burmistrov08 View Post
Ryan Stewart was a worse draft choice than Sergei Bautin. Stewart played 3 NHL games 56 AHL games scoring 1 goal in the NHL and 6 in the AHL. Sergei Bautin scored 5 as a rookie. So who were you referring to as making the worst draft pick?

As for worst trade we dealt Selanne for the 2nd overall pick in Tverdovsky and Kilger the 4th overall pick. Winnipeg had to make a move and Selanne after his rookie year was just a bit over a point a game for the next 2 years and then scored 70 in 50 games before being dealt. This deal was bad in hindsight however the return was quite a bit at the time. Even if hypothetically we acquire the 1st round pick of theres in 1996-1999 we still only have Salei/Holmqvist/Vishnovsky and Leopold. So thats 6 1st rounders who in hindsight still make the deal look bad based on future performance. Even if we hose them and get 2000 we end up with a Alexei Smirnov who played 50+ games in the NHL then in 2001 5th overall was Stanislav Chistov another bust. So we could have gotten 8 years of 1st round picks from Anaheim and STILL the deal is lopsided towards them.

The worst trade in Jets history though was Kris Draper for $1 in a hindsight perspective.
Bautin was a bad pick because he was picked 17th overall when he would have been available in the 10th round. It was a complete waste of a pick. Just cause a player doesn't pan out doesn't mean he is a bad pick. I'm too young to know who Ryan Stewart is but he was ranked 12th overall by central scouting.

How can you claim pciking a guy ranked 12th overall at 18th is a worse pick than picking a guy no one has ever heard of at 17th

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02-07-2013, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burmistrov08 View Post
I am not sure how you can say all of this... Smith was the one who drafted Tkachuk/Zhamnov/Khabibulin who were the core of our team from a prospect standpoint.

He made better draft choices overall than Ferguson and the player selected after the Jets didnt have the careers as the player selected after Ferguson did.

And please explain to me the eye for talent that Ferguson had with the Jets?

Hawerchuk was the consensus #1 pick so he is automatically eliminated.
So was Daigle yet he didn't pan out. Using your logic on Stewart it would have been a bad pick. How can a consenus pick turning out not garner any credit but a consensus pick not panning out be a bad pick?

So ferggie screwed up taking stewart who was ranked 12th overall at 18th, but he gets no credit for taking Hawerchuck cause he was the consensus?

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02-07-2013, 02:49 PM
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They both were bad picks for different reasons. Performance wise Stewart never bulked up and was just a lanky 6'1 175lb forward who never developed. Bautin was a wasted pick in that he could have been taken the year before in the last round and his shelf life was worse, however he did play for the Jets and was piece in the acquisition of a good Dallas Drake.

I can see your point.

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02-07-2013, 03:01 PM
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Smith hands down, not sure the guy even liked hockey, but then again he came cheap which was the most important attribute for the Jets at that time.

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02-07-2013, 03:13 PM
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Chevey "the dictator" will be no. 1 before his reign of terror is over.

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02-07-2013, 03:19 PM
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Chevey "the dictator" will be no. 1 before his reign of terror is over.
If they continually mine some quality NHL players outside of the 1st two rounds (Lowry, Kosmachuk, Olsen, Yuen) then I'd have to agree. So long as they don't flub on any 1st rounders.

He's also going to have to make an impact trade or two along the way.

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02-07-2013, 03:23 PM
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Mike Smith hands down. With Fergurson we had some good teams in the 80s we just happened to be in the best division in hockey with 1 of the greatest teams of all time

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02-07-2013, 04:40 PM
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Chevey "the dictator" will be no. 1 before his reign of terror is over.
riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

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02-07-2013, 05:35 PM
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By all accounts, I think the Selanne trade shouldn't even be considered.

The future Phoenix Coyotes traded Selanne - not the Winnipeg Jets.

It was clearly out of Paddock's hands.

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02-07-2013, 07:53 PM
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Chevey "the dictator" will be no. 1 before his reign of terror is over.
Don't be overly dramatic. Sooner or later those waiver wire scrubs will give us 9 bonafide top 6 players.

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02-07-2013, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
Smith. NO contest. Shady draft record ie. Sergei Bautin. Traded Draper for a loonie. Barnes for peanuts. Bad definitely outweighed the good.
Do you think those Draper and Barnes deals weren't economically forced on him by Shenkarow?

C'Mon now.

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02-07-2013, 11:34 PM
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Do you think those Draper and Barnes deals weren't economically forced on him by Shenkarow?

C'Mon now.
You c'mon now.

There's no reason to believe he forced those deals on Smith. You're actually going to try to convince me he told Smith to trade Draper for a buck? Draper had barely played any games for the Jets before Smith gave up on him, not to mention he was paid #### all so cost considerations wouldn't have played a role. Same with Stu - made very little money and was hardly given a chance with the organization. Fact is, Smith showed very little patience with his picks and really had no long-term build strategy for the JEts.

Another bad trade was the Hawerchuk trade. I remember following this closely as a kid. Smith had ample opportunity to trade him for some legit front line talent like Rod Brind'amour or Tony Amonte. Instead he ended up trading him for Phil Housley, Scott Arniel and Jeff Parker. Value-wise it was reasonable, but it was very poor asset management on Smith's part as it failed to address the Jets' needs on offense. The Jets already had three offensive defensmen in Olausson, Ellett and Numminen (Numminen being a good two-way defenseman and Ellett to a lesser degree). Sure enough, after a poor start to the season, in part because of the Jets ****-poor offense, the JEts ended up trading one of the Fab Four, Dave Ellett, along with the previous season's team leading goal-scorer, Paul Fenton, for Eddie Olczyk and Mark Osborne. Too little, too late as the Jets continued to struggle to score goals and ended up out of the playoffs. A difficult feat considering 16 of 21 teams made the playoffs.

Smith's record speaks for itself. Promoted to GM in 1988, his teams only made the playoffs 3 of 6 seasons. Contrast that with Ferguson whose teams made the playoffs 7 out of 9 times. All the more impressive when you consider he has to start from scratch as an expansion team after the NHL thought it was reasonable to completely pillage the Jets' WHA roster; and he had to contend with the likes of the Oilers and Flames in the same division for most of the Jets' early existence. Smith on the other hand, was left with a half-decent core featuring the likes of Dale Hawerchuk, Brent Ashton, Andrew McBain, Randy Carlyle, Dave Ellett, Thomas Steen, Laurie Boschman, Doug Smail, not to mention blue chippers, Selanne and Elyniuk. All that talent, and he was still incapable of icing a team that could contend for the playoffs on a consistent basis.

Smith's horrible record as GM in Chicago, based on that team's poor win-loss record and his terrible draft picks all but solidifies him as one of the worst GMs in NHL history. I don't think anyone can dispute this.


Last edited by blueandgoldguy: 02-07-2013 at 11:37 PM. Reason: grammar
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02-07-2013, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
Smith's horrible record as GM in Chicago, based on that team's poor win-loss record and his terrible draft picks all but solidifies him as one of the worst GMs in NHL history. I don't think anyone can dispute this.
Well, i certainly won't dispute it. He was just plain awful.

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02-07-2013, 11:49 PM
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Though, Mike Milbury will give him a run for 'worst GM in NHL history'. Smith was definitely the worst GM in Jets history, imo.

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02-08-2013, 12:18 AM
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Paddock didn't have a choice between Selanne or Tkachuk. New owners wanted to keep Tkachuk because he was American.

The fact the new owners wanted to purge salary even before they moved signaled future failure.

Mike Smith was the worst by far. Furgie though didn't have the issue of out of control salary's so trading away developing players with a bright future was a bad building model. No playoff success can be blamed on facing the greatest dynasty team ever in pro sports each playoff year.

Mike Smith didn't chase off Phil Housley. Canadian income tax did (it was before all salary's were paid in usd).

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