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Old
02-07-2013, 01:00 PM
  #76
Winroba
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canucks say no

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Old
02-07-2013, 01:24 PM
  #77
freakydave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
HFboards has this crazy idea that worse players on decent contracts are better than good players that are slightly overpaid.

Ballard is a much better NHL hockey player than Fistric and he can actually make contact with the players he is attempting to hip-check
I've noticed the tendancy to downgrade a player because of their contract.
In this case Ballard actually improves their team he could play in their top 4.
Edm fans that wouldn't take this deal & run are nuts

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Old
02-07-2013, 02:01 PM
  #78
RespectYourEdlers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilersfan87 View Post
Why would the oilers do this?
Hemsky>>>Higgins
Fistric>>>Ballard (when you take contract into account)
Dubnyk>Schneider (Dubynk is an average starter while Schneider is an elite backup)
You don't know anything about Hockey.

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Old
02-07-2013, 02:02 PM
  #79
CanuckCity
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This has got to be the worst responses as a whole from Edmonton fans i've ever seen. For the rest of your fan base's sake i hope this thread gets buried and deleted faast. I usually try to avoid posting but after reading the 1st page i couldn't resist. Hate to label a teams fan base off of several posters...but this was just absolutely embarrassing. Thank god you aren't ever going anywhere near your team other than in the stands.

I'm speaking out of generalization here i know some of the edm posters weren't as delusional as the rest.

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Old
02-07-2013, 02:10 PM
  #80
alpine4life
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
If Edmonton was serious about Schneider, he would cost you Yakupov.

Schneider + Ballard = Yakupov.
Oh boy... really? I would kind of agree that Schneider has a bit more value than Dubnik, but to say that he would fetch Yakupov is pure insanity. (He would most likely get the same return as Varlamov)

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Old
02-07-2013, 02:11 PM
  #81
a pony
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpine4life View Post
Oh boy... really? I would kind of agree that Schneider has a bit more value than Dubnik, but to say that he would fetch Yakupov is pure insanity. (He would most likely get the same return as Varlamov)
Then why trade him?

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Old
02-07-2013, 02:13 PM
  #82
alpine4life
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Originally Posted by a pony View Post
Then why trade him?
you dont... unless you have interests in a 1st and 2-2nd

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Old
02-07-2013, 02:36 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpine4life View Post
you dont... unless you have interests in a 1st and 2-2nd
Which we don't.

However, some accomodating Oilers fans proposed something along the lines of Hemsky or Gagner, MPS and a pick for Lu. Obviously with the ridiculous string of injuries at center, Gagner is likely off the table.

Schneider would cost more then that.

Dubnyk has low value to us, Fistric I'd be moderately interested in, as opposed to Alberts of Vandemeer as our 7/8 guy, and I do like Hemsky, even accounting for his penchant for injuries.

Ballard has been one of our two best defender this season, and with Hamhuis, Edler, Bieksa and Garrison being the four he's out played, that's saying quite a bit. He will have to be moved eventually, but if Edmonton is interested, unless they offer something substantially more, I'd politely request they reinquire come the off season.

Schneider hasn't "lost his starting job" to (perinnial all star) Luongo, he never had it
in my mind, it was going to be a platoon situation until a move is made. That being said, outside of game one, he hasn't played poorly at all, so his value isn't any lower to us.

Finally Higgins is our "Swiss (American) Army Knife". He's been a little slow getting going points wise, but he plays all situations well, and is on a cheap contract. Frankly, I'd go as far as to say Higgins, at his cap hit, would be worth more to us then Hemsky at his.

I mean it's not as bad as 4 pages of bickering suggests, but I just don't see the returning pieces being as good a fit as the OP.

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Old
02-07-2013, 02:49 PM
  #84
Reign Nateo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
Higgins is nothing, Ballard is horrible and Schneider hasn't proved anything. How is this good for the Oilers?
Higgins is nothing? He had a similar stat line to Sam Gagner last year and we know how Oiler fans feel about Sam. He checks and kills penalties too. Actually a pretty useful player that would help Edmonton a lot. In fact he played as much as Hemsky last year and had almost double the goals. All the while being a defensively responsible player without glass shoulders and is signed to a good contract, not a horrific one.

All things considered:

Higgins = Hemsky

Ballard is not horrible at all. Another HF myth that won't die. He's off to a great start and is not nearly as bad as people around here seem to think. He struggled adjusting to the Canucks system and gets no PP time so his offensive numbers are down, but I would be willing to bet he'd be one of the better defenders on the Oilers immediately. Fistric is a slow, plodding, physical bottom pairing defenceman. I'd bet that even with their respective salaries teams in the NHL would gladly take Ballard here.

Ballard > Fistric

Now the Schneider/Dubnyk comparison. Here's some stats to chew on:

Dubnyk:
NHL 111GP .911/2.83
AHL 132GP .907/3.02
WHL 192GP .911/2.70

Schneider:
NHL 72GP .926/2.29
AHL 136GP .920/2.31
HE 99GP .935/2.09

So Schneider is unproven and worth less than Dubnyk because he's played 39 less games? If that extra amount of games proves anything, then Dubnyk is the next Alex Auld. Schendier has put up elite numbers at every level since high school. Dubnyk? Not so much. Schneider has elite leg speed and lateral quickness, Dubnyk has trouble down low and getting accross the crease, that will get worse as he ages. There is a reason Schendier has blown Dubnyk out of the water at every stage, it's because he's of a much higher pedigree. There's a reason the Canucks were reportedly given "eye opening" offers for Schneider last year. This would be an easy choice for any GM.

Schneider > Dubnyk.

So the Canucks get a worse goalie, a worse defenceman and an injury prone, over-paid forward that would probably be valued pretty similart to Higgins all things considered, and it's a bad deal for Edmonton?

Gillis would be forced to fire himself if he looked at this deal for more than 10 seconds.

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Old
02-07-2013, 03:20 PM
  #85
Mr Tarkanian
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Hemsky>Higgins (Enough with the injury prone crap, he finally looks healthy lockout did him some good)

Ballard=Fistric (Ballards contract is brutal)

Schneider > Dubie (No matter how good he has played so far this year)

Canucks would not do this, Edmonton probably would just to get to get there hands on Schneider and rightfully so.

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Old
02-07-2013, 03:51 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lime View Post
To Vancouver:

F Ales Hemsky (5.0M thru 13/14)
D Mark Fistric (1.5M thru 12/13)
G Devan Dubnyk (3.5M thru 13/14)

To Edmonton:

F Chris Higgins (1.9M thru 12/13)
D Keith Ballard (4.2M thru 14/15)
G Cory Schneider (4.0M thru 14/15)

Canucks add a key piece to their forward crop in their current Cup chase. Oilers add a long term goaltending stud to backbone their hoard of draft lottery youngstars.
Since the start of last year Oct 2012:
Devin dubnyk with:
Smid-Petry
Whitney-Sutton/N. Schultz
And no Gilbert and Barker.

36 Starts
2140Minutes
22W 9L 5OTL
2.35GA
.930SV%

Of the 36 Games:
1-6GA
3-4GA
13-3GA
8-2GA
10-11GA
1-SO

32 of 36 games we have a legitamate chance to win.
Our two games this year against VCR with luongo and Dubnyk in net.
Edm 1W-1OTL 4G on 64 Shots 1.85GA .938SV%
Vcr 1W-1OTL 4G on 57 Shots 1.85GA .930SV%

Yes we want to trade for a goalie who cannot beat out the guy dubnyk can play even with.
No matter how canucks fans want to frame it.
We do not want your Back-up!
I think both teams will continue with the starters.

we VCR may continue to flip a coin.

Anyone looking at dubnyk and saying you cannot use this years numbers.

It is afull season + of numbers with our current D.
Tarkanian:
Red from the 70's show wants to call you something.


Last edited by oilerbear: 02-07-2013 at 04:01 PM.
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Old
02-07-2013, 03:54 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
what you mean is Hemsky was facing greater opposition?

and by the way, Higging is white too!
Why do you insist on putting words in EVERYONES mouthes.... No, what I mean was that Hemsky would not be playing those minutes in Vancouver. He'd be on the second line JUST LIKE HIGGINS WAS. Even then, The Kesler line was facing just as tough opposition as EDM was and probably played them better too. Kesler= Selke.

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Old
02-07-2013, 04:11 PM
  #88
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I have to make a comment on this.
Yes Schneider has been the better goalie so far but we all know how players and goalies pan out. I am not going to say that Schneider or Dub is going to be a bust but you can't say well lets see who is playing better or who has played better in the past. This is suppose to be the comig out year for both goalies. Dub has played very well this season so far. If he has not played the way he has then EDM would not have won a gam at all this year. Schneider has not started off so well so of course it is hard to say who is better at this point.

When it comes to Hemsky, he has been injured and had surgery done and is now fully healed. He is showing that this year so far. Ballard is way over paid and Fistric is paid for what he brings. I would take Fistric over Ballard as Fistric is exactly what EDM needs.

As an EDM fan I would rather keep the players that I have and if we are going to trade Hemsky it won't be for another goalie or an over paid dman, it will be fora younger player that can help our team as they grow with the other players. VAN does not have any prospects that really interest me.

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Old
02-07-2013, 04:14 PM
  #89
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Seriously, what is the difference between Fistric and Peckham or Sutton....truth...not much.

Kid is still making hay off his draft position, he's a very average 6th defensman.

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Old
02-07-2013, 04:16 PM
  #90
rockinghockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freakydave View Post
I've noticed the tendancy to downgrade a player because of their contract.
In this case Ballard actually improves their team he could play in their top 4.
Edm fans that wouldn't take this deal & run are nuts
We have Schultz, Schultz, Smid and Petry in our top 4, I don't see Ballard taking any of those spots. So we are going to pay Ballard 4.2mil to play on the 3rd pairing when we can pay Fistric about 1.75mil plus Fistric is exactly what we need on the 3rd pairing. It would also be nice to have Crosby, Malkin, Tavres and Getzlaf as your 4 centremen but a team can't afford that can they and there are only so many minutes to go around.

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Old
02-07-2013, 04:22 PM
  #91
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Gillis laughs and hangs up.

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Old
02-07-2013, 05:06 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lime View Post
To Vancouver:

F Ales Hemsky (5.0M thru 13/14)
D Mark Fistric (1.5M thru 12/13)
G Devan Dubnyk (3.5M thru 13/14)

To Edmonton:

F Chris Higgins (1.9M thru 12/13)
D Keith Ballard (4.2M thru 14/15)
G Cory Schneider (4.0M thru 14/15)

Canucks add a key piece to their forward crop in their current Cup chase. Oilers add a long term goaltending stud to backbone their hoard of draft lottery youngstars.
No way. Value is actually reasonable, but Hemsky showed why he's so valuable to a very young and green Oilers offense last night (and many nights so far this year).

I'd rather have Fistric at 1.5 than Ballard at 4.2, though I recognize that Ballard is more skilled.

And honestly, with the way Dubnyk's played, he's been a total bright spot for this team, so I don't think Schneider is much of an upgrade.

Higgins would be a great piece to add, but not at the expense of Hemsky.

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Old
02-07-2013, 05:20 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post

Higgins = Hemsky
lol. I noticed you showed stats from a multitude of previous seasons with Dubynk and Scnieder. Why not do one with Hemsky and Higgins. Those stats will back up Hemsky 100%

But you equate Higgins and Hemsky on the basis of "going forward" if thats what you want to evalute on... Dubnyk is pretty much even with Schnieder if you look at recent stats.

If your gunna pick evidence to support your argument, atleast make it consistant.

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Old
02-07-2013, 05:27 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
Oilers should see how Dubnyk pans out. He could be solid.

If Edmonton was serious about Schneider, he would cost you Yakupov.


Schneider + Ballard = Yakupov.

Its steep, but its fair value . It could go either way. Yak could end up being a headcase or a superstar. Canucks would be taking that chance
LOL

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Old
02-07-2013, 05:32 PM
  #95
Reign Nateo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
lol. I noticed you showed stats from a multitude of previous seasons with Dubynk and Scnieder. Why not do one with Hemsky and Higgins. Those stats will back up Hemsky 100%

But you equate Higgins and Hemsky on the basis of "going forward" if thats what you want to evalute on... Dubnyk is pretty much even with Schnieder if you look at recent stats.

If your gunna pick evidence to support your argument, atleast make it consistant.
It was two different arguments, therefore two different breakdowns. I'm not interested in arguing the value of players, this is a terrible deal for Vancouver that has 0% chance of happening. I can see the Oiler's point of view here, but the Canucks can do a lot better than this for those assets.

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Old
02-07-2013, 05:40 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
lol. I noticed you showed stats from a multitude of previous seasons with Dubynk and Scnieder. Why not do one with Hemsky and Higgins. Those stats will back up Hemsky 100%

But you equate Higgins and Hemsky on the basis of "going forward" if thats what you want to evalute on... Dubnyk is pretty much even with Schnieder if you look at recent stats.

If your gunna pick evidence to support your argument, atleast make it consistant.
How about games played and cap hit? Or is that inconsistant too...?

As for Dubnyk vs, Schneider, please, start a poll. I'll get the MJ-popcorn .gif ready.

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Old
02-07-2013, 05:42 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerSVT View Post
LOL
Yeah, that one I kind of agree with you on. Yakupov has played nothing but spectacular hockey so far, so it's not even a matter of "if he gets good".

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Old
02-07-2013, 05:45 PM
  #98
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How about Higgins for Hemsky straight up. Oilers are always complaining about the guy so just do it. Throw in a 6th rd pick to make Gillis seal the envelope...

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Old
02-07-2013, 06:48 PM
  #99
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Schneider is probably the better goalie, I can admit that. He has excelled at every level. Nevertheless, I'm happy with dubnyk right now and I certainly don't think Edmonton should give up anything of value to upgrade one of the few things on the team that doesn't need upgrading.

As for hemsky, he is a game changer. The guy is a magician with the puck. Yeah he gets hurt and yeah be puts plays offside more than I'd like but damn can be dangle and make something out of nothing like no player I've seen. Edmonton isn't in desperate need of whatever Higgins brings, they don't need it right this second. They can afford to look for it in free agency or for lesser assets, so why would they trade a game changer like hemsky for a far more common and readily available player like Higgins.

Ballard is meh personified.

I'm sure nuck fans are happy to keep Schneider.

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Old
02-07-2013, 07:51 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bennett View Post
How about Higgins for Hemsky straight up. Oilers are always complaining about the guy so just do it. Throw in a 6th rd pick to make Gillis seal the envelope...
Not this year, hes been one of the best forwards. Looking like his back to his former self. Plus guys like Jones/MPS do the role of Higgins on the 3rd line

Id be ok with packaging Hemsky for a big or defensively sound #2 center

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