HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Pens eyeing Kulemin

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-07-2013, 02:38 PM
  #726
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,300
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
Sutter is terribly overrated
In what respect? In 10 games, in a purely defensive role, he's been on the ice for a grand total of 1 ES goal against. Or, do you mean 'he's over-rated if people see him as a 1C'?

KIRK is offline  
Old
02-07-2013, 02:39 PM
  #727
p.l.f.
mvp
 
p.l.f.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 35,137
vCash: 500
kulemin for sutter

i mean why not?

p.l.f. is offline  
Old
02-07-2013, 02:40 PM
  #728
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 14,817
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
The last line in your post tells me you don't watch as much as yoj claim because the blueline prospects are VERY strong
Rielly and Gardiner (if his recent concussion doesn't become a recurring problem) are the only two completely legit guys.

Blacker was pretty decent before he got hurt in the playoffs last season. He is the most solid of the big four on the farm in his own end.

Finn needs to get A LOT stronger and his skating needs work. He is a tweener who is undersized, but isn't a smooth skating blueliner who is going to light up the pros. So he has to really bulk up and improve his skating to carve out a defensive minded niche in the pros if he wants to stick.

Percy is a solid blueliner who could top out as maybe a #4, he is a pretty smooth kid. He has had his season derailed with a number of injuries this year and unfortunately suffered yet another concussion. As a Leafs fan, it would make me nervous. Hopefully it is something he can overcome.

The Leafs have some nice prospects on the blueline, but those fans acting like they have this incredible farm of blueliners and don't need anymore, need a reality check.


Last edited by Mr Jiggyfly: 02-07-2013 at 02:45 PM.
Mr Jiggyfly is offline  
Old
02-07-2013, 02:41 PM
  #729
bobbyflex
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,392
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
In what respect? In 10 games, in a purely defensive role, he's been on the ice for a grand total of 1 ES goal against. Or, do you mean 'he's over-rated if people see him as a 1C'?
Yes. Or even has a 2C for that matter

bobbyflex is offline  
Old
02-07-2013, 02:42 PM
  #730
Faltorvo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,388
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Gotye View Post
And how do we know Kulemin, an established 2nd line player is worthy of trading for a defensive prospect who can then be flipped for something better? Or will ever crack the Leafs lineup?

I'm not there. In the cases of JVR/Schenn and Aulie/Ashton they were basically across the board moves, because JVR/Schenn were already established NHLers, and Aulie/Ashton are still nothing but prospects right now.

You would basically be trading one of the Leafs top 6 wingers, who brings a skillset most current Leafs players lack up front and exchanging it for an unknown.

That's moving backwards, not forwards.
2 unknowns, my deal has pits 2013 1rst in it.

Faltorvo is online now  
Old
02-07-2013, 02:42 PM
  #731
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,300
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
And this all anyone needs to know from you. It's very clear you only watch him play vs the Pens. Not worth anyone's time to try and make a point against a person who is ignorant about the subject being discussed.



Do you know what top 3 means? Top 3 means #1-#3 D man, so top 3 includes #1. It's not that hard to take a second and understand exactly what's being said. #1 is his absolute best case scenario, just like 30 goals is Kulemin's absolute best scenario. The only difference being Kulemin has actually accomplished that feat.

His defensive game is not even close to suggesting he can be a guy who shuts down the opponents top line consistently at the moment. PPQB is correct, but I would not say he has #1 D potential based on his potential right now.
At the risk of engaging in a battle of wits with a nitwit, try reading what I've written throughout this thread. Or, do you actually believe that Kulemin has the trade value of anything more than a third insignificant piece in a deal for a high end talent? No, I think you're one of those geniuses who thinks Kulemin plus one of the Leafs can't miss defensive prospects (and we all know they all are can't miss) should be enough for a 1C.

KIRK is offline  
Old
02-07-2013, 02:43 PM
  #732
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,300
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Rielly and Gardiner (if his recent concussion doesn't become a recurring problem) are the only two completely legit guys.

Blacker was pretty decent before he got hurt in the playoffs last season. He is the most solid of the big four on the farm in his own end.

Finn needs to get A LOT stronger and his skating needs work. He is a tweener who is undersized, but isn't a smooth skating blueliner who is going to light up the pros. So he has to really bulk up and improve his skating to carve out a defensive minded niche in the pros if he wants to stick.

Percy is a solid blueliner who could top out as maybe a #4, he is a pretty smooth kid. He has had his season derailed with a number of injuries this year and unfortunately suffered yet another concussion. As a Leaf fan, it would make me nervous. Hopefully it is something he can overcome.

The Leafs have some nice prospects on the blueline, but those fans acting like they have this incredible farm of blueliners and don't need anymore, need a reality check.
Clearly, you don't really watch the Leafs either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
2 unknowns, my deal has pits 2013 1rst in it.
It's the other half we're trying to work around.

KIRK is offline  
Old
02-07-2013, 02:47 PM
  #733
p.l.f.
mvp
 
p.l.f.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 35,137
vCash: 500
the leafs used to understimate their prospects then they'd shine elsewhere (rask as an example)
so it's nice to see them showing confidence in them for a change
good thing they kept kadri and frattin)

p.l.f. is offline  
Old
02-07-2013, 02:47 PM
  #734
stanleyorbust
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 865
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kratzbuerste View Post
Is "some forward depth" a euphemism for MacArthur? If so, no, thank you.
I swear he will turn out better than Ponikarovsky... only cost you a 1st rounder.

stanleyorbust is offline  
Old
02-07-2013, 02:49 PM
  #735
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,300
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanleyorbust View Post
I swear he will turn out better than Ponikarovsky... only cost you a 1st rounder.
Saying he'll turn out better than Ponikarovsky isn't saying much.

KIRK is offline  
Old
02-07-2013, 02:49 PM
  #736
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 14,817
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Clearly, you don't really watch the Leafs either.
I need to stop watching so many Leafs games and more Pens games. Apparently Crosby played all last season and padded Dupper's stats when I wasn't watching.

I had no idea bro...

Mr Jiggyfly is offline  
Old
02-07-2013, 02:52 PM
  #737
vanwest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,643
vCash: 500
Kulemin is a bit of an enigma right now. A 30 plus goal season followed by a 7 goal season and now one goal in 10 games. Right now is probably not the greatest time to trade him unless Toronto has really decided he doesn't fit.

vanwest is online now  
Old
02-07-2013, 02:52 PM
  #738
Faltorvo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,388
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
How many points does Kulemin have on the ice when he wasn't out there with his buddy Malkin?

Here's a hint . . . 9 games, 1 goal, 2 assists, -4, right on a 30 point pace again.

There are two Kulemins. The one who does all the little things but is frustrating when it comes to any offensive production. Then, there's the one who kills it on the ice with Malkin (playing with or against him).
I don't know where you get the frustrating part.

We here understand the turmoil he went through last season after the plane crash.

He is on pace for a 50 point season right now , for a 2nd line checking forward.

I don't recall any sane leafs fan that saw him more then a 30/30 or if you like a 60p two way player.

No frustration on our side of it.

Faltorvo is online now  
Old
02-07-2013, 02:52 PM
  #739
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 14,817
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
the leafs used to understimate their prospects then they'd shine elsewhere (rask as an example)
so it's nice to see them showing confidence in them for a change
good thing they kept kadri and frattin)
Frattin was tough during the Calder run last season until he got hurt. I kept telling my wife he was going to make some noise this year.

His ability to handle the puck and make plays at high speeds is silly.

Hopefully he can earn a permanent role on the big club and keeps playing well.

Mr Jiggyfly is offline  
Old
02-07-2013, 02:53 PM
  #740
Pierre Gotye
Registered User
 
Pierre Gotye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: McKinney, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 4,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Ya, slow your roll playboy. I don't care about trading Dupuis for Kumy because Shero isn't going to trade him. Just get your story straight before making things up. It makes you lose credibility.
I'm not making things up. I believe you and some others were suggesting Dupuis for Kulemin+ which makes no sense for either team.

Burke already targeted Dupuis as a FA back in 2011. The reason being the skills he was looking for was his PK skillset, not his offensive skills.


Quote:
As far as what I know about the Leafs, please. I know as much about the Leafs and your farm as any fan on here. My wife is a die hard Leafs fan and I see not only a **** ton of Leafs games, but Marlies games and routinely watch the W and O as well. So I'm well aware of your org from top to bottom.
Well that's great. You referring to him as 'Kumy' sounds a like you're as much an outsider to Leafs hockey as anyone else is who doesn't regularly follow the team.

Quote:
And yes, I know the dirty little secret that your blueline prospects aren't as strong as some of you are suggesting.
Rielly is an excellent blueline prospect most teams would to have, a kind of prospect most teams don't have, and he's a cut above a lot of guys who are already prospects of draft picks. Some scouts believe he could very well be the best defenseman of the 2012 draft. Gardiner if he can return from injury is another fine young defenseman.

Blacker, Finn, and Percy are prospects...not great prospects but potentially NHL prospects who need some time to be developed. What is Morrow going to bring to the table that's not already in the Leafs defense corps when it is 100%? Not seeing the upside other than another body. And the Leafs don't need another body. Is he going to be pencilled in over Franson? Is he going to take minutes away from Liles, Phaneuf, Kostka? Gunarsson? Maybe you could argue Komisarek. Maybe you could argue Holzer. Maybe you could argue Fraser. But then who goes when Gardiner comes back, because Morrow won't be playing more minutes than a 100% healthy Gardiner. And he's not going to knock off Phaneuf, and he's not going to play over Gunarsson..I have doubts of him knocking off Kostka, because RC loves him. And RC also seems to be getting more comfortable with Franson as well, for his ability to put the puck on the net from the point. Does he play over Liles? A remote argument might be made there.

The Leafs have a logjam on the blueline anyways, and I don't think the need is for another defenseman. A legitimate number one defenseman maybe...but Maata and Morrow are not at this point suited to be prototypical #1 defenseman. At some point one of the above mentioned players will be moved, because it's too many contracts for defenseman, and not enough roster spots. That's why the Leafs don't need more defenseman.

Pierre Gotye is offline  
Old
02-07-2013, 02:53 PM
  #741
IcedCapp
IcedCapp The White
 
IcedCapp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,640
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I need to stop watching so many Leafs games and more Pens games. Apparently Crosby played all last season and padded Dupper's stats when I wasn't watching.

I had no idea bro...
I'm not sure of your read, but I'm in much the same situation - Pens fan married to a Leafs fan, watch at least some of every Leafs game and some Marlies games. I'm convinced that Rielly and Gardiner (though he's been pretty bad so far this year) will make an impact at the NHL level. Not sure of the rest. Holzer has been.... shaky.

edit:

I swear I didn't see where you said basically the same thing until I saw birddog quote that post at the bottom of this page. Sorry, wasn't trying to steal your thoughts.


Last edited by IcedCapp: 02-07-2013 at 03:04 PM.
IcedCapp is offline  
Old
02-07-2013, 02:54 PM
  #742
Brewsky
King Of The Ice Mugs
 
Brewsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: King County
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,092
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Brewsky Send a message via AIM to Brewsky Send a message via MSN to Brewsky Send a message via Yahoo to Brewsky Send a message via Skype™ to Brewsky
Kulemin would be more valuable to the Penguins than to the Leafs. Malkin, Neal and Kulemin would be devastating. Have to pay a premium Pens, give me Morrow/Harrington/Maata, or it don't Maata what you suggest *****!

Brewsky is offline  
Old
02-07-2013, 02:55 PM
  #743
Faltorvo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,388
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
That makes you more fortunate than most around here, no?
Depends how you look at it, one could say i have less time left to actually see the next one and i might need every minute left to pull that off.

Faltorvo is online now  
Old
02-07-2013, 02:56 PM
  #744
birddog*
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,988
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Rielly and Gardiner (if his recent concussion doesn't become a recurring problem) are the only two completely legit guys.

Blacker was pretty decent before he got hurt in the playoffs last season. He is the most solid of the big four on the farm in his own end.

Finn needs to get A LOT stronger and his skating needs work. He is a tweener who is undersized, but isn't a smooth skating blueliner who is going to light up the pros. So he has to really bulk up and improve his skating to carve out a defensive minded niche in the pros if he wants to stick.

Percy is a solid blueliner who could top out as maybe a #4, he is a pretty smooth kid. He has had his season derailed with a number of injuries this year and unfortunately suffered yet another concussion. As a Leafs fan, it would make me nervous. Hopefully it is something he can overcome.

The Leafs have some nice prospects on the blueline, but those fans acting like they have this incredible farm of blueliners and don't need anymore, need a reality check.
Reilly and Gardiner are enough to say the prospect pool on the backend is terrific.

birddog* is offline  
Old
02-07-2013, 03:01 PM
  #745
Faltorvo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,388
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Clearly, you don't really watch the Leafs either.



It's the other half we're trying to work around.
Yup.

And honestly I'm hurt.

No love for me projecting you all as, at worst a final 4 team and high % 30th pick.

Faltorvo is online now  
Old
02-07-2013, 03:02 PM
  #746
Pierre Gotye
Registered User
 
Pierre Gotye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: McKinney, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 4,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
I don't know where you get the frustrating part.

We here understand the turmoil he went through last season after the plane crash.

He is on pace for a 50 point season right now , for a 2nd line checking forward.

I don't recall any sane leafs fan that saw him more then a 30/30 or if you like a 60p two way player.

No frustration on our side of it.
Realistically he's probably a 20/25 guy...and has a high-end ceiling of 30/30.

Until the Leafs sort out their goaltending, and find a #1 center, and stop making a lot of young team mistakes...Kulemin will continue to try and do a little too much.

Plus the Leafs are in somewhat of a disarray right now with the top 6 with Lupul out. The JVR and MacArthur as the Lupul replacement hasn't really been working. MacArthur is struggling in his usually 2nd line role, although JVR was much better suited in the 2nd line. Lots of line shuffling.

Kessel makes his own offense most of the time. Lupul was a great compliment to him, although Kulemin looked liked also a great compliment to Kessel in the brief amount of time the Kessel-Bozak-Kulemin line spent together. Dunno why RC doesn't try that experiment again, and put JVR back with Grabovski and then try MacArthur again, or perhaps promote Frattin or Kadri to the 2nd line. Kadri and Kessel do not work well together however.

Pierre Gotye is offline  
Old
02-07-2013, 03:03 PM
  #747
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 14,817
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Gotye View Post
Well that's great. You referring to him as 'Kumy' sounds a like you're as much an outsider to Leafs hockey as anyone else is who doesn't regularly follow the team.
I don't hang out on the Leafs board with the cool kids, so sorry I'm out of the loop on how you guys spell his nickname. So I'll stick to the way I like to spell it.

Quote:
Rielly is an excellent blueline prospect most teams would to have, a kind of prospect most teams don't have, and he's a cut above a lot of guys who are already prospects of draft picks. Some scouts believe he could very well be the best defenseman of the 2012 draft. Gardiner if he can return from injury is another fine young defenseman.

Blacker, Finn, and Percy are prospects...not great prospects but potentially NHL prospects who need some time to be developed. What is Morrow going to bring to the table that's not already in the Leafs defense corps when it is 100%? Not seeing the upside other than another body. And the Leafs don't need another body. Is he going to be pencilled in over Franson? Is he going to take minutes away from Liles, Phaneuf, Kostka? Gunarsson? Maybe you could argue Komisarek. Maybe you could argue Holzer. Maybe you could argue Fraser. But then who goes when Gardiner comes back, because Morrow won't be playing more minutes than a 100% healthy Gardiner. And he's not going to knock off Phaneuf.

The Leafs have a logjam on the blueline anyways, and I don't think the need is for another defenseman. A legitimate number one defenseman maybe...but Maata and Morrow are not at this point suited to be prototypical #1 defenseman. At some point one of the above mentioned players will be moved, because it's too many contracts for defenseman, and not enough roster spots. That's why the Leafs don't need more defenseman.
Morrow isn't being traded so no need to waste time trying to figure out where he fits. The Pens have no one capable of Qbing their PP and they need him... BADLY.

I'm a closet Leafs fan going on eight years now and I don't think they should trade Kumy. However, I'm not Nonis and I have no idea what he thinks or what his plans are. I would think making the playoffs is his biggest goal. So trading Kumy for futures doesn't help him this season.

But reading that through this thread that the Leafs have no need for blueline prospects is one big eye roll for me.

Mr Jiggyfly is offline  
Old
02-07-2013, 03:04 PM
  #748
Pierre Gotye
Registered User
 
Pierre Gotye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: McKinney, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 4,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Reilly and Gardiner are enough to say the prospect pool on the backend is terrific.
Absolutely.

Pierre Gotye is offline  
Old
02-07-2013, 03:05 PM
  #749
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 14,817
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Reilly and Gardiner are enough to say the prospect pool on the backend is terrific.
Sure, if it makes you feel better go for it.

Mr Jiggyfly is offline  
Old
02-07-2013, 03:06 PM
  #750
Zen Arcade
eat the record cover
 
Zen Arcade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 14,492
vCash: 500
I can't see giving up the farm for a guy that outside of one big season is about as productive as Tyler Kennedy, even when given a larger offensive role than Kennedy.

Now obviously Kulemin brings a much more well-rounded skill set to the table, but it's still concerning. And with Shero being the way he is, unless the cost is reasonable, I can't see him taking the risk.

Zen Arcade is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:19 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.