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The Armchair GM Thread - Part XXXII - Kessel Run Edition

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02-07-2013, 12:10 PM
  #101
Tiranis
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Aye. The highest I would go is the aforementioned, Schneider + Gaunce + 1st + 2nd (2014). Preferably, we do not need to add a second but I'd be willing to do so. I have a hard time selling Jensen and refuse to trade Kassian right now. We simply do not have the prospect depth.
Yep, this is pretty much the most I would give up for Kessel. Just can't afford to lose Jensen or Kassian with the cap as it is.

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02-07-2013, 02:21 PM
  #102
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The most I'd give up for Kessel is nothing, because he'd just take up a roster spot and become completely useless in the playoffs. He's got a good shot, but the dude's a soft, perimeter player. Always has been, always will be. There's nothing to indicate that that will change and in the west (which is known to be a harder checking/grinding conference), he'll probably get destroyed.

Doughy Phil needs to stay in Toronto so he can help continue to keep that team a perennial basement dweller. The Canucks should stay far away.

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02-07-2013, 02:24 PM
  #103
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The most I'd give up for Kessel is nothing, because he'd just take up a roster spot and become completely useless in the playoffs. He's got a good shot, but the dude's a soft, perimeter player. Always has been, always will be. There's nothing to indicate that that will change and in the west (which is known to be a harder checking/grinding conference), he'll probably get destroyed.

Doughy Phil needs to stay in Toronto so he can help continue to keep that team a perennial basement dweller. The Canucks should stay far away.
That's why he scored 9 goals and 15 points in his 15 playoff games as a member of the Bruins, right? Why in the world would one of the best NHL snipers be affected by the increased physicality and checking? The guy doesn't need to be near the net to score goals.

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02-07-2013, 02:56 PM
  #104
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The most I'd give up for Kessel is nothing, because he'd just take up a roster spot and become completely useless in the playoffs. He's got a good shot, but the dude's a soft, perimeter player. Always has been, always will be. There's nothing to indicate that that will change and in the west (which is known to be a harder checking/grinding conference), he'll probably get destroyed.

Doughy Phil needs to stay in Toronto so he can help continue to keep that team a perennial basement dweller. The Canucks should stay far away.
How could you possibly know this? The last time he was in the playoffs was a point per game player at the tender age of 21.

Kessel is terribly underrated in my opinion. He is a terrific skater and can score from anywhere inside the blueline. He's no softer than other players of his ilk. It's seems like if you're not Lucic you're perceived as useless in the playoffs nowadays.

That being said, for what it would cost, Kessel doesn't really interest me.

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02-07-2013, 02:58 PM
  #105
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By the way people talk, you would think that Kessel is 5'7 and 160lbs. In reality he's listed at 6' and 202lbs.

Like the Sedins, he may not be a very physical player in the way that he plays, but he has enough size and strength to take a beating from the opposition and keep moving forward.

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02-07-2013, 03:05 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by mrmyheadhurts View Post
How could you possibly know this? The last time he was in the playoffs was a point per game player at the tender age of 21.

Kessel is terribly underrated in my opinion. He is a terrific skater and can score from anywhere inside the blueline. He's no softer than other players of his ilk. It's seems like if you're not Lucic you're perceived as useless in the playoffs nowadays.

That being said, for what it would cost, Kessel doesn't really interest me.
This. We have guys that can muck about infront of the net, but we need to continue to support them with offensive skill and playmaking.

Kessel can do both.

Put him with Kassian, and I think we will see magic. Like Bertuzzi-Naslund magic.

I am not a proponent of overpaying for Kessel, and I am now regretting that I said ok to Schneider+Gaunce+1st, but saying he'd be useless here is absurd.

If we have any of the Sedins (PPG x 2), Kesler (30+ goals, 60-70 points), Booth (20 goals in shortened seasons), Burrows (30+ goals), Kessel (30+ goals) come into form with guys like Kassian or even Schroeder playing to potential, and support from Lapierre, Higgins, Hansen, Malhotra, Weise, Raymond and Volpatti....we look incredibly dangerous.

Not even mentioning 2 40+ point defenders (one topping at 49 last year), a 17 goal scorer, a 30+ point shut down defender and a 30 point defender playing on our bottom pairing, a super poised sophmore, a recent former 1st round pick in the press box and Vezina calibre goaltending...

If that was the offer, I don't see how we don't at least consider it. Not every trade yields a powerforward.

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02-07-2013, 03:11 PM
  #107
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Yep, this is pretty much the most I would give up for Kessel. Just can't afford to lose Jensen or Kassian with the cap as it is.
Two late first round picks for Kessel. That's it. No more.

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02-07-2013, 03:15 PM
  #108
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This. We have guys that can muck about infront of the net, but we need to continue to support them with offensive skill and playmaking.

If that was the offer, I don't see how we don't at least consider it. Not every trade yields a powerforward.
If Schneider is going, another power forward that is young, can skate, fight, and play in the top six is coming back, not Kessel. Kessel is not worth Schnieder.

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02-07-2013, 03:17 PM
  #109
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That's why he scored 9 goals and 15 points in his 15 playoff games as a member of the Bruins, right? Why in the world would one of the best NHL snipers be affected by the increased physicality and checking? The guy doesn't need to be near the net to score goals.
When was the last time Phil Kessel played in the playoffs? 2008-09, when the league was different than it is now. The dude is soft. Even his own fans admit that much. He has talent, but he's not what this team needs.

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02-07-2013, 03:22 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Congratulations, Schneider is officially overrated. While he undoubtedly talented, Kessel has considerably higher value. He is a four time 30+ (37 high) goal scorer at the age of twenty four. This, despite having Tyler friggin' Bozak as his center. Henrik or Kesler could realistically get him to crack fifty.
Oh for sure, but he is also a player on a 5m contract with only 1 year remaining, assuming he has a good season with the Canucks then not only is he going to be looking for a payrise (which we can't afford) or he is going to be moving on and for that one season we've moved our best goalkeeping and offensive prospect and a talented D prospect.
Yeah he'd increase our chances of winning the cup for a year or two but I'd rather have a lot of good years from Schnieder and Jensen and stay competitive than to sell off our future on a player we don't even know wants to play here.

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02-07-2013, 03:32 PM
  #111
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Oh for sure, but he is also a player on a 5m contract with only 1 year remaining, assuming he has a good season with the Canucks then not only is he going to be looking for a payrise (which we can't afford) or he is going to be moving on and for that one season we've moved our best goalkeeping and offensive prospect and a talented D prospect.
Yeah he'd increase our chances of winning the cup for a year or two but I'd rather have a lot of good years from Schnieder and Jensen and stay competitive than to sell off our future on a player we don't even know wants to play here.
We actually don't have a lot of cheap years with Schneider left. Schneider has two more seasons before he becomes a UFA, Kessel has one more year left. Either way, it's going to cost us.

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02-07-2013, 03:58 PM
  #112
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most i would give is schneider + gaunce + 1st

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02-07-2013, 04:20 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
For Leafs fans:

No, we're not going to trade Kassian+ for Kessel.
Gillis wants this team to be bigger and tougher. Kessel is the exact opposite of that.
can't afford to lose the pugnacity, testosterone, truculence and belligerence

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02-07-2013, 04:34 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Congratulations, Schneider is officially overrated.
I'm not so sure Schneider is overrated as Kessel is underrated.

Quote:
While he undoubtedly talented, Kessel has considerably higher value. He is a four time 30+ (37 high) goal scorer at the age of twenty four. This, despite having Tyler friggin' Bozak as his center. Henrik or Kesler could[B] realistically get him to crack fifty.
I'm not so sure. They don't seem like a good mix to me. Who's playing D? Kessel cycling? Kessel digging in the corners to fetch the Sedins pucks? He'd need to score a whole lot of PP goals to come close which means Kesler's goal production is going way down without Sedin PP time.


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02-07-2013, 04:34 PM
  #115
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Could be that I overrate Schneider, but I wouldn't deal him alone for Kessel. Not that I don't think Kessel is better, he is. But because I expect Kessel to cash in as soon as his contract is up, and Schneider seems a more long-term solution for the team. So multiple years of Schneider > 1.5 years of Kessel for me.



Besides, another team would be better able to give up futures for him. The Canucks can't, or really shouldn't, due their lack of quality prospects.

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02-07-2013, 04:48 PM
  #116
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What do you guys think of Visnovsky? Would he report to a contender?

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02-07-2013, 04:52 PM
  #117
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What do you guys think of Visnovsky? Would he report to a contender?
He's already reporting to the Islanders, so we don't have to worry about that.
What I'm worried about is his effort level that he'd bring to the ice game after game.

And Ballard is playing well right now, so I don't see us moving him unless we're offered something good. (there isn't room for Vis right now)

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02-07-2013, 04:58 PM
  #118
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He's already reporting to the Islanders, so we don't have to worry about that.
What I'm worried about is his effort level that he'd bring to the ice game after game.

And Ballard is playing well right now, so I don't see us moving him unless we're offered something good. (there isn't room for Vis right now)
Replacing Ballard with Visnovsky would mean no more PP time for Hamhuis, which is good in my books. He'd replicate a lot of what Ehrhoff brought to the PP in '10-'11.

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02-07-2013, 05:03 PM
  #119
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What do you guys think of Visnovsky? Would he report to a contender?
For the right price? Me likey.

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02-07-2013, 05:07 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by vector209 View Post
When was the last time Phil Kessel played in the playoffs? 2008-09, when the league was different than it is now. The dude is soft. Even his own fans admit that much. He has talent, but he's not what this team needs.
So


What

The guy is an offensive dynamo anyhow. I don't see anyone cutting down on the Sedins being soft. Hell, Martin St. Louis is soft. Go tell that to his Stanley Cup ring.

Soft/tough could careless. There are players I expect to be intimidating or at least gritty on this team, Kessel wouldn't be one of them and quite frankly I couldn't care less. Also, in terms of pure hockey skill, and I'll get thrown to the wolves on this, Kessel is better than the Sedins. He's a player we could use and for the right price, you'd be an idiot to turn him down.

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02-07-2013, 05:10 PM
  #121
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The hardest thing to do in hockey is put the puck in the net.

Kessel is one of the best in the league at doing that (not so far this year).

He's not an ideal target IMO, but he has the ability that no other player on our roster has IMO. If you can get him, and it doesn't decimate you....you do it.

I don't like his timid nature, or his sad face, or the aura it would continue to bring on our team, but a player like him is exactly what we're missing.

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02-07-2013, 05:10 PM
  #122
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I always feel like all the Canucks posters on the trades forum suffer from the Stockholm syndrome or something similar.
Couldn't have put it better if I tried.

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02-07-2013, 06:56 PM
  #123
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I don't like his timid nature, or his sad face, or the aura it would continue to bring on our team, but a player like him is exactly what we're missing.
I would say the top 6 could use a big, tough playmaker more than a soft goalscorer. Kessel might not be able to bump Burrows off the top line and would give the 2nd line 3 shoot-first players. Not an ideal fit there.

Every team could use a goalscorer like Kessel, though if we're looking at moving significant assets to acquire an impact player, he's not the guy I would do it for.

Can't stand his face either. Next to Ron Wilson, worst chops in hockey.

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02-07-2013, 07:27 PM
  #124
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Burrows-Kesler-Kessel
Sedin-Sedin-Kassian
Booth-Schroeder-Hansen
Higgins-Malhotra-Lapierre

Not a punishing group but one of those lines is going to absolutely run wild on a team's second pairing.

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02-07-2013, 09:04 PM
  #125
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When was the last time Phil Kessel played in the playoffs? 2008-09, when the league was different than it is now. The dude is soft. Even his own fans admit that much. He has talent, but he's not what this team needs.
Mike Cammalleri is among the softest players in the game. He is absolutely lethal in the playoffs. Ask Washington, Pittsburgh and the supposedly "super tough" Boston. Briere is another small and undersized player who is extraordinarily consistent in the post season. If the playoffs are so different from than to now, why have the Sedins put up some solid numbers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmyheadhurts View Post
How could you possibly know this? The last time he was in the playoffs was a point per game player at the tender age of 21.

Kessel is terribly underrated in my opinion. He is a terrific skater and can score from anywhere inside the blueline. He's no softer than other players of his ilk. It's seems like if you're not Lucic you're perceived as useless in the playoffs nowadays.

That being said, for what it would cost, Kessel doesn't really interest me.
Ironically, Lucic has been a frequent no show during the playoffs. In fact, many of the larger "powerforward" types are quiet because of the increased physicality expected of them. Pure snipers like Kessel are meant to be unleashed regardless of whether it is in the regular or post season.

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Originally Posted by Maccas View Post
Oh for sure, but he is also a player on a 5m contract with only 1 year remaining, assuming he has a good season with the Canucks then not only is he going to be looking for a payrise (which we can't afford) or he is going to be moving on and for that one season we've moved our best goalkeeping and offensive prospect and a talented D prospect.
Yeah he'd increase our chances of winning the cup for a year or two but I'd rather have a lot of good years from Schnieder and Jensen and stay competitive than to sell off our future on a player we don't even know wants to play here.
I am not convinced he does run off for a huge pay increase. Kessel is a relatively quiet guy who, despite wanting to win, prefers to be so away from the limelight. He would have that opportunity here by virtue of not being considered among our media focused core. Offer him 6-8 years and I wager we could get him under or around 5.5M. Even at 6M, Kessel is still affordable.

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