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Metro Seattle: NHL, NBA and Arena - Part VI

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02-07-2013, 02:58 PM
  #276
SaintPatrick33
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Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
What is the Seattle Portland rivalry really like? I've heard rumblings about it but I highly doubt it's anything like Calgary Edmonton - trust they hate everything Edmonton in Calgary it's Springfield Shelbyville times a million... Do Seattle and Portland share any teams? NFL for instance?
Thunderbirds vs Winterhawks is a hate-fest. I know the juniors tend to fly under most people's radar but the rivalry is there.

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02-07-2013, 03:04 PM
  #277
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The only thing we've ever shared in terms of sports Rivalries were The Sonics/Blazers in the NBA and the Sounders/Timbers in Soccer (Pre MLS for most of it)
I meant in terms of both cities supporting the same team. Do Portland fans support the Seahawks?

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02-07-2013, 03:07 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
What is the Seattle Portland rivalry really like? I've heard rumblings about it but I highly doubt it's anything like Calgary Edmonton - trust they hate everything Edmonton in Calgary it's Springfield Shelbyville times a million... Do Seattle and Portland share any teams? NFL for instance?
Soccer wise. Portland and Seattle hate each other.

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02-07-2013, 03:08 PM
  #279
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It would make more sense to put a team in Portland temporarily. It's pretty much the same distance to either city named Vancouver.....
That won't happen.

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02-07-2013, 03:08 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
I meant in terms of both cities supporting the same team. Do Portland fans support the Seahawks?
Oohhhh, My apologies

Ya know, I really don't know

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02-07-2013, 03:21 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Shaz View Post
Oohhhh, My apologies

Ya know, I really don't know
Seahawks (and Mariners) claim 10% of STHs are from Portland (though I'm thinking most of the STs are weekend packages rather than full tickets- it's not a good commute traffic-wise). BTW, when Portland flirted with MLB 10 years ago, the Mariners THEN claimed 30% of their ticket buyers were from Portland in an obvious attempt to thwart what wasn't going to happen anyway. Yes, Seahawks games are shown in Portland.

Timbers and Sounders? When Vancouver Whitecaps fans come down (or Portland fans go up), there's lots of mingling after games. It's very much NOT advisable for Timbers and Sounders fans. There's certainly no reason an NHL rivalry wouldn't be serious and TV-ready.

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02-07-2013, 03:27 PM
  #282
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Getting excited about this - will be GREAT for Canucks to have a down-the-road rival!
Get on the Victoria Clipper, could be a quick trip to Seattle

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02-07-2013, 03:29 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
What is the Seattle Portland rivalry really like? I've heard rumblings about it but I highly doubt it's anything like Calgary Edmonton - trust they hate everything Edmonton in Calgary it's Springfield Shelbyville times a million... Do Seattle and Portland share any teams? NFL for instance?

They hate each other, refs will let them go and fight.

I know the soccer rivalry is strong as well.

Regards to Portland interest in Hawks/M's, yes portland is a big market for Hawks/M's. Which makes sense.

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02-07-2013, 03:30 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
Thunderbirds vs Winterhawks is a hate-fest. I know the juniors tend to fly under most people's radar but the rivalry is there.
It has to be spurned on by the fans/cities, since aren't the kids only there for a couple of years?

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02-07-2013, 03:36 PM
  #285
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I can't imagine a team set to play in Seattle play its first seasons two hours away ever being a better idea than playing at the Key. The Key will work fine for however long it is needed.
You obviously have never driven this route. With customs at the Peace Arch... you're talking 3.5 (at best), more like 4 hours doorstep to doorstep.

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02-07-2013, 03:47 PM
  #286
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Portland and Seattle hate each other with a royal passion, and the only reason some Oregonians even bother supporting the Seahawks or Mariners is because those teams are the closest to them and they have no other options in terms of supporting regional teams. If Portland ever got an NFL or MLB team, Oregonians would defect from their support of the Seahawks and Mariners in droves.

MLS has a fantastic PDX-SEA rivalry there (especially when the Vancouver Whitecaps are factored in), the NBA had (and is about to rekindle) the Sonics-Blazers hatefest, and the Winterhawks and Thunderbirds is one of the better rivalries in minor league hockey, so if it ever came to pass that the NHL could come to both Portland and Seattle that would be a huge coup for the NHL when you toss the Canucks into the mix. The grudges that would be built up between these three teams would be huge.

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02-07-2013, 03:52 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
Do Seattle and Portland share any teams? NFL for instance?
I can only speculate on the fan base from Portland. I suspect there are numerous fans who drive north on Interstate 5 for approx. three hours to attend a Seahawks game. Also, the Seahawks games air on several radio stations in Oregon (among other states and BC).

In the highly unlikely event that Portland ends up with an NFL team, I would guess a new Seattle/Portland rivalry would form.

(From personal experience, there a very strong Buffalo Bills fan base from where I lived in Rochester, NY and east of where I lived in Syracuse. So out-of-town fan bases within a 2-3 hour drive from a professional team's venue is not unusual.)

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02-07-2013, 03:53 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by superdeluxe View Post
It has to be spurned on by the fans/cities, since aren't the kids only there for a couple of years?
Pretty much. Every time I go to a T-Birds Vs Winterhawks game this year people are in "Portland Cheated" t-shirts

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02-07-2013, 04:30 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Northender View Post
You obviously have never driven this route. With customs at the Peace Arch... you're talking 3.5 (at best), more like 4 hours doorstep to doorstep.
I have driven it plenty. I was just making a point, not very well, that what he was suggesting was ridiculous.

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02-07-2013, 05:07 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
Tacoma Dome is a no go.

Arena MOU agreement stated that they must play in Key Arena if NHL arrives before competition of the new arena.
I reocognize that. My points was if there was a hypothetic situation where Key Arena wasn't going to be used for NHL hockey, the Tacoma Dome would make more sense as a temporary venue then either Vancouver or Portland.

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02-07-2013, 05:11 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by MuzikMachine View Post
I reocognize that. My points was if there was a hypothetic situation where Key Arena wasn't going to be used for NHL hockey, the Tacoma Dome would make more sense as a temporary venue then either Vancouver or Portland.
Tacoma Dome is not even ready host a hockey game yet alone NHL. A lot of work needs to be done. If it isn't Key arena we won't be getting a relocated team. It'll be expansion after the new arena is built.

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02-07-2013, 05:12 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by OilersFan1978 View Post
Portland and Seattle hate each other with a royal passion, and the only reason some Oregonians even bother supporting the Seahawks or Mariners is because those teams are the closest to them and they have no other options in terms of supporting regional teams. If Portland ever got an NFL or MLB team, Oregonians would defect from their support of the Seahawks and Mariners in droves.

MLS has a fantastic PDX-SEA rivalry there (especially when the Vancouver Whitecaps are factored in), the NBA had (and is about to rekindle) the Sonics-Blazers hatefest, and the Winterhawks and Thunderbirds is one of the better rivalries in minor league hockey, so if it ever came to pass that the NHL could come to both Portland and Seattle that would be a huge coup for the NHL when you toss the Canucks into the mix. The grudges that would be built up between these three teams would be huge.
Back when Vancouver had the Grizzlies, how were their rivalries towards the Sonics & Blazers?

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02-07-2013, 05:40 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by MuzikMachine View Post
Back when Vancouver had the Grizzlies, how were their rivalries towards the Sonics & Blazers?
My sense is that they were, sadly, largely ignored. If there are any VG fans who can step in with their assessments, that might be helpful. A lot of the Sonics' focus in those days was on hating the Blazers and the Lakers, who were their biggest rivals during the Grizzlies' time in Vancouver, and the Blazers were knee-deep in the end of their glory days and too busy becoming the JailBlazers to really bother anyone else but the Sonics or to bother with anyone else but the Sonics, so I think the Grizzlies got overlooked. I've always been given the impression the Grizzlies weren't run very well or taken too seriously up there, so I think that diminished the impact of their presence here in the Northwest. I think the idea of having them up there was a sound one and could have worked if circumstances had been different, but maybe it just never took off up there?

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02-07-2013, 06:21 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
Tacoma Dome is a no go.

Arena MOU agreement stated that they must play in Key Arena if NHL arrives before competition of the new arena.
Here is the MOU: http://www.seattle.gov/arena/docs/120516PR-MOU.pdf

At the bottom of Page 17, it states that the owners of the NHL team "will have the option" to play in Key Arena. However, it goes on to say that the team owners would be responsible for paying for the renovations, with the city reaping the benefits since they own the Arena, so Key is pretty much the best option.

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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
Tacoma Dome is not even ready host a hockey game yet alone NHL. A lot of work needs to be done. If it isn't Key arena we won't be getting a relocated team. It'll be expansion after the new arena is built.
Due to its size, and the fact that it HAS hosted NHL preseason games in the past, I thought the Tacoma Dome would be a great temporary venue. But then I read this, which makes me think that the renovations would be too costly (unless the city of Tacoma and the new NHL owners could come to an agreement that helps both parties): http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/1...likely-at.html

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02-07-2013, 06:59 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by OilersFan1978 View Post
My sense is that they were, sadly, largely ignored.
The Grizzlies were to the NBA what the Thrashers were to the NHL - incompetently run, and then fans punished for ownership ridiculousness by having their team taken out back and shot.

There is still a significant segment of the sports market here that misses having an NBA team. People really wanted to love that team - is was a kind of validation of Vancouver as a big league city (hockey doesn't count, too Canadian, it's like getting a kiss from your auntie).

 
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02-07-2013, 06:59 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by Blue Goose View Post
Here is the MOU: http://www.seattle.gov/arena/docs/120516PR-MOU.pdf

At the bottom of Page 17, it states that the owners of the NHL team "will have the option" to play in Key Arena. However, it goes on to say that the team owners would be responsible for paying for the renovations, with the city reaping the benefits since they own the Arena, so Key is pretty much the best option.



Due to its size, and the fact that it HAS hosted NHL preseason games in the past, I thought the Tacoma Dome would be a great temporary venue. But then I read this, which makes me think that the renovations would be too costly (unless the city of Tacoma and the new NHL owners could come to an agreement that helps both parties): http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/1...likely-at.html
Problem is the arena deal specific states Key Arena for NHL. The ice making system has been removed since it last hosted a ice related event.

Tacoma would be terrible even if Tacoma Dome could work. Who would want to drive there especially against Rush hour traffic.

Its too long a drive for some folks that live north of Seattle. NHL team would do much worse at Tacoma dome than at Key arena due to longer travel.

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02-07-2013, 11:04 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by Northender View Post
You obviously have never driven this route. With customs at the Peace Arch... you're talking 3.5 (at best), more like 4 hours doorstep to doorstep.
I drove from Whistler to Seattle today in 4-hours which included a stop in Vancouver for lunch. I usually plan 2.5 hours for a trip between Vancouver & Seattle but traffic in either city can delay this a bit. Also regular travelers get the Nexus pass for the border which eliminates almost all the wait at customs but odd travelers can get stuck 90mins
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Originally Posted by MuzikMachine View Post
Back when Vancouver had the Grizzlies, how were their rivalries towards the Sonics & Blazers?
One of the biggest issues with the Grizzlies not getting a fair shake at a rivalry with Seattle or Portland was that the NBA put them in the MidWest division with Utah, Denver, Minnesota and the Texas teams. Hard to get a rivalry with the local teams with the 3-4 games per year rather than 6-8 in division.

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02-07-2013, 11:12 PM
  #298
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You obviously have never driven this route. With customs at the Peace Arch... you're talking 3.5 (at best), more like 4 hours doorstep to doorstep.
Use the truck crossing about a mile east.

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02-07-2013, 11:17 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by MuzikMachine View Post
Back when Vancouver had the Grizzlies, how were their rivalries towards the Sonics & Blazers?
Grizzlies were terrible and in another division, so no chance for a rivalry to grow. The Sonics were a title contender when the Grizszlies first came about. Significant numbers of Sonics fans ventured north to see the Sonics vs. the Grizzlies in Vancouver, but since the on court results were so lopsided, no rivalry grew.

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02-14-2013, 02:36 PM
  #300
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ďI havenít heard anything about expansion from our owners. They have discussed contraction in conjunction with the last Collective Bargaining Agreement. I donít think (expansion) is an option. Right now, we have no approved plan for an arena in Seattle. We have a very good potential ownership group and set of plans, but thereís a lot of work to be done. I keep a little green book with a list of all the cities interested in NBA teams and could respond pretty quickly. Thereís all kinds of stuff going on in Pittsburgh, Columbus, Louisville, Virginia Beach, Las Vegas, Vancouver, Mexico City, Kansas City.Ē

I donít think (expansion) is an option.
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/0...mple-solution/

The option that fans/media in Sacramento was pushing, that they keep kings, and we get expansion...that looks like a non-starter.

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