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Trade Rumours and Proposals: Part XXXIII

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Old
02-07-2013, 03:22 PM
  #776
neutral zone trap13
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Originally Posted by operasen View Post
Loktionov for a 5th was a surprise. Not that he was traded, but for only a 5th. I'd have looked at that deal.

If we do trade Bishop to Flames, I'd look for a young guy back. Baertschi would be out of the question, but I wonder about Backlund (may need to add a5th or something) and if not him then or maybe Jankowski or Rheinhart to address our centre depth.
I think that the best player from the 2011 draft will cost more than Bishop

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02-07-2013, 03:29 PM
  #777
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Originally Posted by General Granny View Post
Hes also a UFA whos asking too much money for them and we will be paying for 3 months of his service.

You guys forget what Kovalchuck returned as a soon to be UFA, you put too much value on UFAs, especially one in shortened season.
Kovalev was on pace for 41 pts as a one dimensional player that brings nothing other than offence, was 37 years old so little incentive to trade for him to get the chance to re-sign him either. Completely different situation. We were also in fire sale mode, so took anything offered. You certainly won't get that kind of deal at this time of year.

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02-07-2013, 04:11 PM
  #778
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Kovalchuck not Kovalev.

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Old
02-07-2013, 05:19 PM
  #779
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Originally Posted by ErikMacNorrison View Post
Howard Berger ‏@Berger_BYTES

Source tells me today #Leafs and #Senators have approached Florida about centre Stephen Weiss. Would look superb on either team.
Elliot Friedman already said that the Panthers had no interest in trading him on his latest "30 thoughts" article on CBC.

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Old
02-07-2013, 05:22 PM
  #780
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Originally Posted by General Granny View Post
Kovalchuck not Kovalev.
My bad... Reading comprehension not strong today.

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02-07-2013, 05:23 PM
  #781
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I think the market for Weiss is most likely an average prospect plus a second rounder at most. Upcoming UFAs off to slow starts rarely garner too much return. I would think one of Prince or Hoffman plus the draft pick would seal the deal, assuming the Panthers don't want salary coming back.

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Old
02-07-2013, 05:28 PM
  #782
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Originally Posted by bacon25 View Post
Elliot Friedman already said that the Panthers had no interest in trading him on his latest "30 thoughts" article on CBC.
Talon said he was going to try to sign him

If an offer is too good to refuse or if Weiss is not interested in staying Florida then what?

It never hurts to ask about a player even if you know he isn't available right away: if he does become available then you have the inside track.

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02-07-2013, 05:29 PM
  #783
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Pending UFA's of 3rd line calibre get 2nd rounders all over the place. Jason Arnott, Dominic Moore, Brad Winchester etc. have over the past few years. A 1B center like Weiss if traded is going to haul more than Hoffman and a pick, unless that pick is a 1st.

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02-07-2013, 05:36 PM
  #784
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Originally Posted by steffeG View Post
Pending UFA's of 3rd line calibre get 2nd rounders all over the place. Jason Arnott, Dominic Moore, Brad Winchester etc. have over the past few years. A 1B center like Weiss if traded is going to haul more than Hoffman and a pick, unless that pick is a 1st.
Every one always says player X will go for a bounty and that's almost never the case. Teams don't pay up for slightly above average players, they pay up for the stars and superstars in the league. Look up the last 3 years of trades and you'll find all the comparables you need.

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Old
02-07-2013, 05:46 PM
  #785
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We have $37,840,000 on the books for next season and with the salary cap at 64m and floor at low 50ish if I recall correctly..

Condra is up for a pay raise and maybe Lundin if he plays good this spring but other than that not much money going on our current RFA's.. If Alfie comes back its a no brainer whatever money he wants but do we resign Gonchar or do we go shopping in the UFA frenzy? 13 million to the cap floor with no Gonchar and Alfie.

Intresting summer for roster decisions to say the least!

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Old
02-07-2013, 05:54 PM
  #786
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Having a trio of Spezza - Turris - Weiss down the middle would be awesome to build around, but Weiss is probably going to make way too much as a UFA to make it worthwhile.

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Old
02-07-2013, 06:02 PM
  #787
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Originally Posted by BankStreetParade View Post
Every one always says player X will go for a bounty and that's almost never the case. Teams don't pay up for slightly above average players, they pay up for the stars and superstars in the league. Look up the last 3 years of trades and you'll find all the comparables you need.
False. "Role Players" go for 2nds all over the place. Looking at the past three deadlines prove this.

See:
- Dominic Moore (for a 2nd rounder)
- Paul Gaustad (1st rounder)
- Johnny Oduya (2nd AND 3rd rounders )
- Andrei Kostitsyn (2nd & 5th)
- Jason Arnott (for Steckel & a 2nd)
- Dustin Penner (1st + 3rd + Teubert)
- Chris Campoli (2nd rounder)
- Brad Boyes (2nd rounder)
- Ian White (2nd rounder)
- Chris Kelly (2nd rounder)
- Steve Staios (3rd rounder)
- Andrew Alberts (3rd rounder)
- Joe Corvo (2nd rounder + spare parts)
- Raffi Torres (2nd rounder + spare part)
- Eric Belanger (2nd rounder)
- Andy Sutton (2nd rounder)
- Matt Cullen (2nd rounder)
- Jordan Leopold (2nd rounder)

... and not a single established star in the bunch. I think there's enough precedent there to prove that 2nd rounders get tossed around for role players / 3rd liners/ 4-5-6 defencemen all the time, which was steffeG's point.

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Old
02-07-2013, 06:24 PM
  #788
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Originally Posted by BankStreetParade View Post
I think the market for Weiss is most likely an average prospect plus a second rounder at most. Upcoming UFAs off to slow starts rarely garner too much return. I would think one of Prince or Hoffman plus the draft pick would seal the deal, assuming the Panthers don't want salary coming back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
False. "Role Players" go for 2nds all over the place. Looking at the past three deadlines prove this.

See:
- Dominic Moore (for a 2nd rounder)
- Paul Gaustad (1st rounder)
- Johnny Oduya (2nd AND 3rd rounders )
- Andrei Kostitsyn (2nd & 5th)
- Jason Arnott (for Steckel & a 2nd)
- Dustin Penner (1st + 3rd + Teubert)
- Chris Campoli (2nd rounder)
- Brad Boyes (2nd rounder)
- Ian White (2nd rounder)
- Chris Kelly (2nd rounder)
- Steve Staios (3rd rounder)
- Andrew Alberts (3rd rounder)
- Joe Corvo (2nd rounder + spare parts)
- Raffi Torres (2nd rounder + spare part)
- Eric Belanger (2nd rounder)
- Andy Sutton (2nd rounder)
- Matt Cullen (2nd rounder)
- Jordan Leopold (2nd rounder)

... and not a single established star in the bunch. I think there's enough precedent there to prove that 2nd rounders get tossed around for role players / 3rd liners/ 4-5-6 defencemen all the time, which was steffeG's point.
No, what you did is prove my point. Look at what I said would be an approximate value for Weiss. If you want comparables check out these trades:
  • Mike Ribeiro for Cody Eakin and 2012 second round pick
  • Antoine Vermette for Curtis McElhinney, 2012 second round pick and 2013 fifth round pick
  • Kris Versteeg for 2012 third round pick and 2012 or 2013 second round pick
  • Mike Fisher for 2012 first round pick and 2012 third round pick (Fisher has slightly higher value than Weiss in my opinion as he's considered to be a star)
  • Andrew Ladd for Ivan Vishnevskiy and 2011 second round pick

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Old
02-07-2013, 06:31 PM
  #789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BankStreetParade View Post
No, what you did is prove my point. Look at what I said would be an approximate value for Weiss. If you want comparables check out these trades:
  • Mike Ribeiro for Cody Eakin and 2012 second round pick
  • Antoine Vermette for Curtis McElhinney, 2012 second round pick and 2013 fifth round pick
  • Kris Versteeg for 2012 third round pick and 2012 or 2013 second round pick
  • Mike Fisher for 2012 first round pick and 2012 third round pick (Fisher has slightly higher value than Weiss in my opinion as he's considered to be a star)
  • Andrew Ladd for Ivan Vishnevskiy and 2011 second round pick
Except for the fact that none of these guys were impending UFAs that season.

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Old
02-07-2013, 06:39 PM
  #790
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Originally Posted by Iamok View Post
Except for the fact that none of these guys were impending UFAs that season.
Impending UFAs would have less value which only serves to strengthen my argument.

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Old
02-07-2013, 07:04 PM
  #791
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Originally Posted by BankStreetParade View Post
Impending UFAs would have less value which only serves to strengthen my argument.
Oh snap, that's my bad. I thought your point was the opposite for some reason.

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Old
02-07-2013, 09:18 PM
  #792
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Originally Posted by BankStreetParade View Post
No, what you did is prove my point. Look at what I said would be an approximate value for Weiss. If you want comparables check out these trades:
  • Mike Ribeiro for Cody Eakin and 2012 second round pick
  • Antoine Vermette for Curtis McElhinney, 2012 second round pick and 2013 fifth round pick
  • Kris Versteeg for 2012 third round pick and 2012 or 2013 second round pick
  • Mike Fisher for 2012 first round pick and 2012 third round pick (Fisher has slightly higher value than Weiss in my opinion as he's considered to be a star)
  • Andrew Ladd for Ivan Vishnevskiy and 2011 second round pick
1) the Versteeg trade was for a 1st and a 3rd, not a 2nd & 3rd.
2) wait, what are we even arguing, here?

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Old
02-07-2013, 09:22 PM
  #793
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
1) the Versteeg trade was for a 1st and a 3rd, not a 2nd & 3rd.
2) wait, what are we even arguing, here?
I said that Weiss was most likely worth a package centered around a prospect like Prince or Hoffman and a second round pick. And then someone else said we would have to pay a lot more. Then I brought to light that trade values are consistently lower than people perceive (HF misconception #1 I guess you could call it) and I produced some examples.

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Old
02-07-2013, 10:15 PM
  #794
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Originally Posted by BankStreetParade View Post
No, what you did is prove my point. Look at what I said would be an approximate value for Weiss. If you want comparables check out these trades:
  • Mike Ribeiro for Cody Eakin and 2012 second round pick
  • Antoine Vermette for Curtis McElhinney, 2012 second round pick and 2013 fifth round pick
  • Kris Versteeg for 2012 third round pick and 2012 or 2013 second round pick
  • Mike Fisher for 2012 first round pick and 2012 third round pick (Fisher has slightly higher value than Weiss in my opinion as he's considered to be a star)
  • Andrew Ladd for Ivan Vishnevskiy and 2011 second round pick
Since when has Mike Fisher ever been considered a star?

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Old
02-07-2013, 10:17 PM
  #795
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Originally Posted by Northern Neighbour View Post
Since when has Mike Fisher ever been considered a star?
clearly you are not from Peterborough

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Old
02-07-2013, 10:21 PM
  #796
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Originally Posted by BankStreetParade View Post
I said that Weiss was most likely worth a package centered around a prospect like Prince or Hoffman and a second round pick. And then someone else said we would have to pay a lot more. Then I brought to light that trade values are consistently lower than people perceive (HF misconception #1 I guess you could call it) and I produced some examples.
Oh, ok.

Well, considering that Weiss is better than, literally, any player either you or I mentioned on our lists, I'd hazard to guess he'd be worth more than what those lesser players got. If they all got 2nd rounders and such, Weiss is worth considerably more. Worth WAY more than Prince or Hoffman + a 2nd straight-up. We'd need a better prospect, or add something.

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Old
02-07-2013, 10:50 PM
  #797
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Shoulda traded Michalek while he was good.

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Old
02-08-2013, 12:27 AM
  #798
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
Oh, ok.

Well, considering that Weiss is better than, literally, any player either you or I mentioned on our lists, I'd hazard to guess he'd be worth more than what those lesser players got. If they all got 2nd rounders and such, Weiss is worth considerably more. Worth WAY more than Prince or Hoffman + a 2nd straight-up. We'd need a better prospect, or add something.
You consider Weiss to be a better player than Ribeiro? I'd put them basically in the same category of player. Slight edge offensively to Ribeiro. Slight edge defensively to Weiss. So I would basically say that the market value for Weiss was set by the Ribeiro trade. But given that he's a UFA and is off to a slow start, I suggest that his value is actually slightly diminished as of today.

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Old
02-08-2013, 12:32 AM
  #799
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Originally Posted by Northern Neighbour View Post
Since when has Mike Fisher ever been considered a star?
A 20+ goal, former Selke runner-up noted for his excellent two-way game is not a star? I know people like the guys who score 100+ points a year but there are other stars in the league.

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Old
02-08-2013, 12:52 AM
  #800
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Shoulda traded Michalek while he was good.
I remember people saying that Michalek wasn't a bi-product of Spezza last year. LOL

Anyway...there was no reason to lose that game. Karlsson is great but he can't carry this team by himself. We need Spezza back...or at least a stop-gap that can help.

Please get O'Reilly or Weiss.

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