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Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens vs. Caps - Oates is hilarious

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Old
02-07-2013, 09:11 PM
  #51
IcedCapp
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
I don't see how Jeffrey is a better option than Boychuk on Geno's line.

Seems to me Boychuk has as much skill and hockey sense, with the added bonus of being much quicker.
I dunno, but at this point I wish Shero would trade anyone - anyone- to get a winger on that line that would allow one +/- thread after a big win to go without it turning into a dissertation of the issues with Malkin's 5-on-5 play.

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02-07-2013, 09:13 PM
  #52
KIRK
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
No carousel there. The line hasn't scored 5 on 5 in any of Boychuk's games with the Pens, and I hate the signal that our own products get scratched even after playing as well as Jeffrey did there while a waiver pickup gets all the tickets despite being fundamentally nothing like what is needed for the line.

Not faulting Boychuck's effort or anything, but it just... doesn't... work.
Don't say that too loudly. Boychuk's effort is what's important for the 2nd line.

And, yes, it doesn't work for reasons that should be obvious.

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02-07-2013, 09:14 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
So did Steve Sullivan. Problem is a smallish guy like that forces Geno and Neal to play away from and not to their strengths.
My argument isn't to keep Boychuk there regardless of who's added to the lineup, but as it stands right now, I don't see how Jeffrey's a better option.

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Old
02-07-2013, 09:14 PM
  #54
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Oh, what a win against the Capitals! Pens - Caps 5-2!

+ Power play
+ Sid, 1+2!
+ Geno, 1+2!
+ Second period
+ Real Deal, 1+1!

- first period
- third period
- no Glass vs Ovechkin

LGP!

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Old
02-07-2013, 09:15 PM
  #55
KIRK
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
I dunno, but at this point I wish Shero would trade anyone - anyone- to get a winger on that line that would allow one +/- thread after a big win to go without it turning into a dissertation of the issues with Malkin's 5-on-5 play.


I'm watching what Malkin is doing. After he scored the goal and especially after it got out of hand, he was attacking. But, most of the time, it's like he's going out of his way to cover defensively in a way that he never would (or needed to) with Kunitz (or Talbot or Malone). And, that 'passive' approach just flows on through to his entire game. There's been no 'attack' at 5 on 5 until the game got out of hand today.

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Old
02-07-2013, 09:16 PM
  #56
Le Magnifique 66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
I dunno, but at this point I wish Shero would trade anyone - anyone- to get a winger on that line that would allow one +/- thread after a big win to go without it turning into a dissertation of the issues with Malkin's 5-on-5 play.
Agreed, we need a winger there is no hiding that so just get it done

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Old
02-07-2013, 09:17 PM
  #57
KIRK
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
My argument isn't to keep Boychuk there regardless of who's added to the lineup, but as it stands right now, I don't see how Jeffrey's a better option.
That's not unreasonable. It's a subjective debate, like a choice between death by hanging or death by firing squad for the second line.

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02-07-2013, 09:17 PM
  #58
IcedCapp
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post


I'm watching what Malkin is doing. After he scored the goal and especially after it got out of hand, he was attacking. But, most of the time, it's like he's going out of his way to cover defensively in a way that he never would (or needed to) with Kunitz (or Talbot or Malone).
I know what the issues are, and I'm not disagreeing. There are a lot of things I want to see happen with this team - no, I'm lying, only 3 (true 1st liner for Sid, guy who can win puck battles for Geno, Dupuis to 3rd line), but everrrrry +/- thread turns into this.

I just wanna laugh at the Caps for an hour and go to bed. Is that too much to ask?!?!

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02-07-2013, 09:18 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
I know what the issues are, and I'm not disagreeing. There are a lot of things I want to see happen with this team - no, I'm lying, only 3 (true 1st liner for Sid, guy who can win puck battles for Geno, Dupuis to 3rd line), but everrrrry +/- thread turns into this.

I just wanna laugh at the Caps for an hour and go to bed. Is that too much to ask?!?!
Uh, didn't you start laughing at them an hour and a half ago like the rest of us?

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02-07-2013, 09:19 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Don't say that too loudly. Boychuk's effort is what's important for the 2nd line.

And, yes, it doesn't work for reasons that should be obvious.
Ugh, it's not just about effort. He's had some good chances to put pucks in on his own, and has set up a few himself, tonight included with a good give and go with Neal.

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Old
02-07-2013, 09:20 PM
  #61
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Changing subjects: Who gets benched when Niskanen is healthy? Not Bortuzzo, not with what he and Engo as a pair are showing. Despres? Very well may be, but you'll pay for a move like that in April.

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02-07-2013, 09:20 PM
  #62
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Uh, didn't you start laughing at them an hour and a half ago like the rest of us?
I did, but then you know... as I was watching the game I realized: Ovechkin has looked somewhat decent (or better) in the two games against the Pens, while looking zombie-like against every other team in the league. That concerned me, a little. Of course, I thought back to pulling their goalie when being down only 2-1 and the backup promptly surrendering 3 more, and I started laughing again, but still.

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Old
02-07-2013, 09:22 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Ugh, it's not just about effort. He's had some good chances to put pucks in on his own, and has set up a few himself, tonight included with a good give and go with Neal.
I don't disagree. It just seems like the standard for that position is so sad. Searching for that one nice play Tangradi would make. Then onto TK, then Glass for a few periods, then back to TK, then Jeffrey for a game, and now Boychuk. I'm glad he has had a few good chances and has set up a few. He still doesn't work there for the same reason Sullivan never did.

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Old
02-07-2013, 09:23 PM
  #64
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+ To finally beating those dirt bags in regulation at home again. First time in 6 years I think.

+ To the fans. That was the loudest game I've been at in a while with lots of Let's Go Pens chants started to try and help the team, I was very happy with that.

+ and - To the Pens Patrol Girls new skirts. I love skirts, but I really like the tight pants too...

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Old
02-07-2013, 09:23 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
I did, but then you know... as I was watching the game I realized: Ovechkin has looked somewhat decent (or better) in the two games against the Pens, while looking zombie-like against every other team in the league. That concerned me, a little. Of course, I thought back to pulling their goalie when being down only 2-1 and the backup promptly surrendering 3 more, and I started laughing again, but still.
So, you're saying Ovechkin distracted you from being laughed out by the end of the game?

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02-07-2013, 09:24 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Changing subjects: Who gets benched when Niskanen is healthy? Not Bortuzzo, not with what he and Engo as a pair are showing. Despres? Very well may be, but you'll pay for a move like that in April.
I think Despres gets benched. DB should rotate Engellang, Bortuzzo and Despres. Make them all play

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Old
02-07-2013, 09:25 PM
  #67
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Ugh, it's not just about effort. He's had some good chances to put pucks in on his own, and has set up a few himself, tonight included with a good give and go with Neal.
Exactly.

I get that he's not a long term solution but if theres no way Shero can bring someone in to fill out his top 2 lines for good, this is the best we have.

He can play with Sid or Geno and makes Sutter a happy man cuz they are friends. So i'm not opposed to giving him a contract at all, in the interim.

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Old
02-07-2013, 09:26 PM
  #68
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There's absolutely no way Despres should sit instead of Bort. I like Bort, but come on. Simon Despres has too much talent to have him be the odd one out.

Bort is never gonna add the type of goals or passes that Despres does. The only edge Bort has on Despres is toughness. I'd rather have the more talented hockey player playing.

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02-07-2013, 09:27 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
My argument isn't to keep Boychuk there regardless of who's added to the lineup, but as it stands right now, I don't see how Jeffrey's a better option.
Because he is much better at supporting Geno and Neal when it comes to possession and defensive positioning. That is pretty much all they need. He acts as a genuine third wheel, he can win 50/50 puck battles and stand his ground down low.

Boychuck tries to be what he should be as a player - a scoring forward. And he has gotten some chances and is unlucky not to have connected. Again - I am not saying that he is not an interesting player for us.

I am saying that we completely KNOW what is integral to a third wheel with Malkin, and Boychuck is just about the furthest you can get from it. I said it from the moment we picked him up and we were told that he'd be tried with Malkin (and yes KIRK, you certainly did too ).

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02-07-2013, 09:27 PM
  #70
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Interesting...

Quote:
Josh Yohe ‏@JoshYohe_Trib
Just spoke with some Washington reporters. They say Ovechkin has never been more angry than he was after tonight's game.
EDIT: Supposedly it's better with video, but here's the transcript, via The Washington Times.

Quote:
What was the reason everything went wrong?
"Second period."

What did you see wrong in that second?
"No play. Didn't play."

Troy [Brouwer] said you guys weren't prepared to play tonight. Do you agree?
"I agree."

Karl [Alzner] said he feels like this team's not playing with enough emotion.
"Yeah, no emotions, nothing. Like you can see how we play third period."

Alex, what has to change?
"Bring the emotion right away. We can play like that, we can start play like, we get a lead and, you know, we stop playing. Second period, stupid penalties. I don't know."

How angry are you that you didn't start the game?...
"Angry enough."
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/...fter-caps-loss

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Old
02-07-2013, 09:27 PM
  #71
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Nice to see Crosby and Malkin rotating over to the LHB on the PP. It opened up so much ice and the Caps were having trouble keeping their box tight and they made numerous mistakes.

Malkin ripping the puck from that side was sick and Crosby feeding Neal several times for great looks on the net was proof they can be just as dangerous over there as well.

I've been wanting Crosby to play below the goal line on that side forever, because it makes it easier for him to feed the puck to Neal. Neal's stick is on the outside and he can one time it easily, as opposed to having the puck come across his body when fed to him on the other side.

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Old
02-07-2013, 09:27 PM
  #72
IcedCapp
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
So, you're saying Ovechkin distracted you from being laughed out by the end of the game?
I don't laugh linearly. Or something. I don't fully enjoy wins until they are over; no lead is safe.

Quote:
Changing subjects: Who gets benched when Niskanen is healthy? Not Bortuzzo, not with what he and Engo as a pair are showing. Despres? Very well may be, but you'll pay for a move like that in April.
Really good question! Probably Despres, though I would prefer it be Bortuzzo. I think Bort will retain his game even if he sits out a few, while I think Despres has to continue to play to grow and improve within his skill set.

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Old
02-07-2013, 09:27 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
I think Despres gets benched. DB should rotate Engellang, Bortuzzo and Despres. Make them all play
As Cole mentioned, the Engo-Borts pair is starting to resemble the Gill-Scuds pair (except Borts can move the puck a little). No way you **** with that. You can't touch Orpik-Martin.

So, basically, it's Despres or Niskanen. Niskanen probably gives you a little more now. But, the way Despres is developing, IMO he'll be the better choice come April when the playoffs start.

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02-07-2013, 09:28 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
I don't disagree. It just seems like the standard for that position is so sad. Searching for that one nice play Tangradi would make. Then onto TK, then Glass for a few periods, then back to TK, then Jeffrey for a game, and now Boychuk. I'm glad he has had a few good chances and has set up a few. He still doesn't work there for the same reason Sullivan never did.
I'm not the "search for a bright light" type of guy when it comes to player performance. That's for people who think Tangradi will become a top six forward anywhere. Ever.

My only argument with the Sully thing is that that line looked really good, even 5 on 5 during the first quarter of the season. The only thing that ended up changing was Sully started to show signs of being really small AND old.

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Old
02-07-2013, 09:29 PM
  #75
IcedCapp
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Interesting...
Reading through some stuff on the Caps board, it seems like this is related to him not starting the game, not the loss.

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