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All Encompassing Winger Acquisition Thread | Part II: "The Winger Mystery Deepens"

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02-07-2013, 10:45 PM
  #851
mpp9
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
TK has less value around the league than Dupuis or Cooke.
He's expendable with two top 6 forward acquisitions. Who cares who's worth more than him. Dupuis and Cooke aren't going anywhere.

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02-07-2013, 10:47 PM
  #852
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Uh, whoever Shero acquires.

I want him to acquire a third wheel for Geno and Neal.

Leave Kunitz with Sid. He's a natural fit with Sid. His limitations on the boards with Geno and Neal showed in the playoffs.

Consider your wait ended.
So Kennedy becomes a fourth liner? Boychuk in the press box to join Tangradi and Jeffrey?

We're not acquiring 2 wingers...nor do we need to. What we need is for some of these young players to pan out.

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02-07-2013, 10:47 PM
  #853
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
I agree, but like I said in the Niskanen thread, I think he's going to be on the trading block sooner rather than later anyway.

I think Niskanen's fate all depends on what the Pens decide to do with Martin and Orpik. If they move one of those 2 guys, we could use Niskanen in our line-up as a more "veteran" guy, because we can't just fill out our roster with kids. And while moving out Nisky's $2.3 million, I don't think that's enough (even if we traded TK too) to pay for an Iginla/Perry, especially with the Cap going down $6million.


So I think we could move Nisky if he brings us back a young player who fills our role of a legit 1st line winger for Crosby, but if we can't do that and want to swing for the fences with an expensive UFA or trade target, I think we'll see one of Orpik/Martin being moved out.

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02-07-2013, 10:47 PM
  #854
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
He's expendable with two top 6 forward acquisitions. Who cares who's worth more than him. Dupuis and Cooke aren't going anywhere.
Getting two top-6 forwards is a lot easier said than done. I keep seeing it thrown around so nonchalantly. It'd probably require one of the D prospects in each case and maybe another player/picks on top of that. Short of Perry or someone similar, I don't want them to blow their wad on a couple guys.

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02-07-2013, 10:47 PM
  #855
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
So Kennedy becomes a fourth liner? Boychuk in the press box to join Tangradi and Jeffrey?

We're not acquiring 2 wingers...nor do we need to. What we need is for some of these young players to pan out.
So what's your lineup for the postseason?

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02-07-2013, 10:47 PM
  #856
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
I agree with this unless BB is traded for a young, locked up, offensive-minded winger. In that case, you'd have Sniper - Crosby and Neal - Malkin locked in together and you'd only have to worry about dirty work guys.

Speaking of: for people who want to move Kunitz to Malkin's line: that sort of leaves the same hole on Sid's line that Geno's line currently has.

Anyone willing to try a Kunitz - Sid - Boychuk and Dupuis - Geno - Neal experiment?
For what? It's not a move that looks towards the playoffs in any way.

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02-07-2013, 10:48 PM
  #857
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
He's expendable with two top 6 forward acquisitions. Who cares who's worth more than him. Dupuis and Cooke aren't going anywhere.
My point is we're not getting what we need by dangling Tyler Kennedy. If we do, we'll get...

...another Tyler Kennedy.

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02-07-2013, 10:49 PM
  #858
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Originally Posted by Funk311 View Post
Hahaha, i love how you slipped that "rumor" in there. that cracked me up. I can just imagine vrbata in his hotel room....."why they trade Ratim?"
Ha.

And just for ****ts , I googled "vrbata penguins" And this came up. http://insidepittsburghsports.com/st...tsburgh/39340/


It's happening.

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02-07-2013, 10:49 PM
  #859
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They were 'in' in the sense that they'd have needed to play like .750 or so hockey the rest of the way to make it.
I'm pretty sure they were no more than 4 points out of a playoff spot at the deadline. I could be wrong though.

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02-07-2013, 10:50 PM
  #860
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
I'm pretty sure they were no more than 4 points out of a playoff spot at the deadline. I could be wrong though.
pretty sure this is correct, and they only fell to 9th the day of, or the day before the deadline. Something like that.

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02-07-2013, 10:50 PM
  #861
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
So what's your lineup for the postseason?
Depends what it will cost for the winger acquisition. It starts with getting that big sniper for Line 1. Everything else takes care of itself and trickles down.

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02-07-2013, 10:51 PM
  #862
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Originally Posted by JimmyTwoTimes View Post
Ha.

And just for ****ts , I googled "vrbata penguins" And this came up. http://insidepittsburghsports.com/st...tsburgh/39340/


It's happening.
clearly they are stealing from this thread

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02-07-2013, 10:52 PM
  #863
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Getting two top-6 forwards is a lot easier said than done. I keep seeing it thrown around so nonchalantly. It'd probably require one of the D prospects in each case and maybe another player/picks on top of that. Short of Perry or someone similar, I don't want them to blow their wad on a couple guys.
We have a stupid amount of expendable assets. More so than at any time during the Crosby/Malkin era. We're a Cup contender. We have a D-corps that is rounding into form, possibly one of them expendable in a deal for one top 6 forward.

It's beyond me how people can complain about dealing a D prospect or 1st round pick we won't miss for a better chance at a Cup this year and moving forward.

I'd actually be more interested in acquiring longterm solutions. But if you have a chance at acquiring a guy like Iginla, you do what it takes.

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02-07-2013, 10:53 PM
  #864
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
So Kennedy becomes a fourth liner? Boychuk in the press box to join Tangradi and Jeffrey?

We're not acquiring 2 wingers...nor do we need to. What we need is for some of these young players to pan out.
If I get Sid and Kunitz a legit second wheel and Geno and Neal a legit third wheel, then Kennedy and Boychuk can go dance the hully gully when the playoffs come for all I care.

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02-07-2013, 10:53 PM
  #865
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
My point is we're not getting what we need by dangling Tyler Kennedy. If we do, we'll get...

...another Tyler Kennedy.
Tyler Kennedy as a 2nd or third piece in a deal? No one said he's a center piece for an upgrade. I sure as hell didn't say that.

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02-07-2013, 10:54 PM
  #866
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
I'm pretty sure they were no more than 4 points out of a playoff spot at the deadline. I could be wrong though.
I honestly don't remember. Senility will do that to you.

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02-07-2013, 10:55 PM
  #867
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Depends what it will cost for the winger acquisition. It starts with getting that big sniper for Line 1. Everything else takes care of itself and trickles down.
Who are you looking for Shero to acquire?

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02-07-2013, 10:55 PM
  #868
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
We have a stupid amount of expendable assets. More so than at any time during the Crosby/Malkin era. We're a Cup contender. We have a D-corps that is rounding into form, possibly one of them expendable in a deal for one top 6 forward.

It's beyond me how people can complain about dealing a D prospect or 1st round pick we won't miss for a better chance at a Cup this year and moving forward.

I'd actually be more interested in acquiring longterm solutions. But if you have a chance at acquiring a guy like Iginla, you do what it takes.
Fair enough, but I'm still in the camp that says they don't need to make any trades up front. Of course, if they can improve the team, I'm all for it, but I certainly don't think it's something that they're in dire need to do.

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02-07-2013, 10:56 PM
  #869
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Originally Posted by turd View Post
Fair enough, but I'm still in the camp that says they don't need to make any trades up front. Of course, if they can improve the team, I'm all for it, but I certainly don't think it's something that they're in dire need to do.
They don't need to make any trades for the playoffs for up front? Just like last year, I suppose . . .

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02-07-2013, 10:56 PM
  #870
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So speaking of Bennett. Is there no possibility he's ready for the NHL this year? If he could be that guy with Crosby, makes Shero's job easier. (Sorry, I don't watch enough WBS games and I know that BB has been injured recently, just returning this weekend, right?)

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02-07-2013, 10:58 PM
  #871
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
They don't need to make any trades for the playoffs for up front? Just like last year, I suppose . . .
Because goal scoring was the problem last post-season?

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02-07-2013, 11:02 PM
  #872
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Fair enough, but I'm still in the camp that says they don't need to make any trades up front. Of course, if they can improve the team, I'm all for it, but I certainly don't think it's something that they're in dire need to do.
It's ok. Sid/Geno have tricked Shero before into thinking his top 6 is great. They're that good. But the postseason is a different animal.

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02-07-2013, 11:02 PM
  #873
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
We have a stupid amount of expendable assets. More so than at any time during the Crosby/Malkin era. We're a Cup contender. We have a D-corps that is rounding into form, possibly one of them expendable in a deal for one top 6 forward.

It's beyond me how people can complain about dealing a D prospect or 1st round pick we won't miss for a better chance at a Cup this year and moving forward.

I'd actually be more interested in acquiring longterm solutions. But if you have a chance at acquiring a guy like Iginla, you do what it takes.
There's a CANYON of difference between selling the farm for Nikolai Kulemin and selling the farm for Jarome Iginla. I hate the first idea, love the second. My argument is if we can land Iggy we won't need Kulemin or anyone else.


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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
If I get Sid and Kunitz a legit second wheel and Geno and Neal a legit third wheel, then Kennedy and Boychuk can go dance the hully gully when the playoffs come for all I care.
And how do you go about getting these two pieces? As I said above, go big and you won't need that second winger. When we made the Hossa deal, we also got Dupuis as a throw-in. Well, we already have Dupuis this time. We just need the Hossa deal 2.0.


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Tyler Kennedy as a 2nd or third piece in a deal? No one said he's a center piece for an upgrade. I sure as hell didn't say that.
If Kennedy is involved, we have to give up a LOT more. We're talking about a third liner who doesn't play on the PP, doesn't play on the PK and is on the smallish side. Yeah, he has a Stanley Cup ring on his resume, but he's not really someone that has much appeal otherwise. Oh and he doesn't have a contract beyond 2013, either.

As throw-ins go, I guarantee that Dupuis or Cooke would have more appeal to other teams. And if they have more appeal, we may have to give up less if we include one of them. Especially since we have to consider that very few (if any) teams will be completely eliminated from playoff contention by the trade deadline. SO, if a team is dealing away a scoring winger because they're selling, they might be interested in a Dupuis or Cooke to provide something else that COULD still keep them in playoff contention. Deals like this happen all the time at the deadline, and I suspect they're more prevalent in a 48-game schedule.

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02-07-2013, 11:02 PM
  #874
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Because goal scoring was the problem last post-season?
Oh, I see. You mean in the one round the Pens actually played against a goalie who leaked like a sieve? How'd the goal scoring go in the second round? Or in 2010, the last time we actually saw a second round, against a team playing great team defense and with great goaltending? Or, for that matter, why did Shero bother to add Hossa in 2008? After all, goal scoring wasn't a problem.

Maybe I'm just obtuse, but I don't see the advantage in having Sid and Geno on the same team for the playoffs if you're not going to exploit it.

I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree.

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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
There's a CANYON of difference between selling the farm for Nikolai Kulemin and selling the farm for Jarome Iginla. I hate the first idea, love the second. My argument is if we can land Iggy we won't need Kulemin or anyone else.




And how do you go about getting these two pieces? As I said above, go big and you won't need that second winger. When we made the Hossa deal, we also got Dupuis as a throw-in. Well, we already have Dupuis this time. We just need the Hossa deal 2.0.




If Kennedy is involved, we have to give up a LOT more. We're talking about a third liner who doesn't play on the PP, doesn't play on the PK and is on the smallish side. Yeah, he has a Stanley Cup ring on his resume, but he's not really someone that has much appeal otherwise. Oh and he doesn't have a contract beyond 2013, either.

As throw-ins go, I guarantee that Dupuis or Cooke would have more appeal to other teams. And if they have more appeal, we may have to give up less if we include one of them. Especially since we have to consider that very few (if any) teams will be completely eliminated from playoff contention by the trade deadline. SO, if a team is dealing away a scoring winger because they're selling, they might be interested in a Dupuis or Cooke to provide something else that COULD still keep them in playoff contention. Deals like this happen all the time at the deadline, and I suspect they're more prevalent in a 48-game schedule.
1. Who's saying to sell the farm for Kulemin? Or, are you saying Maatta and a 2nd is selling the farm?

2. Short of Perry, there's no Hossa 2.0 deal out there.

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02-07-2013, 11:03 PM
  #875
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
So speaking of Bennett. Is there no possibility he's ready for the NHL this year? If he could be that guy with Crosby, makes Shero's job easier. (Sorry, I don't watch enough WBS games and I know that BB has been injured recently, just returning this weekend, right?)
No, he's not ready period -- injury or not. He needs this year to mature. Hopefully, by next year he'll be ready. He still needs to get accustomed to the long season, playoff grind, habits/lifestyle of a pro, become a complete player, and become a more mature person. I am thrilled with his progress, but this fruit isn't quite ripe yet. (Black aces for playoffs, sure: would be a great experience if WBS gets knocked early)


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Anyone willing to try a Kunitz - Sid - Boychuk and Dupuis - Geno - Neal experiment?

Well, it's a good point, and it also brings up the other point some were raising about Boychuk being a better fit than Dustin Jeffrey. Tangradi got a number of games to try to make an impact with Malkin-Neal, and failed. But Jeffrey really only had one game and was improving in this role before being scratched to make room for Boychuk.

I think that both Jeffrey and Boychuk need more time to see what they can do (and I'm ready to turn the page on Tangradi). Jeffrey may need less time because he already is used to our "system", but you can see that as much good as Boychuk is doing, he still has "clicked" yet with Geno and produced anything; and he still seems like he's not exactly sure what to do.

So what I would really like is to get both of these guys in for a couple of games and give each of them opportunities on each of the top-2 lines. For all we know, Boychuk could be a better fit with Sid and Jeffrey a better fit with Geno, or vice-versa. If we have to scratch one of Glass/Adams/Vitale for a couple of games, even though they deserve to play, I think this is an experiment that needs to happen.

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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Will he make a significant impact before Sid and Geno turn 30?
If we draft the right player, then yes. What it also indicates is: perhaps in a "normal" draft, we could trade our 1st for a rental or for a lower-tier guy like Kulemin/Setoguchi. But if we trade our pick this year, it should be part of a package for a Perry/Ryan, or package it with a Dman like Maatta for a stud forward prospect like Coyle or Niederreiter who are more NHL ready than our draftee would be. We could also package our 1st to trade up to get an even better/more NHL-ready player, as well.

But even if no such trade happened, there are guys in this draft who should be ready to play either by next year, or within 1 or 2 years (Max Domi, as an example). And while we all want that winger who can play with Sid & Geno now, we need to keep this team competitive long-term, and have young guys coming into their prime when Sid & Geno become great veterans (even if less offensive productive) like Yzerman, Oates, Messier, Francis and others before them. (i.e. the Detroit model)

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