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The Armchair GM Thread - Part XXXII - Kessel Run Edition

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02-07-2013, 11:06 PM
  #126
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I'd move Schneider in a second for Kessel, anyone suggesting otherwise is a complete homer. He isnt available though, so it's a pointless discussion.

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02-07-2013, 11:32 PM
  #127
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You have to think Washington is desperate right now. If they don't upgrade their goaltending and make a change soon this season is in the toilet. It's not like they're a team in need of a rebuild either... they have the talent to contend right now.

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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Ironically, Lucic has been a frequent no show during the playoffs. In fact, many of the larger "powerforward" types are quiet because of the increased physicality expected of them. Pure snipers like Kessel are meant to be unleashed regardless of whether it is in the regular or post season.

I am not convinced he does run off for a huge pay increase. Kessel is a relatively quiet guy who, despite wanting to win, prefers to be so away from the limelight. He would have that opportunity here by virtue of not being considered among our media focused core. Offer him 6-8 years and I wager we could get him under or around 5.5M. Even at 6M, Kessel is still affordable.
Great post, exactly what I was going to add.

Lucic was a plug in the SCF; the only real impact he had was when Hamhuis hurt himself hip checking him. You don't have to be a brute to do well in the post season. Kessel has done very well in the post season and 15 games is a reasonable sample size when it comes to the playoffs.

I also think Kessel might not chase the money if he got into a good environment like Vancouver. In Boston there were obvious problems, and Toronto has perennially been terrible where he is the only one doing anything.

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02-07-2013, 11:36 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
He's already reporting to the Islanders, so we don't have to worry about that.
What I'm worried about is his effort level that he'd bring to the ice game after game.

And Ballard is playing well right now, so I don't see us moving him unless we're offered something good. (there isn't room for Vis right now)
What about Ballard for Visnovsky? Helps NYI stay at the floor next year, gives them a d-man with upside and rids them of a player that does not want to be in NYI. Visnovsky would really help the Canuck PP - which needs an injection of some kind. If they go into the playoffs with that PP, they are in trouble.

They need a real point man.

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Old
02-07-2013, 11:39 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by StanGrossman View Post
What about Ballard for Visnovsky? Helps NYI stay at the floor next year, gives them a d-man with upside and rids them of a player that does not want to be in NYI. Visnovsky would really help the Canuck PP - which needs an injection of some kind. If they go into the playoffs with that PP, they are in trouble.

They need a real point man.
I wouldn't offer that right now until we see how Vis plays this season.
And even then, I would want more than just an upcoming UFA for Ballard (who has been playing pretty well lately).

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02-07-2013, 11:48 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
I'd move Schneider in a second for Kessel, anyone suggesting otherwise is a complete homer. He isnt available though, so it's a pointless discussion.
There are murmurs going around he might be. While this is all conjecture I do believe the rumors have some legs. Kessel will be going on five years on a team of perpetual failure and may decide to move on. Toronto is not in any position to meaningfully compete until they shore up goaltending and get an actual #1 centre. I could very easily see Nonis opting to do a temporary rebuild and ship out Kessel, Phaneuf and Kulemin for youth, picks and prospects, draft high and build a new core over the next three years. Hard to say if Kessel wants to wait that long. And they absolutely cannot lose him for nothing. The media circus would be a disaster.

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02-08-2013, 01:48 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Could be that I overrate Schneider, but I wouldn't deal him alone for Kessel. Not that I don't think Kessel is better, he is. But because I expect Kessel to cash in as soon as his contract is up, and Schneider seems a more long-term solution for the team. So multiple years of Schneider > 1.5 years of Kessel for me.



Besides, another team would be better able to give up futures for him. The Canucks can't, or really shouldn't, due their lack of quality prospects.
Cory Schneider is going to be a franchise player for the next 10 years imo. That'd give us 16 straight with good to great goaltending. That's too good an opportunity to pass up.

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02-08-2013, 02:09 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Cory Schneider is going to be a franchise player for the next 10 years imo. That'd give us 16 straight with good to great goaltending. That's too good an opportunity to pass up.

It's what I'm thinking as well, but others don't seem to believe it. This guy is so important to the organization, to the franchise, that it's shocking that others don't see it.



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Old
02-08-2013, 09:53 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
I am not convinced he does run off for a huge pay increase. Kessel is a relatively quiet guy who, despite wanting to win, prefers to be so away from the limelight. He would have that opportunity here by virtue of not being considered among our media focused core. Offer him 6-8 years and I wager we could get him under or around 5.5M. Even at 6M, Kessel is still affordable.
1. If you feel Elliotte Friedman is credible (I do), Kessel is pretty much the opposite - he is a person who is "unbothered" by the fishbowl dynamic because he doesn't read the paper or listen to the radio, he just goes out and does his thing. Friedman compared him to the Sedins in this respect and said that when they were approaching UFA not just Toronto but Montreal as well were ready to commit huge amounts of money to attract them because they felt they wouldn't wilt under the pressure.

2. If you don't accept that line of reasoning, how the heck does Phil Kessel (who would instantly become one of the team's top scorers, highest paid players, etc) somehow become exempt from belonging to "our media focused core" - what does that even mean? He might not be seen as the team's leader or figurehead but he would certainly come with high expectations and be given a major role in line with those expectations.

Personally I have no idea how an attempt to re-sign Kessel would go (in this completely bonkers scenario where we've traded for him). I would be he'd test the market, if he's a hot commodity because he functions well under pressure then he'd probably be offered more to play elsewhere, if he wants to take less to stay out of the limelight then I have no idea why anyone would think Vancouver would be the team fitting that description.

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Old
02-08-2013, 12:13 PM
  #134
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Updated Luongo Trade Rankings (!):
  • Washington (!!!!) - Protestations about affodability notwithstanding, that team needs Lou like no other. The proposal: Neuvirth and Forsberg for Luongo and a 3rd
  • Florida (!!!) - This is still a fit for the Canucks. Markstrom is coming on now in the AHL. Theodore, Shore and Petrovic for Lou. Shore's emerging play drops the price for Florida.
  • Tampa (!!!) - Sorry, but why risk a contender on crappy goaltending. Yzerman protestations notwithstanding this team could be so much better - Garon and Connolly for Luongo
  • NYI (!!) - No clue what this team is doing. Nabokov and Niedereiter for Luongo
  • Columbus (!!) - Getting to the point that Bob does not look up to saving a franchise. Would Lou waive to go there? Brassard, Bob and the LA first rounder for Raymond and Luongo
  • Toronto (!!) - No asset fit and Reimer is playing well. Maybe a three way is possible. Kulemin, and a first for Lou. Trade a second rounder for Bishop ship Kulemin to Pittsburgh for a prospect D. Convoluted.
  • New Jersey (!)
  • Phoenix (!) Can't afford Lou's salary but if the team looks ready to move to Quebec, it's a brilliant fit. I wonder if Lou could post a 96% Save percentage with Tippet? Gormley and Smith for Luongo.
  • Edmonton (!) Dubnyk getting it done right now. MPS, Khabi and a first for Lou.

Dropped - Chicago, San Jose


The Off-season 'get me the $#^& out of here' Schneider Trade Rankings
  • Columbus (!!!!!)
  • Phoenix (!!!!)
  • Tampa (!!!!)
  • NYI (!!!)
  • Washington (!!!)
  • Winnipeg (!!) - new
  • Toronto (!)
  • New Jersey (!)
  • Edmonton (!)
  • Minnesota (!) - new
  • Buffalo (!) - new


Last edited by ginner classic: 02-08-2013 at 12:36 PM.
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Old
02-08-2013, 01:34 PM
  #135
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In the Nucks v Wild thread, we were discussing Heatley being bought out, Vadim pointed out that he'd be a good fit on the PP with the Sedins. What do you guys think? On a cheap contract and we know how much Gillis loves his reclamation projects.

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02-08-2013, 01:39 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natureboy1235 View Post
In the Nucks v Wild thread, we were discussing Heatley being bought out, Vadim pointed out that he'd be a good fit on the PP with the Sedins. What do you guys think? On a cheap contract and we know how much Gillis loves his reclamation projects.
I would rather give Jensen a chance to make the team than sign Heatley.
He's not the same player he used to be, and he'll never be that good again.

His skating is bad, he isn't physical despite his size, and he's not good defensively.

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02-08-2013, 01:40 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natureboy1235 View Post
In the Nucks v Wild thread, we were discussing Heatley being bought out, Vadim pointed out that he'd be a good fit on the PP with the Sedins. What do you guys think? On a cheap contract and we know how much Gillis loves his reclamation projects.
I dont want his attitude/work ethic anywhere near this team. Rather find another Hansen or Higgins than sign that waste of space.

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02-08-2013, 01:46 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edler Von Gud View Post
I dont want his attitude/work ethic anywhere near this team. Rather find another Hansen or Higgins than sign that waste of space.
This. Heatley appears to be a heartless jerk. Don't want him.

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02-08-2013, 01:53 PM
  #139
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wrong thread

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02-08-2013, 01:53 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natureboy1235 View Post
In the Nucks v Wild thread, we were discussing Heatley being bought out, Vadim pointed out that he'd be a good fit on the PP with the Sedins. What do you guys think? On a cheap contract and we know how much Gillis loves his reclamation projects.
Don't want him anywhere near the Canucks.

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02-08-2013, 01:57 PM
  #141
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He's not the same player he used to be, and he'll never be that good again.


But he was good once... as he ever was.

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02-08-2013, 02:01 PM
  #142
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Posted this in the main Luongo thread, wondering what other Canucks fans think.

To Van
- Weiss
- Goc
- Petrovic
- Clemmensen

To Florida

- Luongo
- Connauton
- 2nd or 3rd rounder
- conditional 1st (if Canucks make SCF)

Goc fills a hole at 3rd line centre. Weiss is another versatile forward and depth for the playoffs.

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02-08-2013, 02:02 PM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamtherunner View Post
Posted this in the main Luongo thread, wondering what other Canucks fans think.

To Van
- Weiss
- Goc
- Petrovic
- Clemmensen

To Florida

- Luongo
- Connauton
- 2nd or 3rd rounder
- conditional 1st (if Canucks make SCF)

Goc fills a hole at 3rd line centre. Weiss is another versatile forward and depth for the playoffs.
Florida wont be trading more than 1 center, they don't have the depth to replace Weiss AND Goc.

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02-08-2013, 02:06 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by iamtherunner View Post
Posted this in the main Luongo thread, wondering what other Canucks fans think.

To Van
- Weiss
- Goc
- Petrovic
- Clemmensen

To Florida

- Luongo
- Connauton
- 2nd or 3rd rounder
- conditional 1st (if Canucks make SCF)

Goc fills a hole at 3rd line centre. Weiss is another versatile forward and depth for the playoffs.
Not interested.

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02-08-2013, 02:11 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
1. If you feel Elliotte Friedman is credible (I do), Kessel is pretty much the opposite - he is a person who is "unbothered" by the fishbowl dynamic because he doesn't read the paper or listen to the radio, he just goes out and does his thing. Friedman compared him to the Sedins in this respect and said that when they were approaching UFA not just Toronto but Montreal as well were ready to commit huge amounts of money to attract them because they felt they wouldn't wilt under the pressure.
His mannerisms suggest otherwise. While I do believe the media sensationalizes his supposedly "shyness." He does not appear comfortable when badgered by the press. That does not he is necessarily bothered by it, more a preference. Of course this is conjecture on my part and merely an observation. I also find the Sedin comparison out of place. Neither Daniel or Henrik express a withdrawn tendency Kessel is known for.

Quote:
2. If you don't accept that line of reasoning, how the heck does Phil Kessel (who would instantly become one of the team's top scorers, highest paid players, etc) somehow become exempt from belonging to "our media focused core" - what does that even mean? He might not be seen as the team's leader or figurehead but he would certainly come with high expectations and be given a major role in line with those expectations.
Daniel, Henrik, Kesler and Luongo all hold precedence during any media scrum. Therefore, Kessel would sink beneath the limelight by simple virtue of not being the immediate draw. Obvious exception are to come based on game results and whatnot but more often than not, he is not going to garner anywhere close to the attention he currently does in Toronto. A good example of this is James Neal. He may have had the quietest forty goal season this past decade, and all because the media is Crosby centric.

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02-08-2013, 02:17 PM
  #146
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Florida wont be trading more than 1 center, they don't have the depth to replace Weiss AND Goc.
Yeah the more I think about it this is true. I'd like something around Goc, Petrovic, Clemmensen and someone like Shore.

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02-08-2013, 02:23 PM
  #147
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This. Heatley appears to be a heartless jerk. Don't want him.
It's so sad...he used to be one of my favorite players, up until about his last season in Ottawa.

Agreed with the poster who would rather give Jensen a chance. Methinks AV will be all over that, too - never seen him as excited over a prospect as he has been about Jensen.

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02-08-2013, 02:35 PM
  #148
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Yeah the more I think about it this is true. I'd like something around Goc, Petrovic, Clemmensen and someone like Shore.
Like I said, they cant afford to trade two centers. Shore is being used a top 9 center this season.

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02-08-2013, 02:49 PM
  #149
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Do you make a move for Ovechkin if you're Gillis?

If you're Mike Gillis do you make a move for Ovechkin?
And how can we fit him into our team?

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02-08-2013, 02:50 PM
  #150
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I don't, that cap hit is scary

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