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02-07-2013, 02:47 PM
  #26
MPStoEberletoHall
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Originally Posted by veganhunter View Post
I agree but if Trouba reaches his full potential we get hosed. Trouba alone would be enough in that case never mind adding a guy with back to back almost 30 goals season who just so happens to be our captain. If he becomes 1/2 or 3/4 the player he could be then yes I'd say good deal.
And if Yak reaches his full potential he's a 50 goal scorer and a 90 point guy....? So what's your point?

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Old
02-07-2013, 02:59 PM
  #27
pegcity
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The Jets won`t be trading Kane or Trouba.


Jets realistical tradeable players include:
Ron Hainsey
Kyle Wellwood
Grant Glitsome
Antti Miettinen

Maybe
Antropov
Ponikorovsky

Others are very unlikely to be traded

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Old
02-07-2013, 03:21 PM
  #28
Trafalgar Law
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pegcity View Post
The Jets won`t be trading Kane or Trouba.


Jets realistical tradeable players include:
Ron Hainsey
Kyle Wellwood
Grant Glitsome
Antti Miettinen

Maybe
Antropov
Ponikorovsky

Others are very unlikely to be traded
So basically the Jets' garbage. Seriously the only untouchables on that roster are Kane and Bogosian, with Enstrom, Byfuglien, Trouba, Schiefele, and Ladd being very valuable as well. The rest of the team would certainly be traded if they got something they need in return

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02-07-2013, 03:24 PM
  #29
veganhunter
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Originally Posted by bhay1987 View Post
He did say if he reaches his full potential. Not sure how much you've read up on Trouba on the prospects board, but the way he's developing his ceiling is getting higher and higher. If you have already and disagree, I apologize.

Something tells me that "help" sign is just you looking at their draft spot and that one is in the NHL and one isn't though.
Exactly.

My point was if Trouba becomes the Weber like player many are projecting he could be and Yakupov becomes the Kovalchuk kind of player people are predicting, that's a tough decision. Now toss in a guy who just missed 30 goals two years in a row, pretty lopsided. Yakupov is playing and producing in the NHL so he has more value right now but Trouba is is exceeding expectations and is on the right track as well. Also Yakupov playing in the NHL now and Trouba not there yet is really not a big deal to me. You don't see many 18 year old D step right in after being drafted as the adjustment to the NHL at that position is way bigger than for a forward.

So IMO not worth it for us. Granted Trouba could bust (knock on wood) but the way he is playing in college which is typically dominated by older players as an 18 year old freshman it doesn't look likely.

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02-07-2013, 03:25 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by MPStoEberletoHall View Post
And if Yak reaches his full potential he's a 50 goal scorer and a 90 point guy....? So what's your point?
If they both reach their full potential the difference between them is not Andrew Ladd was my point.

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Old
02-07-2013, 03:27 PM
  #31
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As an Oiler fan i'd do Trouba + Ladd for Yakupov but I can see why Jet's fans wouldn't, Oil would need to add a little something extra.

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02-07-2013, 03:50 PM
  #32
MPStoEberletoHall
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Originally Posted by veganhunter View Post
Exactly.

My point was if Trouba becomes the Weber like player many are projecting he could be and Yakupov becomes the Kovalchuk kind of player people are predicting, that's a tough decision. Now toss in a guy who just missed 30 goals two years in a row, pretty lopsided. Yakupov is playing and producing in the NHL so he has more value right now but Trouba is is exceeding expectations and is on the right track as well. Also Yakupov playing in the NHL now and Trouba not there yet is really not a big deal to me. You don't see many 18 year old D step right in after being drafted as the adjustment to the NHL at that position is way bigger than for a forward.

So IMO not worth it for us. Granted Trouba could bust (knock on wood) but the way he is playing in college which is typically dominated by older players as an 18 year old freshman it doesn't look likely.
Uh who has compared trouba to Weber..? And you do know Yakopov has been compared to a Bure clone right?

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02-07-2013, 04:05 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by magnoctophas View Post
So basically the Jets' garbage. Seriously the only untouchables on that roster are Kane and Bogosian, with Enstrom, Byfuglien, Trouba, Schiefele, and Ladd being very valuable as well. The rest of the team would certainly be traded if they got something they need in return
The Jets are patiently building around their young core (mentioned mostly above) via the draft. They will probably mainly just piecemeal off some veterans at the deadline in exchange for draft picks if they are not in the playoff hunt, and especially this year given their high numbers of expiring UFA contracts (the players that were named by the poster that you initially quoted). Expecting offers of anything other than our "garbage" is unrealistic, FYI. Given that the Oilers are equally as unlikely to be in the hunt this season, these teams are not good trading partners as such, unless for some reason you want to give up a bunch of picks for our expiring UFA contracts that is. If so, fire away.

The Jets aren't in a position to be offering up prospects like Trouba at this time.


Last edited by Gump Hasek: 02-07-2013 at 04:11 PM.
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Old
02-07-2013, 04:26 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by MPStoEberletoHall View Post
Uh who has compared trouba to Weber..? And you do know Yakopov has been compared to a Bure clone right?
Have you read the prospect page? I was surprised myself hearing what's one of the guys on here from Michigan that watch him live. Great skater, plays extremely physical, a real mean streak, averaging 2/3 of a ppg, big slap shot, great passer, decent but not great offensive instincts. His scouting reports at the draft had him as more of a stay at home defenseman, but if you watched him at the world juniors (where he was the tournament's top defenseman) or at Michigan you'd know he's rapidly improved his offensive game. Still has to get over making some bad decisions as far as trying for the big play too often, but that's why people use the term ceiling. If he can think the NHL game at a high level it's not a reach at all to think that paired with the right partner he could become a dominating player in his own end with limited offensive potential... but with a howitzer of a shot from the point.

That said, it's never a sure thing so taking into account Winnipeg's depth at RD and lack of top end scoring, I'd probably do the deal. Ask some people who know him better than the average Jets fan and you'll be impressed.

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Old
02-07-2013, 04:27 PM
  #35
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[QUOTE=MPStoEberletoHall;59210477]My buddy who's a jets fan proposed this deal to me. Pretty interesting I think


To Wpg:
Yakupov
Whitney
Eager
Peckham
3rd round pick 2014


To Edm:
Trouba
Ladd
Thorburn
Sutter
Kasdorf
QUOTE]

I don't see this big of a deal happening, Yak Whitney and something else for Ladd and Trouba I can see. But it WIN needs offense Hemsky is healthy and he could really add some offense to you guys. He is only 29 also and his health issues are behind him. What would be fair for Hemsky.

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Old
02-07-2013, 04:27 PM
  #36
veganhunter
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Originally Posted by MPStoEberletoHall View Post
Uh who has compared trouba to Weber..? And you do know Yakopov has been compared to a Bure clone right?
The media. Yes I'm aware of that but I'm trying to be realistic here, if we are going down that road coaches from the US Development compared him to Chris Pronger. I was using the comparisons to make a point which you understood but you obviously want to get into a pissing match, so I'll leave it at that. Neither the Oilers or Jets are going to risk making that trade.

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Old
02-07-2013, 04:53 PM
  #37
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Rather than a convoluted 10 piece deal with tons of depth pieces, let's say it's essentially Yakupov for Ladd + Trouba. There is no way I'd even consider that as a Jets fan.

Ladd is a decent captain, plays with some grit and has almost scored 30 goals the last two seasons - had he hit 30 goals both years everyone would be calling him the most underrated player in the league but 29-goal scorer doesn't have the same ring to it.

I'm also a huge Trouba fan and wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Oiler fans are hanging their heads years from now when Trouba is a top defenseman in the league and Yakupov is just another under-sized one-dimensional flashy winger. Basically, I think Yakupov was one of the weakest first overall picks in recent memory and Trouba was an absolute steal at 9th overall. The difference between them, even considering Trouba may play out his college career before he plays in the NHL, is not even close to Ladd. I'm not even sure I'd trade Trouba for Yakupov straight up, I'm that happy with the Jets getting Trouba and the way he dominated the WJC (and the way Yakupov was completely shutdown, frustrated and selfish at the WJC).

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02-07-2013, 04:58 PM
  #38
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The Jets can't afford to give up Kasdorf this easily. No deal.


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Old
02-07-2013, 05:01 PM
  #39
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Basically, I think Yakupov was one of the weakest first overall picks in recent memory
He was actually the most unanimous 1st overall since Crosby. There's actually nothing that suggested he was a weak 1st overall pick, other than being drafted by the Oilers.

Quote:
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I'm not even sure I'd trade Trouba for Yakupov straight up
That's interesting. I guess there's no point of trying to trade then.

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02-07-2013, 05:21 PM
  #40
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He was actually the most unanimous 1st overall since Crosby. There's actually nothing that suggested he was a weak 1st overall pick, other than being drafted by the Oilers.
Most unanimous 1st overall pick since Crosby - not that I agree with that statement at all - makes no direct implication of his greatness just that last years draft was lacking in high-end offensive talent, which typically gets picked over even the most elite defensive prospects. Also, I displayed no underlying hatred of the Oilers in my post - I think he was a weak 1st overall pick because I don't think he'll be a dominant player in the NHL, not because he was drafted by the Oilers. RNH, Hall, Tavares, Stamkos and P. Kane are and always will be much better NHL players than I think Yakupov will ever be. That's just my opinion and it has nothing to do with the team that drafted him. Get over the "everyone is against us" mentality.

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Old
02-07-2013, 07:02 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by veganhunter View Post
The media. Yes I'm aware of that but I'm trying to be realistic here, if we are going down that road coaches from the US Development compared him to Chris Pronger. I was using the comparisons to make a point which you understood but you obviously want to get into a pissing match, so I'll leave it at that. Neither the Oilers or Jets are going to risk making that trade.
I was very impressed with Trouba at the WJC's, but I would bet everything I own that he will never be better than Chris Pronger.

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Old
02-07-2013, 10:49 PM
  #42
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I was very impressed with Trouba at the WJC's, but I would bet everything I own that he will never be better than Chris Pronger.
Probably a good bet. Few defensemen were ever as dominant in the playoffs as Pronger in the mid to late 2000's. Expecting a HOF player because of similar skill set is setting yourself up for disappointment.

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Old
02-07-2013, 11:09 PM
  #43
veganhunter
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I was very impressed with Trouba at the WJC's, but I would bet everything I own that he will never be better than Chris Pronger.
Same and I wasn't saying that. Apparently Kovalchuk wasn't a realistic enough comparison for Yakupov he mentioned he has been compared to Bure so I mentioned Trouba has been compared to Pronger. There is practically 0 chance either players career is even close to Bure or Pronger.

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02-08-2013, 01:30 AM
  #44
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Same and I wasn't saying that. Apparently Kovalchuk wasn't a realistic enough comparison for Yakupov he mentioned he has been compared to Bure so I mentioned Trouba has been compared to Pronger. There is practically 0 chance either players career is even close to Bure or Pronger.
I'll agree with you that is too high a standard for either player to reasonably expect them to match. Although, I'd like to be optimistic and say Yakupov will be a good bet to put up more points than Bure during the duration of his career, but I definitely don't expect the highs to be anywhere near as high as Bure's were. I really doubt Yakupov will be hitting the 60 goal or 100+ pt mark at any point in his career. Honestly I'd be pretty happy with Yakupov if he had as many 30+ goal seasons as Bure had 50+ goal seasons.

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02-08-2013, 01:52 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by veganhunter View Post
I agree but if Trouba reaches his full potential we get hosed. Trouba alone would be enough in that case never mind adding a guy with back to back almost 30 goals season who just so happens to be our captain. If he becomes 1/2 or 3/4 the player he could be then yes I'd say good deal.
Ya and if Yak hits his potential, there's nothing you could put together that gets him... What's your point?


Edit: MPStoEberletoHall beat me to it

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Old
02-08-2013, 01:24 PM
  #46
pegcity
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Originally Posted by magnoctophas View Post
So basically the Jets' garbage. Seriously the only untouchables on that roster are Kane and Bogosian, with Enstrom, Byfuglien, Trouba, Schiefele, and Ladd being very valuable as well. The rest of the team would certainly be traded if they got something they need in return
Oh, they're all tradeable. But since we are using your logic, I'll trade Kane for Malkin and Crosby.

Winnipeg won't be trading prospects or young talent. This isn't True North's philosophy. The list in my previous post is realistically the players who could be moved this season unless things get really bad.

/end thread

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02-08-2013, 07:48 PM
  #47
veganhunter
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Ya and if Yak hits his potential, there's nothing you could put together that gets him... What's your point?


Edit: MPStoEberletoHall beat me to it
If they both hit their full potential the difference is not Ladd.

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Old
02-09-2013, 02:22 AM
  #48
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Jets dressing room doesn't do this.

Even if the value is there, trading the captain and a potential future captain and Thorburn for Whitney, Eager and Yakupov seems like a dressing room issue

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02-09-2013, 02:50 AM
  #49
MPStoEberletoHall
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Jets dressing room doesn't do this.

Even if the value is there, trading the captain and a potential future captain and Thorburn for Whitney, Eager and Yakupov seems like a dressing room issue
Are you kidding? How does Yak seem like a issue in the locker room?

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Old
02-09-2013, 05:57 AM
  #50
Flair Hay
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Are you kidding? How does Yak seem like a issue in the locker room?
Read more carefully, he's talking about the Jets trading Ladd.

Yeesh.

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