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Old
02-07-2013, 05:44 PM
  #26
veganhunter
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Only way Kane is going to Montreal is if Galchenyuk is coming back IMO.

Byfuglien's problems actually weren't really in his own end. He mostly struggled in transition, which in the short sample we have seen this season looks much improved.

The OP is awful basically Kane + 1st for Eller + Bourque + 2nd. To me Byfuglien and Subban are almost a wash. Byfuglien is more dynamic offensively he's in the top 5 in the league in that regard. Subban has a more well rounded game and that maybe outweighs Byfuglien's offence but not enough to make the first part of the deal worth it for us.

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Old
02-07-2013, 05:56 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by veganhunter View Post
Only way Kane is going to Montreal is if Galchenyuk is coming back IMO.

Byfuglien's problems actually weren't really in his own end. He mostly struggled in transition, which in the short sample we have seen this season looks much improved.

The OP is awful basically Kane + 1st for Eller + Bourque + 2nd. To me Byfuglien and Subban are almost a wash. Byfuglien is more dynamic offensively he's in the top 5 in the league in that regard. Subban has a more well rounded game and that maybe outweighs Byfuglien's offence but not enough to make the first part of the deal worth it for us.
Are you kidding me ? Subban is worth Kane. He is a top pairing Dman, which Byfuglien is not. If you want to make that type of assessment, I guess you would think Kaberle has a good trade value... Byfuglien is terrible on Defense.

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Old
02-07-2013, 05:57 PM
  #28
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The Jets don't need garbages !!!

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Old
02-07-2013, 05:59 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
Are you kidding me ? Subban is worth Kane. He is a top pairing Dman, which Byfuglien is not. If you want to make that type of assessment, I guess you would think Kaberle has a good trade value... Byfuglien is terrible on Defense.
WOW. There is so much wrong with this. The guy who was 2nd in D man points while only playing 66 games is not a top pairing D-man?

Kane is worth Subban?

Buff is terrible at D?

You must be one of the fans that called 911 when Chara hit Patches.

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Old
02-07-2013, 06:13 PM
  #30
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Most unrealistic one-sided proposal I've seen in awhile.

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Old
02-07-2013, 06:18 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Seanahue View Post
WOW. There is so much wrong with this. The guy who was 2nd in D man points while only playing 66 games is not a top pairing D-man?

Kane is worth Subban?

Buff is terrible at D?

You must be one of the fans that called 911 when Chara hit Patches.
Byfuglien has a hard shot and is physical and racks up the points, but it doesn't mean he's a good Dman in his zone.

PS I agree that it's a bad proposal.

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Old
02-07-2013, 06:38 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Seanahue View Post
WOW. There is so much wrong with this. The guy who was 2nd in D man points while only playing 66 games is not a top pairing D-man?

Kane is worth Subban?

Buff is terrible at D?

You must be one of the fans that called 911 when Chara hit Patches.
Yep Kane is worth Subban maybe less. Roughly the same age potential they are a lot closer than Byfuglien is to Subban in value.

Look what Goligoski was worth now compare Subban and Goligoski you have your answer.

Byfuglien has played more as a forward than as a dman that tells a lot about the hawks confidence in him being a dman. We made the same mistake with Streit but he is not great defensively either.

He is actually better than people think in his own zone but he's still got a lot to improve and i think he pretty much hit his ceiling.

I just love those fans were the number of points equals how good you are. Ryder scored 30 goals or plus 4 times in his career yet still he is considered a 2nd line winger at best why is that?

Mike Green was by a mile the best scoring dman in the league, yet everyone knew he was far from being the best dman in the league. Probably why he didn't won the Norris.

Karlsson last year won the Norris because he was actually good defensively too combined in being the best offensive dman in the league. Byfuglien was - 8 last year and a minus player in every year he has played in the league. Don't talk about playing for a bad team Subban was +9 last year on the last place habs.

You have the right to like Byfuglien he is good but as a dman he is not in the top 20 in the league right now.

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Old
02-07-2013, 06:47 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
Byfuglien has a hard shot and is physical and racks up the points, but it doesn't mean he's a good Dman in his zone.

PS I agree that it's a bad proposal.
No it doesn't mean that he's a good Dman in his own zone......but he is. He's been one of the Jets best all around Dmen this year. Where are you guys getting this from?

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02-07-2013, 06:56 PM
  #34
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Yep Kane is worth Subban maybe less.

I really should have just laughed and stopped here.
Roughly the same age potential they are a lot closer than Byfuglien is to Subban in value.


Look what Goligoski was worth now compare Subban and Goligoski you have your answer.

Go and find the trade threads when this happen because I remember it well. Dallas fans were PISSED. 1 organizations bonehead move does not set the bar.

Byfuglien has played more as a forward than as a dman that tells a lot about the hawks confidence in him being a dman.
You're really reaching. What you just said basically means nothing.

We made the same mistake with Streit but he is not great defensively either.
Irrelevant

He is actually better than people think in his own zone but he's still got a lot to improve and i think he pretty much hit his ceiling.
Once again, everything you've said leads me to believe that you've watched abotu 3 Jets games over the last 2 years and saw Buff make some bonehead moves. I've been watching religiously and can tell you that the Buff of this year is way more consistent than he was last year.

I just love those fans were the number of points equals how good you are. Ryder scored 30 goals or plus 4 times in his career yet still he is considered a 2nd line winger at best why is that?

Irrelevant and reaching

Mike Green was by a mile the best scoring dman in the league, yet everyone knew he was far from being the best dman in the league. Probably why he didn't won the Norris.

Karlsson last year won the Norris because he was actually good defensively too combined in being the best offensive dman in the league. Byfuglien was - 8 last year and a minus player in every year he has played in the league. Don't talk about playing for a bad team Subban was +9 last year on the last place habs.

+ - is a team stat

You have the right to like Byfuglien he is good but as a dman he is not in the top 20 in the league right now.
Now you're just smoking crack. Name 20 better D man than Buff right now.
See.....Above

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Old
02-07-2013, 07:54 PM
  #35
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To anyone trying to make the point that Byfuglien is not a top-tier defenseman, I question your ability to evaluate talent. He is not a bad defender. The worst you can say about him is that he sometimes gets caught out of position, most notably in transition, but even that has been dramatically improved this year.

He is a one-of-a-kind impact player in the NHL. He brings a combination of size and skill that cannot be matched. The very fact that other teams have to game-plan specifically against him speaks volumes to what he brings. The Jets are a different team without him in the line-up.

He is not just a point machine as some seem to be implying.

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Old
02-07-2013, 08:34 PM
  #36
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Doughty
Keith
Seabrook
Pietrangelo
Erik Johnson
Kronwall
Karlsson
Yandle
Ekman Larsson way more complete than Byfuglien
Subban
Markov
Mcdonagh
Marc Staal
Shea Weber
Ryan Suter
Edler
Letang
Dan Boyle
Chara

Just to name a few i'm sure other will come to mind

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Old
02-07-2013, 09:21 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dharvey33 View Post
Doughty
Keith Yes
Seabrook Defence is better Byfugliens offence far superior
Pietrangelo Yes
Erik Johnson No
Kronwall Yes
Karlsson Pretty similar type of player Karlsson's defence and offence both better
Yandle Pretty similar his defence might be slightly better Byfuglien's offence better
Ekman Larsson way more complete than Byfuglien Not yet Byfuglien is far superior on offence outweighs OEL's slight advantage defensively
Subban Better on defence not by a huge margin Byfuglien has still got a decent advantage on offence
Markov No
Mcdonagh Better on defence offence is not even close
Marc Staal See above
Shea Weber Goes without saying
Ryan Suter See above
Edler Haven't seen him this year but last year I think he was struggling quite a bit defensively so not sure
Letang Slightly better defensively because of his other worldly skating ability struggles quite a bit defensively sometimes offensively Byfuglien is maybe slightly better but pretty even
Dan Boyle Yes for now
Chara Goes without saying

Just to name a few i'm sure other will come to mind
Bold

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Old
02-07-2013, 09:32 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veganhunter View Post
Bold
Well that's just your opinion just like me.

I would take any of those before Byfuglien in my team.

Players Like Timonen Hedman Vlasic Shattenkirk will be be part of the conversation too.

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Old
02-07-2013, 09:55 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Dharvey33 View Post
Well that's just your opinion just like me.

I would take any of those before Byfuglien in my team.

Players Like Timonen Hedman Vlasic Shattenkirk will be be part of the conversation too.
You're severely underrating Buff.
To say he's not a first pairing defenceman is insane. He's a number one defenceman, and a pretty good one.

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Old
02-07-2013, 10:06 PM
  #40
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Bold

Markov is far better than Buff. I mean FAR better (when healthy of course)

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Old
02-07-2013, 10:10 PM
  #41
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Markov is far better than Buff. I mean FAR better (when healthy of course)
Yeah, I'm a Bruin fan, but have to agree. When Markov is healthy, he could be a top 10 d man in the league.

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Old
02-07-2013, 10:28 PM
  #42
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Drop Buff and Eller and this deal could be okay.

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Old
02-07-2013, 11:54 PM
  #43
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This is flat out terrible. Ridiculous overpayment by Winnipeg.

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Old
02-08-2013, 12:32 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Seanahue View Post
We give up the better D-Man
no ****ing way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seanahue View Post
We give up the better forward
yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seanahue View Post
We give up a higher pick
yup


Quote:
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........all to get Rene Bourque?
awesome right?

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Old
02-08-2013, 01:07 AM
  #45
vBurmi
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Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
Are you kidding me ? Subban is worth Kane. He is a top pairing Dman, which Byfuglien is not. If you want to make that type of assessment, I guess you would think Kaberle has a good trade value... Byfuglien is terrible on Defense.
Subban is not worth Kane and Byfuglien is a top pairing Dman, Subban only ever was in Markov's absence. Subban has a ton of potential and will likely get there, but he's not there yet - Kane has already put up 30g and Byfuglien is the second best offensive D in the league (Karlsson... huge gap... Byfuglien... huge gap... everyone else).

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Old
02-08-2013, 01:49 AM
  #46
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Byfuglien is the second best offensive D in the league (Karlsson... huge gap... Byfuglien... huge gap... everyone else).
I don't want to say that it was Buffy who helped get Karlsson the Norris, but had he played, Karlsson would not have had the gap in points among defensemen that helped in Norris votes.

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Old
02-08-2013, 03:49 AM
  #47
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Markov eats byfuglien for breakfast when healthy.

I'd take Seabrook before Byfuglien because we are talking about dman here not just point shots on the pp.

BTW Byfuglien's offensive numbers benefits a lot from the great passing ability of Enstrom. They are a good fit together.

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Old
02-08-2013, 04:57 AM
  #48
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Is anyone else getting tired of the same old script on these trade boards:
Mtl (in this case) fanboy throws out a ridiculously biased OP
Wpg (in this case) fans respond with indignation
Mtl fanboys pile on, denigrating the ability of Wpg's best players and overinflating the abilities of their own.
Can we break this cycle?
1)PK is a great defenceman, maybe not Norris level yet, but damn good. Buff is a unique talent and at least as impactful, perhaps more so this year, because his defensive play has improved. I was very dubious about Buff's defensive prowess when he came up to the Peg last year...he seemed to be trying too hard and was getting caught pinching a lot. This year, he looks trimmer and is playing smarter. IF he stays healthy he will be in the Norris discussion.
2)Kane is not my favourite personality, as people on the Jets board will attest to, but he is not "one of dozens". Only a handful of wingers score 30 goals at the age of 20, especially having missed games because of injury.

There nothing that can salvage this OP, but there is always room for an honest discussion.


Last edited by piqued: 02-08-2013 at 11:59 AM. Reason: qdp
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Old
02-08-2013, 07:57 AM
  #49
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sorry here
but winnipeg is giving up the two best players in this deal.... then they add a 1st rounder?

Winnipeg says no thanks

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Old
02-08-2013, 08:00 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
Is anyone else getting tired of the same old script on these trade boards:
Mtl (in this case) fanboy throws out a ridiculously biased OP
Wpg (in this case) fans respond with indignation
Mtl fanboys pile on, denigrating the ability of Wpg's best players and overinflating the abilities of their own.
Can we break this cycle?
1)PK is a great defenceman, maybe not Norris level yet, but damn good. Buff is a unique talent and at least as impactful, perhaps more so this year, because his defensive play has improved. I was very dubious about Buff's defensive prowess when he came up to the Peg last year...he seemed to be trying too hard and was getting caught pinching a lot. This year, he looks trimmer and is playing smarter. IF he stays healthy he will be in the Norris discussion.
2)Kane is not my favourite personality, as people on the Jets board will attest to, but he is not "one of dozens". Only a handful of wingers score 30 goals at the age of 20, especially having missed games because of injury.

There nothing that can salvage this OP, but there is always room for an honest discussion.
Ah, a voice for wisdom calls out in the wilderness of stupidity.

The OP was horrid. Everyone agrees. Nothing more is needed. Jets fans can enjoy their players, as can Habs fans. Do we really need this useless pissing match?


Last edited by piqued: 02-08-2013 at 11:59 AM. Reason: noted
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