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Rangers/Avalanche (Ryan O'Reilly)

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Old
02-07-2013, 11:31 PM
  #51
Avs71
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I'd do something similar to OP's deal. I was kind of hoping they would be traded for each other when they were both RFA's. The Avs needs an offensive guy so damn badly.

If and when O'Reilly is traded, the return isn't going to be better than Del Zotto.

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Old
02-07-2013, 11:42 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs71 View Post
I'd do something similar to OP's deal. I was kind of hoping they would be traded for each other when they were both RFA's. The Avs needs an offensive guy so damn badly.

If and when O'Reilly is traded, the return isn't going to be better than Del Zotto.
That's important for Avs fans to realize (and credit you for realizing that). Del Zotto is absolute, bar none best case scenario for a return for him. And that's too steep of a price for us to give up for ROR.

Would love to trade for him, but I don't think we would offer what the Avs would want.

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Old
02-08-2013, 01:30 AM
  #53
CM Lundqvist
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MDZ >> ROR right now, and I'm a BIG fan of ROR and would love to have him in NY.

But MDZ is a 40 point defender who puts up points DESPITE being apart of THE WORST power play in the NHL and Norris Voting, although not the be-all, end-all argument to how good a defender is, had MDZ finishing 12th. So, the concerns about his defense have apparently been answered.

He's been our best defenseman so far this year as well, I'd say. Him, Stralman and then Staal.

I'd add a little to Stepan to get ROR.

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Old
02-08-2013, 04:32 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
Just as an FYI--Del Zotto has been a very good two way defenseman for more than a year now.
on the rangers. he would not be good on the Avs, we have no system and no one to guide him in any way at all.

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Old
02-08-2013, 04:42 AM
  #55
Iracundia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick Rash View Post
Just curious to hear if the value would match up

Avalanche get:
D Michael Del Zotto
C Brian Boyle
D Stu Bickel

Rangers get:

C Ryan O'Reilly
D Tyson Barrie
G Sami Aittokallio
I like what Michael Del Zotto could bring to the Avs. No offence from our D is killing us and has been for a while. We need that D-man that can put up at least 40+pts a season and QB our crappy 29th ranked PP. I like EJ but his offence has been MIA for 2 years. And I don't see him being that 40+ point guy again. MDZ would be that top pairing LD we've been looking for. It would be perfect for EJ, allowing him to be the solid stay-at-home D.

ROR's work ethic and drive are off the charts and thats a rare commodity. His all round game has been steadily improving every year. 1st last year in takeaways (101) along with the best TkA/GvA differential (+77). Need that type of 2C to win a championships but if this holdout goes to the end of the season a trade will be inevitable.




Avalanche get:

D Michael Del Zotto
C Brian Boyle

Rangers get:

C Ryan O'Reilly
G Sami Aittokallio

I'd do this trade but only if ROR requested one.

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Old
02-08-2013, 05:15 AM
  #56
The Mars Volchenkov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iracundia View Post
Avalanche get:

D Michael Del Zotto
C Brian Boyle

Rangers get:

C Ryan O'Reilly
G Sami Aittokallio

I'd do this trade but only if ROR requested one.
I honestly think this is a pretty intriguing deal. Not sure the Rangers would take it, but the Avs get a big 3rd/4th line center whose physical and will help the PK and bring in a young top 3 defenseman to play with EJ.


Last edited by The Mars Volchenkov: 02-08-2013 at 05:28 AM.
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Old
02-08-2013, 05:52 AM
  #57
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As a Rangers fan I believe Del Zotto has more value than OReilly, and this is coming from someone who loves O'Reilly. Del Zotto has made great strides in his play over the last year and as someone stated has been the best Ranger defender this year, on what is arguably the best backline in the NHL (nice to see the same poster give Stralman some love as well).

I'd much rather do Stepan+ for O'Reilly assuming O'Reilly has reasonable contract demands.

On the Bruins boards one of the posters posted two great links showing O'Reilly's value to the Avs and demonstrating how good his defensive play is. They are great reads. The post is quoted below with the links.

He does all the little things right, his game is in the details. imo he is way past Kelly in terms of what he brings. Here's some statistical information that helps communicate the value he brings: O'reilly Value

comparing o'reilly to recent Selke winners

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Old
02-08-2013, 06:16 AM
  #58
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I loke RoR, but I think Del Zotto would be a fair deal straight up.

2nd pairing defenceman that has scored 37 and 41 points in 2 of his first three years and he's on pace for 29 points in 48 games (pro-rated, that's 49 points in 82 games)

No need for anything other than a straight up deal.

That said, I'll pass.

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Old
02-08-2013, 06:28 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
27 Selke votes better
8.3% faceoff percentage better
Smoother with the ladies.
Stepan has a really hot girlfriend.
And a hot mom.

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Old
02-08-2013, 07:19 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
O'Reilly put up four more points last season. Stepan has shown that he can put up that kind of production for two years in a row. To me, demonstrated consistency is more important than four points. The Rangers wouldn't trade either Del Zotto OR Stepan straight up for O'Reilly.
Stepan? I haven't really seen him play in NHL, but damn he sucked in FEL. No work morale. I don't want this guy anywhere near Colorado. He would be shipped in next couple years to some other team, like Stewart, Wolski etc.

Del Zotto would be great. We need puckmoving ability from back end.


Last edited by Colorado Avalanche: 02-08-2013 at 07:24 AM.
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Old
02-08-2013, 07:36 AM
  #61
Kris Chreider
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I don't want to deal DZ.

Counter:
Marc Staal
Boyle
Conditional 2nd if he resigns, becomes 2014 1st if RoR gets 40 pts

for

RoR
Wilson
Downie
Barrie

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Old
02-08-2013, 08:07 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
I don't want to deal DZ.

Counter:
Marc Staal
Boyle
Conditional 2nd if he resigns, becomes 2014 1st if RoR gets 40 pts

for

RoR
Wilson
Downie
Barrie
can you trade injured players? Downie is out for the rest of season.
Anyway, we can't afford to give up Wilson, because he's semi-decent, others you can have (no johnson either).
Anyway it's too much from Avalanche.
My point was, we are trying to upgrade our defense depth, so giving up our #2 defenseman at the moment, would be bad. We need more defensive depth and quality.

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Old
02-08-2013, 08:39 AM
  #63
Lonewolfe2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
I don't want to deal DZ.

Counter:
Marc Staal
Boyle
Conditional 2nd if he resigns, becomes 2014 1st if RoR gets 40 pts

for

RoR
Wilson
Downie
Barrie
This is really bad for the Avs.

RoR + Wilson for Staal I'll give you, but Barrie > Boyle and Downie > 2nd.

I can't see a deal happening with the Rangers that I end up liking, Sather and Sherman don't seem like a good match for a trade, both are good trading GMs and neither are fond of overpaying RFAs.

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Old
02-08-2013, 09:31 AM
  #64
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Doesn't really make sense to trade away one of our top-4 defensemen to add another center. In a vacuum, I think the value is decent, but right now it makes no sense.

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Old
02-08-2013, 09:44 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
This is really bad for the Avs.

RoR + Wilson for Staal I'll give you, but Barrie > Boyle and Downie > 2nd.

I can't see a deal happening with the Rangers that I end up liking, Sather and Sherman don't seem like a good match for a trade, both are good trading GMs and neither are fond of overpaying RFAs.
Staal is so underrated on HF......

But I guess you can keep Downie. I like RoR + Wilson for Staal too. We can add Skjei if you want to the original deal. Futures don't help us win our Cup this year.

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Old
02-08-2013, 09:45 AM
  #66
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MDZ for ROR straight up?

Where do I sign???

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Old
02-08-2013, 09:53 AM
  #67
Kris Chreider
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And trade our only true PMD? MDZ is important for our transition and PP. His defense is also much, much better than most offensive Ds.

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Old
02-08-2013, 10:05 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
Staal is so underrated on HF......

But I guess you can keep Downie. I like RoR + Wilson for Staal too. We can add Skjei if you want to the original deal. Futures don't help us win our Cup this year.
The original deal just needs to drop Bickel and Barrie/Aitto, then fill in the hole for Boyle's value tbh. Avs aren't in a position to move our youth right now, we need to build around them and/or let them develop before moving them.

Skjei would interest me some though, given his left handed, relative size and possible abilities. If we were to deal O'Reilly + Wilson + Something for Staal + Skjei I could get behind that.

But just O'Reilly + Wilson for Staal I'd have to back off of most likely. Not due to straight value but relative value. We lose our 2nd/3rd best defender when we really should be building upon our defensive depth by moving the junk at the bottom.

I do agree though, Staal is underrated. But some people do the same to O'Reilly around here, thinking his popularity and contract situation overrates him. He's got 1b potential in many Avs fans eyes and we'd be making a mistake to trade him in almost any deal that becomes available to us.

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Old
02-08-2013, 10:17 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Doesn't really make sense to trade away one of our top-4 defensemen to add another center. In a vacuum, I think the value is decent, but right now it makes no sense.
You summed it up perfectly.
As we sit here on Feb 8th a Top 4 two way defensemen is far more valuable to the Rangers than an unsigned 2nd/3rd line cneter who hasn't played in a month (Did he play in europe during lockout?).

It is actually fair value, but I don't think the Rangers can make that deal even if they love ROR since they have nobody to replace MDZ. They would be one injury on defense away from disaster.

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Old
02-08-2013, 10:38 AM
  #70
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Avalanche get:

D Michael Del Zotto
C Brian Boyle
D Stu Bickel

Rangers get:

C Ryan O'Reilly
D Tyson Barrie
G Sami Aittokallio


the value there isn't even close. Bickel is a bum. Boyle is pretty useless and from the looks of it Rangers fans are ready to boot him out the door. Del Zotto while being promising offensively, is a detriment to his team in the defensive zone which is not something the Avs need. They already have enough issues playing defensive hockey (poor varly)

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Old
02-08-2013, 10:40 AM
  #71
The Mars Volchenkov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
You summed it up perfectly.
As we sit here on Feb 8th a Top 4 two way defensemen is far more valuable to the Rangers than an unsigned 2nd/3rd line cneter who hasn't played in a month (Did he play in europe during lockout?).

It is actually fair value, but I don't think the Rangers can make that deal even if they love ROR since they have nobody to replace MDZ. They would be one injury on defense away from disaster.
He's obviously not the same type of defenseman as MDZ, but what about MDZ + Boyle for O'Reilly and Shane O'Brien and maybe a pick? I don't know, don't usually do proposals.

And yes, O'Reilly played in the KHL during the lockout.

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Old
02-08-2013, 10:42 AM
  #72
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I heard some crazy stat last night.

Winnipeg has 34 points from Dmen (and remember, Byfugliens missed a bunch of games) while the ENTIRE Avs defence has 7 points. lol

Avs desparately need some offense.

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Old
02-08-2013, 10:44 AM
  #73
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Old
02-08-2013, 10:53 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
The Rangers were just playing hardball with Del Zotto and eventually got him to sign a two-year bridge contract. That's exactly what the Avs are doing with O'Reilly right now but so far he hasn't agreed.

Why would the Rangers now trade Del Zotto and deal with this O'Reilly headache?
This^.

How about O'Reilly for Boyle down, and then if we sign/extend, something like Calle Andersson and a future pick?

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Old
02-08-2013, 10:58 AM
  #75
bernmeister
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
The original deal just needs to drop Bickel and Barrie/Aitto, then fill in the hole for Boyle's value tbh. Avs aren't in a position to move our youth right now, we need to build around them and/or let them develop before moving them.

Skjei would interest me some though, given his left handed, relative size and possible abilities. If we were to deal O'Reilly + Wilson + Something for Staal + Skjei I could get behind that.

But just O'Reilly + Wilson for Staal I'd have to back off of most likely. Not due to straight value but relative value. We lose our 2nd/3rd best defender when we really should be building upon our defensive depth by moving the junk at the bottom.

I do agree though, Staal is underrated. But some people do the same to O'Reilly around here, thinking his popularity and contract situation overrates him. He's got 1b potential in many Avs fans eyes and we'd be making a mistake to trade him in almost any deal that becomes available to us.
No thanks.
While O'Reilly is not chopped liver, high end Ds available now are worth more, and more importantly, we can't deal unless there is are real upgrade, not just a need for a need, which is more palatable coke for pepsi.

Would not be comfortable with Staal OR Skjei, let alone Staal + Skjei.
Have counterproposal in my immediately prior post.

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