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Vanek's Success: How Much Credit Does CoHo Deserve?

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Old
02-08-2013, 03:22 AM
  #51
Shoey
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I agree that Ennis is the team's best center, but his game doesn't fit with Vanek at all. Vanek is better when he's the primary catalyst of a line. You have to allow Thomas Vanek to be more than just a sniper, because he's truly a complete player.

A lot is made of how many different ways Thomas Vanek is capable of scoring, very little is made of the different ways Thomas Vanek can set people up. Give him hard working guys who go to the net and ice time and this is exactly what I've thought would happen for years, Vanek's vindicating everything a lot of us see when we watched him play. Hodgson isn't a perfect player yet, but he does have skill and he is willing to go to dirty areas to make a play. He's far and away the best fit to center Vanek on this roster right now.

Tyler Ennis creates offense primarily with his skating, he's another guy that's most effective when he's holding the puck and finding his own space. He can be frustrating with the turnovers but most of it is him working really hard and trying to make plays. If given the right matchups (this is helped by Vanek dominating on a separate line) he's also very capable of taking over a game. At 23 he's just an endlessly exciting player because I see real progress with him as he's matured... I think the best is yet to come.

The wildcard with this whole line of thinking? Grigs.

Grigorenko's vision is already showing some of the flashes I see from Vanek... if he ever develops into a #1 center it would have the potential to be Lafontaine/Mogilny all over again. 2 guys operating on a level few are capable of... but this is all theoretical and probably at least a year away from happening so I digress.

I don't think this team is very good right now, but I do think that's going to change as these guys mature... there's a lot of potential in this team.

oh and fire Lindy dammit, anybody who took 8 years to finally play Thomas Vanek in most situations deserves it.

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02-08-2013, 05:55 AM
  #52
Irving Zisman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoey View Post
I agree that Ennis is the team's best center, but his game doesn't fit with Vanek at all. Vanek is better when he's the primary catalyst of a line. You have to allow Thomas Vanek to be more than just a sniper, because he's truly a complete player.

A lot is made of how many different ways Thomas Vanek is capable of scoring, very little is made of the different ways Thomas Vanek can set people up. Give him hard working guys who go to the net and ice time and this is exactly what I've thought would happen for years, Vanek's vindicating everything a lot of us see when we watched him play. Hodgson isn't a perfect player yet, but he does have skill and he is willing to go to dirty areas to make a play. He's far and away the best fit to center Vanek on this roster right now.

Tyler Ennis creates offense primarily with his skating, he's another guy that's most effective when he's holding the puck and finding his own space. He can be frustrating with the turnovers but most of it is him working really hard and trying to make plays. If given the right matchups (this is helped by Vanek dominating on a separate line) he's also very capable of taking over a game. At 23 he's just an endlessly exciting player because I see real progress with him as he's matured... I think the best is yet to come.

The wildcard with this whole line of thinking? Grigs.

Grigorenko's vision is already showing some of the flashes I see from Vanek... if he ever develops into a #1 center it would have the potential to be Lafontaine/Mogilny all over again. 2 guys operating on a level few are capable of... but this is all theoretical and probably at least a year away from happening so I digress.

I don't think this team is very good right now, but I do think that's going to change as these guys mature... there's a lot of potential in this team.

oh and fire Lindy dammit, anybody who took 8 years to finally play Thomas Vanek in most situations deserves it.
Well said, sir

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02-08-2013, 05:58 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Luceni View Post
It will be interesting to see how vanek can benefit from Poms & Hodgson when he falls back down to earth (point production wise).

At the moment, the first line works because Vanek is dominating and Pominville & Hodgson are passengers. I hope when vanek cools down (yeah, it will happen) Hodgson & Jpoms are able to carry that line too.
When I think of a "passenger," I think of a player who racks up secondary assists off of the top guy, which is not what Pominville and Hodgson are doing. All 3 are creating and finishing opportunities. Yes, Vanek is playing out of this world right now, but the other two aren't just out there skating in circles.

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02-08-2013, 07:09 AM
  #54
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The difference between Adam and Cody? How about the fact Cody produced 40 points in his rookie season, even with being traded mid-season...

To compare the two is just laughable. Last season Vanek had 27 points in 24 games. Right now he has 21 in 10. It took him 17 games to reach 21 last year.

I don't think there is any question that Vanek has been a better player with CoHo manning the middle of the ice. There is a reason Vancouver fans were so high on him when he left.

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02-08-2013, 08:51 AM
  #55
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Not much... Vanek is doing great things on his own.

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02-08-2013, 08:56 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoey View Post
I agree that Ennis is the team's best center, but his game doesn't fit with Vanek at all. Vanek is better when he's the primary catalyst of a line. You have to allow Thomas Vanek to be more than just a sniper, because he's truly a complete player.

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02-08-2013, 09:34 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoey View Post
I agree that Ennis is the team's best center, but his game doesn't fit with Vanek at all. Vanek is better when he's the primary catalyst of a line. You have to allow Thomas Vanek to be more than just a sniper, because he's truly a complete player.

A lot is made of how many different ways Thomas Vanek is capable of scoring, very little is made of the different ways Thomas Vanek can set people up. Give him hard working guys who go to the net and ice time and this is exactly what I've thought would happen for years, Vanek's vindicating everything a lot of us see when we watched him play. Hodgson isn't a perfect player yet, but he does have skill and he is willing to go to dirty areas to make a play. He's far and away the best fit to center Vanek on this roster right now.

Tyler Ennis creates offense primarily with his skating, he's another guy that's most effective when he's holding the puck and finding his own space. He can be frustrating with the turnovers but most of it is him working really hard and trying to make plays. If given the right matchups (this is helped by Vanek dominating on a separate line) he's also very capable of taking over a game. At 23 he's just an endlessly exciting player because I see real progress with him as he's matured... I think the best is yet to come.

The wildcard with this whole line of thinking? Grigs.

Grigorenko's vision is already showing some of the flashes I see from Vanek... if he ever develops into a #1 center it would have the potential to be Lafontaine/Mogilny all over again. 2 guys operating on a level few are capable of... but this is all theoretical and probably at least a year away from happening so I digress.

I don't think this team is very good right now, but I do think that's going to change as these guys mature... there's a lot of potential in this team.

oh and fire Lindy dammit, anybody who took 8 years to finally play Thomas Vanek in most situations deserves it.
That's cute.

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02-08-2013, 09:46 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoey View Post
I agree that Ennis is the team's best center, but his game doesn't fit with Vanek at all. Vanek is better when he's the primary catalyst of a line. You have to allow Thomas Vanek to be more than just a sniper, because he's truly a complete player.

A lot is made of how many different ways Thomas Vanek is capable of scoring, very little is made of the different ways Thomas Vanek can set people up. Give him hard working guys who go to the net and ice time and this is exactly what I've thought would happen for years, Vanek's vindicating everything a lot of us see when we watched him play. Hodgson isn't a perfect player yet, but he does have skill and he is willing to go to dirty areas to make a play. He's far and away the best fit to center Vanek on this roster right now.

Tyler Ennis creates offense primarily with his skating, he's another guy that's most effective when he's holding the puck and finding his own space. He can be frustrating with the turnovers but most of it is him working really hard and trying to make plays. If given the right matchups (this is helped by Vanek dominating on a separate line) he's also very capable of taking over a game. At 23 he's just an endlessly exciting player because I see real progress with him as he's matured... I think the best is yet to come.

The wildcard with this whole line of thinking? Grigs.

Grigorenko's vision is already showing some of the flashes I see from Vanek... if he ever develops into a #1 center it would have the potential to be Lafontaine/Mogilny all over again. 2 guys operating on a level few are capable of... but this is all theoretical and probably at least a year away from happening so I digress.

I don't think this team is very good right now, but I do think that's going to change as these guys mature... there's a lot of potential in this team.

oh and fire Lindy dammit, anybody who took 8 years to finally play Thomas Vanek in most situations deserves it.
thanks for the laugh

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Old
02-08-2013, 09:48 AM
  #59
Tim Murray
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Hodgson is far and away the best center on the roster right now. Fits perfectly with Vanek also, for reasons I've stated several times.

Ennis is starting to come along, but I'm of the opinion that moving him to the wing for a while would do him a lot of good.

We don't have anyone to step in to the 2nd line C right now though. Grigs eventually, maybe in another few weeks.

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02-08-2013, 09:59 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
That's cute.
I don't think it's even really debatable right now. They're tied for points despite Ennis getting more difficult minutes and not having the benefit of playing consistently on a line with the league's top forward and captain, and he's a plus while CoHo's a minus despite playing on that line, plus the fact that Ennis has had far more past success in this league despite being in the same draft year. I'm sorry, but you must have an agenda if you are going to have that opinion.

Ennis vs. CoHo is off topic, but the idea of Vanek succeeding with virtually any center seems legit. If Hodgson cleans up his act in his own end, I think he can be a legit, long term top 6 center. But as of right now, it feels like he's is to blame for as many goals against as he helps contribute for.

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02-08-2013, 09:59 AM
  #61
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Cody Hodgson

ES: 5G 5A
PP 0G 0A 2:28TOI (not on top unit)


Tyler Ennis

ES: 4G 2A (goal in BOS was just as PP expired)
PP: 0G 3A 3:56TOI (Top Unit)


I would say Hodgson is the better player, he also has more room to improve.

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02-08-2013, 10:00 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
I don't think it's even really debatable right now. They're tied for points despite Ennis getting more difficult minutes and not having the benefit of playing consistently on a line with the league's top forward and captain, and he's a plus while CoHo's a minus despite playing on that line, plus the fact that Ennis has had far more past success in this league despite being in the same draft year. I'm sorry, but you must have an agenda if you are going to have that opinion.

Ennis vs. CoHo is off topic, but the idea of Vanek succeeding with virtually any center seems legit. If Hodgson cleans up his act in his own end, I think he can be a legit, long term top 6 center. But as of right now, it feels like he's is to blame for as many goals against as he helps contribute for.
The only one with an Ennis/Hodgson agenda is you.

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02-08-2013, 10:02 AM
  #63
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The only one with an Ennis/Hodgson agenda is you.
Good points. Well debated.

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02-08-2013, 10:03 AM
  #64
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Good points. Well debated.
it's true

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02-08-2013, 10:03 AM
  #65
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Tyler Ennis has zero primary assists at 5-on-5 this year.

Factual agenda.

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02-08-2013, 10:06 AM
  #66
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Never mind!!

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02-08-2013, 10:07 AM
  #67
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Tyler Ennis has zero primary assists at 5-on-5 this year.

Factual agenda.
Yeah? Who's got better hair?

Facts matter.

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02-08-2013, 10:09 AM
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He had one last night
Not according to Behind the Net.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...0+17+18+19+20#

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02-08-2013, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
it's true
Yes, because around here, we call differing opinions "agendas". It makes us feel nice and cozy about our own opinions.

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02-08-2013, 10:12 AM
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Maybe you don't remember him sliding it to Vanek for his first goal?

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02-08-2013, 10:14 AM
  #71
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Yes, because around here, we call differing opinions "agendas". It makes us feel nice and cozy about our own opinions.
you had your mind made up before Hodgson played a game for Buffalo because you were a Kassian "fan boy". Yes, I would call that an agenda.

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02-08-2013, 10:14 AM
  #72
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Maybe you don't remember him sliding it to Vanek for his first goal?
Powerplay's aren't 5 on 5 last time I checked.

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02-08-2013, 10:17 AM
  #73
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Tyler Ennis has zero primary assists at 5-on-5 this year.

Factual agenda.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Maybe you don't remember him sliding it to Vanek for his first goal?
Please read closer. See bolded. White had just taken his 4-minute penalty.

P.S. Should we start a thread about how many of Ennis' points "were all Vanek?"

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02-08-2013, 10:20 AM
  #74
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Powerplay's aren't 5 on 5 last time I checked.
Touche. But I hardly see that as an indictment. Stafford has 0 goals on 30 shots. That shooting percentage isn't sustainable.

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02-08-2013, 10:23 AM
  #75
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Touche. But I hardly see that as an indictment. Stafford has 0 goals on 30 shots. That shooting percentage isn't sustainable.
Stafford's been bad, too. The difference is you don't see anyone claiming Stafford's the better winger over Pominville because he has more difficult minutes and Pominville only gets points because he's playing with Vanek.

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