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*ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals)

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Old
02-08-2013, 01:21 AM
  #26
PAZ
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This just dawned on me, no idea if it's been discussed yet. While it is a longshot, it makes more sense the more I think about it.

Wild
Loungo

Canucks
Backstrom
Clutterbuck

While I don't think it would happen because of inter-division trades, it makes sense that this could be the building block for a trade. I'm not sure how each side feels about the value, again just the building block. With Harding diagnosed with MS and Backstrom becoming inconsistent, the Wild might be in the Lou sweepstakes.

Canucks get a Mentor and a very good back up for Schneids with the option to resign him or save cap space, while at the same time giving him enough competition to keep him motivated. Clutterbuck is always a nice addition to have.

Wild just spent a ton this offseason, they want to win and they'll spend. Loungo gives them that solid goaltending they need.

Honestly if they weren't in the same division, i'd say Wild would've been the frontrunner. IMO Toronto is too much in shambles (no identity) for them to take on Loungo, and the Caps believe that Holtby or Neuvirth will become the #1 soon, even if they're both playing pretty bad at the moment.

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02-08-2013, 01:32 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
I appreciate your reply. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders which is refreshing.

I see the canucks 'being a good team' .........like they were from 2005-2008 ......

but NOT the same as a 'contender' that they were from 2003 and 2004. When Gillis came in 2008 , got Mats Sundin on board, it changed the twins and ryan kesler from guys who were TRYING to be good , to guys who knew they were good.

The 2008-2010 teams were VERY good, but not full blown contenders. The 2010 to 2014 canucks are full blown contenders . As in nobody would be surprised to see the Canucks win the cup.

As for asset managment , coaching etc, yes all that matters but it doesnt mean anyone other than Detroit was an ACTUAL real contender every year . The Flyers aint and neither are the Devils. The way it works on paper is not the way it pans out in real life.

I can tell you what I have seen since the 1970s. Its not the same anymore. Salary cap and CBA rules allowing for higher salaries and freer movement make it virtually impossible for anyone to build a dynasty.

Penguins have Crosby and Malkin , and thats about as close as you are going to get. Toews and Kane are another dynamic duo that makes the hawks contend , but they still need Keith or it aint happening either.

Canucks will have Kesler. Thats it for exceptional players. As in truly exceptional. Maybe Edler and the rest are GOOD players like Hamhuis and Burrows Bieksa Schneider etc.......

Again we will be back to having a team good enough to make the second round and thats it unless it gets very lucky.


If you have Kesler, Edler and Schneider as your "exceptional" players, that's a strong base to build from. The fact is, you don't need Sedin level elite players to contend. St.Louis, LA, Boston and NYR are the class of the league, IMO, and no one but Kopitar is a PPG among those teams (76 in 82 games). Their high end players make up production in other ways, like better defense/other utility. The point being, elite players don't make a great team... They help, but they are no the determinant factor.



You still have a 1C, 1D, and 1G to build around with Kesler, Edler and Schneider. That's a similar base to what other 2way focused teams build from. They aren't second round fodder, so I'm pretty sure if Gillis build the Canucks right, the nucks won't be either.



Quote:
We also happen to have Eddie Lack. This is a major consideration. How good is Lack?
If he is any good at all at the NHL level, then selling Schneider for a better package is a win win because if we are still honestly contending, then Lack just takes Schneiders place.

We have seen the reaction to Luongo's contract. Nothing he does now changes this in terms of value. It would have already happened. Luongo is worth way more to us than he is in trade to another team. Its the contract and new cap hit rules.


Lack has a ways to go to become another 'Schneider'. Still a lot to prove. He also has to get over his injury. I'd rather he prove it first, and we know what we have, before anything with Schneider is even considered. Just like they did with Schneider when he was backing up Luongo and learning.



The reaction to the contract is unsurprising. Very few understand the complete implications of the deal. That said, I think Gillis knew what he was doing before signing Luongo to that deal, and he knows what he's doing now... which he waited instead of taking a sub-par offer from TOR. He could have gotten rid of the contract then, if it was really viewed as a salary dump around the league. Perfect time to dump it then. He didn't, because he has reason to believe he can expect more. Let's see if he was right.

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Old
02-08-2013, 01:42 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAZ View Post
This just dawned on me, no idea if it's been discussed yet. While it is a longshot, it makes more sense the more I think about it.

Wild
Loungo

Canucks
Backstrom
Clutterbuck

While I don't think it would happen because of inter-division trades, it makes sense that this could be the building block for a trade. I'm not sure how each side feels about the value, again just the building block. With Harding diagnosed with MS and Backstrom becoming inconsistent, the Wild might be in the Lou sweepstakes.

Canucks get a Mentor and a very good back up for Schneids with the option to resign him or save cap space, while at the same time giving him enough competition to keep him motivated. Clutterbuck is always a nice addition to have.

Wild just spent a ton this offseason, they want to win and they'll spend. Loungo gives them that solid goaltending they need.

Honestly if they weren't in the same division, i'd say Wild would've been the frontrunner. IMO Toronto is too much in shambles (no identity) for them to take on Loungo, and the Caps believe that Holtby or Neuvirth will become the #1 soon, even if they're both playing pretty bad at the moment.


I don't think it happens because the wild have Harding and Hackett in the pipeline. Odds are they ride it out, and perhaps get a short-term solution themselves to tide them over.

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02-08-2013, 01:56 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I don't think it happens because the wild have Harding and Hackett in the pipeline. Odds are they ride it out, and perhaps get a short-term solution themselves to tide them over.
Harding has MS, It's really hard to see him be the #1 for the Wild.

Hackett is again pretty unproven. Can they become #1s? Sure. Will they? I don't see any huge indicator that they will.

Loungo is an elite goaltender, and considering they have a lot of young players coming up, they could give a piece or two that would help the Canucks as well.

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02-08-2013, 02:27 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by PAZ View Post
Harding has MS, It's really hard to see him be the #1 for the Wild.

Hackett is again pretty unproven. Can they become #1s? Sure. Will they? I don't see any huge indicator that they will.

Loungo is an elite goaltender, and considering they have a lot of young players coming up, they could give a piece or two that would help the Canucks as well.
Still doesn't change the fact that Backstrom and Clutterbuck doesn't cut it valuewise though. Backstrom is almost worthless(EDIT: To us!), having a higher cap hit then Luongo and being UFA...he's an temp back up, then a dump. Clutterbuck isn't bad, but he's not worth Lu by a long shot.

I'd be looking for Setoguchi, Bouchard, Gilbert, Clutterbuck or Heatley, and one of the Dumba/Coyle/Granlund/1st (depending on who the first piece is naturally) if the Wild aren't interested in one of their big name players (ala Koivu).

Much like trading with Edmonton or Chicago, we're not going to surrender a piece that Minnesota needs cheaply because we're nice guys. We want to improve as much as they do.

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02-08-2013, 02:36 AM
  #31
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Do you guys think it's at all possible that luongo could actually have a year this year that takes him back to his prime, or better yet plays better then he did in the past?.

This is the most dominant luongo I have seen since the Jeff cowan on the 1st line era.

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02-08-2013, 02:41 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Lucbourdon View Post
Do you guys think it's at all possible that luongo could actually have a year this year that takes him back to his prime, or better yet plays better then he did in the past?.

This is the most dominant luongo I have seen since the Jeff cowan on the 1st line era.


It's the same Luongo. He doesn't look any more dominant to me.


Possible he keeps it going into the playoffs? Sure. Wouldn't rule it out. Time will tell.

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02-08-2013, 04:16 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAZ View Post
This just dawned on me, no idea if it's been discussed yet. While it is a longshot, it makes more sense the more I think about it.

Wild
Loungo

Canucks
Backstrom
Clutterbuck

While I don't think it would happen because of inter-division trades, it makes sense that this could be the building block for a trade. I'm not sure how each side feels about the value, again just the building block. With Harding diagnosed with MS and Backstrom becoming inconsistent, the Wild might be in the Lou sweepstakes.

Canucks get a Mentor and a very good back up for Schneids with the option to resign him or save cap space, while at the same time giving him enough competition to keep him motivated. Clutterbuck is always a nice addition to have.

Wild just spent a ton this offseason, they want to win and they'll spend. Loungo gives them that solid goaltending they need.

Honestly if they weren't in the same division, i'd say Wild would've been the frontrunner. IMO Toronto is too much in shambles (no identity) for them to take on Loungo, and the Caps believe that Holtby or Neuvirth will become the #1 soon, even if they're both playing pretty bad at the moment.
I'll admit, it is somewhat intriguing, if only because I would adore Clutterbuck on the Nucks. But his value is simply not enough to warrant Luongo. The Wild would need to include a respectable prospect or their first to make it worth our while.

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02-08-2013, 06:14 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
I'll admit, it is somewhat intriguing, if only because I would adore Clutterbuck on the Nucks. But his value is simply not enough to warrant Luongo. The Wild would need to include a respectable prospect or their first to make it worth our while.
Value is not close, even if they include their 1st. Trading Luongo to a division rival is a terrible idea unless it is massive overpayment. I can't see how this is intriguing, its scary lol.

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02-08-2013, 06:15 AM
  #35
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Guy was invisible last night. Team won in spite of him not showing up on the ice. Dump this bum before it's too late!

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02-08-2013, 09:37 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by binop7 View Post
Washington has so many more problems than just goaltending. Their winger depth is abysmal, half of their D have been garbage, centre depth is fairly weak too. Lu would mask some of that, but they wouldn't turn it around with prime Hasek in net imo.
A goalie should not be viewed as a superhero to bail out a broken system, inexperienced coach and pouting superstars. What lou would bring washington is leadership in the room to take the weight off ovi, confidence on the whole team, and yes, it'll fill a big hole. You have to have a solid spine to win. Washington is more talented than nashville or new jersey (for example) if they have lou. With that kind of talent they should contend. Just need the basics in place.


Last edited by ginner classic: 02-08-2013 at 09:43 AM.
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Old
02-08-2013, 09:49 AM
  #37
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So uh the canucks are about to go 6-2-2 without kesler and booth. Our goaltending is carrying our team so hard right now, it's not even funny.
Yeah, and minus the few early games where we let in a whole wack of goals, our Goals Against would even be lower. Our goals-for is low enough

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02-08-2013, 10:15 AM
  #38
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Still doesn't change the fact that Backstrom and Clutterbuck doesn't cut it valuewise though. Backstrom is almost worthless(EDIT: To us!), having a higher cap hit then Luongo and being UFA...he's an temp back up, then a dump. Clutterbuck isn't bad, but he's not worth Lu by a long shot.

I'd be looking for Setoguchi, Bouchard, Gilbert, Clutterbuck or Heatley, and one of the Dumba/Coyle/Granlund/1st (depending on who the first piece is naturally) if the Wild aren't interested in one of their big name players (ala Koivu).

Much like trading with Edmonton or Chicago, we're not going to surrender a piece that Minnesota needs cheaply because we're nice guys. We want to improve as much as they do.
Not a MINN fan, but I think you are probably going to have to keep looking. I could see maybe a 1st with Bouchard or Gilbert (or maybe Heatley, if they have really soured on his contract - which, do you want to take that on with the cap lowering next year?).

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02-08-2013, 10:25 AM
  #39
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Not a MINN fan, but I think you are probably going to have to keep looking. I could see maybe a 1st with Bouchard or Gilbert (or maybe Heatley, if they have really soured on his contract - which, do you want to take that on with the cap lowering next year?).
Oh no, I'm totally aware my requests are way high. The problem I see with dealing in conference. Again, teams like Edmonton, Chicago, Detroit, San Jose, Colorado...all would have to improve our team with the return as much as Lu would improve their team. If we were interested in dumping Lu, it would have happened, likely to Florida.

As for the first with one of those three....That's the kind of package I'd be looking at. I listed those three prospects more for if the returning player was lesser then I listed.

As for Heatley, ideally not, but stranger things have happened, and another premium forward, cap hit be damned, is a better return for Luongo then like 90% of what's been offered in these boards.

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02-08-2013, 10:57 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
If you have Kesler, Edler and Schneider as your "exceptional" players, that's a strong base to build from. The fact is, you don't need Sedin level elite players to contend. St.Louis, LA, Boston and NYR are the class of the league, IMO, and no one but Kopitar is a PPG among those teams (76 in 82 games). Their high end players make up production in other ways, like better defense/other utility. The point being, elite players don't make a great team... They help, but they are no the determinant factor.
Huh?

Gaborik, Richards, Nash, and arguably A. McDonald are all PPG players on those teams. I'm also not sure how you can state those teams are the "class of the league" and exclude teams like Pitts, Boston, Chicago, Nashville, SJ, and Vancouver etc..

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02-08-2013, 11:04 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Lucbourdon View Post
Do you guys think it's at all possible that luongo could actually have a year this year that takes him back to his prime, or better yet plays better then he did in the past?.

This is the most dominant luongo I have seen since the Jeff cowan on the 1st line era.
Luongo never stopped being an elite goaltender

Canucks media did all of this to themselves by creating a goaltending controversy

Any other market and it wouldve been an elite goaltender being pushed by a younger guy who looks just as good. (Think Boston)

Eventually one guy gets traded and life goes back to normal

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02-08-2013, 11:20 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Oh no, I'm totally aware my requests are way high. The problem I see with dealing in conference. Again, teams like Edmonton, Chicago, Detroit, San Jose, Colorado...all would have to improve our team with the return as much as Lu would improve their team. If we were interested in dumping Lu, it would have happened, likely to Florida.

As for the first with one of those three....That's the kind of package I'd be looking at. I listed those three prospects more for if the returning player was lesser then I listed.

As for Heatley, ideally not, but stranger things have happened, and another premium forward, cap hit be damned, is a better return for Luongo then like 90% of what's been offered in these boards.
Fair enough, I can respect that position. From an outsiders prospective, a fair deal between these two teams would be something like Lu for Heatley and a 2nd or 3rd (maybe a 1st really depending on cap structure etc). Minn gets their goalie (a year younger than Backstrom) locked down at a reasonable cap hit, Van gets a 32 year old (year younger than Luongo) sniper that could just clean up in all the open space provided by the twins and on the powerplay.

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02-08-2013, 11:25 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
If you have Kesler, Edler and Schneider as your "exceptional" players, that's a strong base to build from. The fact is, you don't need Sedin level elite players to contend. St.Louis, LA, Boston and NYR are the class of the league, IMO, and no one but Kopitar is a PPG among those teams (76 in 82 games). Their high end players make up production in other ways, like better defense/other utility. The point being, elite players don't make a great team... They help, but they are no the determinant factor.



You still have a 1C, 1D, and 1G to build around with Kesler, Edler and Schneider. That's a similar base to what other 2way focused teams build from. They aren't second round fodder, so I'm pretty sure if Gillis build the Canucks right, the nucks won't be either.







Lack has a ways to go to become another 'Schneider'. Still a lot to prove. He also has to get over his injury. I'd rather he prove it first, and we know what we have, before anything with Schneider is even considered. Just like they did with Schneider when he was backing up Luongo and learning.



The reaction to the contract is unsurprising. Very few understand the complete implications of the deal. That said, I think Gillis knew what he was doing before signing Luongo to that deal, and he knows what he's doing now... which he waited instead of taking a sub-par offer from TOR. He could have gotten rid of the contract then, if it was really viewed as a salary dump around the league. Perfect time to dump it then. He didn't, because he has reason to believe he can expect more. Let's see if he was right.
Excellent post. Well written. I agree that I may be putting my standard of what a contender is too high. Perhaps we wont be FAVORITES but we can still be in the mix without the Sedins.

But here is my belief. Luongo can stay strong for 5 years, at least solid, then trading Schneider will get us back a solid top 10 prospect and a first and second rounder. there are a dozen teams around the league that need a contending goalie who can grow with the team for 5 more years .

So our prospect base would grow with the Schneider return, and we have Eddie Lack to back Luongo up.

And you are right. Since he is injured we aint trading either goalie . A cheapie back up would have to be in the package.

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02-08-2013, 11:26 AM
  #44
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Fair enough, I can respect that position. From an outsiders prospective, a fair deal between these two teams would be something like Lu for Heatley and a 2nd or 3rd (maybe a 1st really depending on cap structure etc). Minn gets their goalie (a year younger than Backstrom) locked down at a reasonable cap hit, Van gets a 32 year old (year younger than Luongo) sniper that could just clean up in all the open space provided by the twins and on the powerplay.
Given the cap situation and the recent (last few years) of play, I don't see Heatley being worth the cap hit he has. However, if no other team was interested, and Lu requested a trade to the Twin Cities, then I could see a trade like that happening with Parise just signed.

That's the kind of deal I would want to see though, for an in conference trade. Another high level talent, possibly (if need be) with cap/contract issues.

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02-08-2013, 12:05 PM
  #45
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Poor Schnieder... This was supposed to be his year to cement himself as a elite #1 goaltender... Luongo is screwing that up for him right now..

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02-08-2013, 12:09 PM
  #46
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Poor Schnieder... This was supposed to be his year to cement himself as a elite #1 goaltender... Luongo is screwing that up for him right now..
If Schneider keeps playing like he did last night, he'll have no trouble. Early hickups, poor team play defensively, and Luongo playing lights out in his first chances with the team playing moderately well....Schneider with a team that cares about winning now...well as a Canucks fan, I support this

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02-08-2013, 12:18 PM
  #47
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Poor Schnieder... This was supposed to be his year to cement himself as a elite #1 goaltender... Luongo is screwing that up for him right now..
Luongo got hot, so they rode him for a few games, nbd, Schneider was given an oppertunity las night and preformed so we will ride him for a while. Nothing wrong with choosing which goalie to play based of merrit.

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02-08-2013, 12:22 PM
  #48
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Luongo will be moved, it's just a matter of when, where and for what
I predict that IF Luongo is moved, it wont be until the offseason because needing a backup to come along with the package further shrinks the teams who would be able to accommodate that stipulation.

So in the offseason , if its Luongo , and not Schneider, who is moved, the deal will not get any sweeter and gms will not offer any more than they already have. Nobody ever questioned his ability , but they question his contract and his age .

No GM in their right mind is trading for Luongo based on how he is playing right now alone. That is suicide at his age with that contract. Its so short sighted that it would be a wet dream as a Canuck fan and uttery insanity for the other team.

Putting myself in the role of a rival GM , such as the leafs, I offer Ashton, Colbourne and an unconditional 1st in 2014.

Thats a gift for the canucks. Dont think so? See how much Luongo is worth 2 years from now. How much 3 years from now?

Look at J S Giggure. He has a cup and Conn Smythe trophy . Hes worth dog crap now.

I believe Luongo to be worth far more to us than he is in trade to another team.

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02-08-2013, 12:30 PM
  #49
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Proposal with Florida...

To Van
- Weiss
- Goc
- Petrovic
- Clemmensen

To Florida

- Luongo
- Connauton
- 2nd or 3rd rounder
- conditional 1st (if Canucks make SCF)

Flame away...

edit: I guess it's really not enough for Weiss. I'd still do Lou for Goc, Petrovic and Clemmensen.


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02-08-2013, 12:32 PM
  #50
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I predict that IF Luongo is moved, it wont be until the offseason because needing a backup to come along with the package further shrinks the teams who would be able to accommodate that stipulation.

So in the offseason , if its Luongo , and not Schneider, who is moved, the deal will not get any sweeter and gms will not offer any more than they already have. Nobody ever questioned his ability , but they question his contract and his age .

No GM in their right mind is trading for Luongo based on how he is playing right now alone. That is suicide at his age with that contract. Its so short sighted that it would be a wet dream as a Canuck fan and uttery insanity for the other team.

Putting myself in the role of a rival GM , such as the leafs, I offer Ashton, Colbourne and an unconditional 1st in 2014.

Thats a gift for the canucks. Dont think so? See how much Luongo is worth 2 years from now. How much 3 years from now?

Look at J S Giggure. He has a cup and Conn Smythe trophy . Hes worth dog crap now.

I believe Luongo to be worth far more to us than he is in trade to another team.
i cant see nonis moving a first round pick. not just for loungo, in general. he saw how badly the last time a first round pick was traded for the leafs, i dont see him taking a chance like that. the other two pieces are probably not a problem though. i get the impression that nonis wants nothing to do with the contract as well.

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