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Evgeny Kuznetsov to Edmonton

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Old
02-08-2013, 10:17 AM
  #51
caps4cup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
Typical HF ******** ...
Give your head a shake and watch some Oiler games if you think guys like Gagner, Hemsky, Hartikainen, Paajarvi, Smid, N.Schultz and Petry have no value ...

Just because they are 'recycled names' does not mean they dont hold value.
According to many people Kuznetsov is considered the best prospect in the world. Or at the very least top 5.

Would you trade Yakupov for what you're offering? Didn't think so.

You can't expect to get a potential superstar when you give up spare parts.

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02-08-2013, 10:18 AM
  #52
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Caps are not interested I suspect...

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02-08-2013, 10:19 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Oscar Acosta View Post
Not saying there is anyone, but expecting elite prospects or NHL allstars in return is where the problem lies.
What would you ask for Yakupov? Because Kuznetsov is just as good, or better of a prospect than Yakupov.

Of course you'd want Backstrom or Carlson + Alzner for Yakupov, but you're expecting Caps fans to want some combination of spare parts from Edmonton for Kuznetsov.

Here. Washington wants one of Edmontons big 5. The only untouchables are OV, Backstrom, Ribeiro, Alzner, Carlson, Green, Orlov, Holtby.

Roman Hamrlik
Jeff Schultz
Wojtek Wolski
Jay Beagle
Troy Brouwer
Tom Poti
Tomas Kundratek
Michal Neuvirth

Are all pieces that could be traded.

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02-08-2013, 10:23 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
keep telling yourself that... It is as 'idiotic' to claim that guys like Smid, Petry, Hemsky, Gagner etc are spare parts\non-factors.

And comparing Kuznetsov to Yakupov is not fair... If EDM was looking to make the playoffs and WSH calls asking for Klefbom (our top prospect not in NHL) for NHLers who we might help then EDM might consider.. Yakupov is already in NHL and producing.. No one on WSH (and strangely enough in PIT) has more goals than him.
UMMM... check Pittsburgh's stats cowboy. We have two guys with more goals than Yak and some guy named Crosby is tied with him with goals and has nine more points. It's only the matter of time before Malkin passes him as well. That said, impressed by his start.

By the way, don't put Klefblom in the same mold as Kuznetsov as far as prospect rankings. While Klefblom is a top 30 guy, prospect wise (and that is solid), the Russian is top 10 and some have him top 5. I'd venture to guess Kuznetsov would command a higher return than Klefblom.


Last edited by OCPenguin: 02-08-2013 at 10:31 AM.
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02-08-2013, 10:23 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caps4cup View Post
What would you ask for Yakupov? Because Kuznetsov is just as good, or better of a prospect than Yakupov.
He's not though.

I wouldn't trade Yakupov. Another reason all this is a pointless discussion, it benefits neither team.

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02-08-2013, 10:29 AM
  #56
Mr Tarkanian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caps4cup View Post
What would you ask for Yakupov? Because Kuznetsov is just as good, or better of a prospect than Yakupov.
Yakupov is playing in the NHL and producing, Kuznetsov is producing and playing in the KHL big difference. Yakupov has shown he can produce in the NHL well even with Kunetsov being the best prospect outside the NHL there is still a question mark as to how he will adjust in the NHL. You cant compare Yak's value and Kuznetsov's value when they are playing in two totally different leagues with different styles of hockey. Kuznetsov would fetch a nice return but not as much as Yak at this point in time.

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Originally Posted by caps4cup View Post
What would you ask for Yakupov? Because Kuznetsov is just as good, or better of a prospect than Yakupov.

Of course you'd want Backstrom or Carlson + Alzner for Yakupov, but you're expecting Caps fans to want some combination of spare parts from Edmonton for Kuznetsov.

Here. Washington wants one of Edmontons big 5. The only untouchables are OV, Backstrom, Ribeiro, Alzner, Carlson, Green, Orlov, Holtby.

Roman Hamrlik
Jeff Schultz
Wojtek Wolski
Jay Beagle
Troy Brouwer
Tom Poti
Tomas Kundratek
Michal Neuvirth

Are all pieces that could be traded.
Again big difference with Kuznetsov not being in the NHL, well our big 5 are all playing and producing in the NHL. Value's are not the same and there is no way i would expect to get Backstrom or Alzner + Carlson for Yak thats just dumb.


Last edited by Mr Tarkanian: 02-08-2013 at 10:35 AM.
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02-08-2013, 10:33 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
most sites list him as a RW ...
Can play both positions IIRC. Plus, Kuznetsov has taken ~2 faceoffs per game this year in KHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caps4cup
Here. Washington wants one of Edmontons big 5. The only untouchables are OV, Backstrom, Ribeiro, Alzner, Carlson, Green, Orlov, Holtby.
Which one of the Big 5 will play at least the next 1,5 years in the KHL? It's not remotely the same thing valuewise.

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02-08-2013, 10:41 AM
  #58
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0 incentive to trade him. Why would we wait so long for him only to trade him?

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02-08-2013, 10:42 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by caps4cup View Post
You can't expect to get a potential superstar when you give up spare parts.
And you can't expect a young star at present for someone who is only potential right now... there is literally no incentive for any rational team to do that...

Klefbom for Kuznetsov is fair... both are only potential at this point- one a potential top forward and the other a potential top pairing defender... both have excelled in men's leagues outside NA... ignoring need etc. the value is there. Argue what you will but the facts are that never in the history of the NHL has a U22 player with a) 105 points (Hall) b) 126 points (Eberle) or the two most recent first overalls been worth an unproven, untested 20-year-old who will be 22 before he debuts in NHL...

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02-08-2013, 10:49 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
'As a fan I hope Caps don't trade Kuznetsov unless one of RNH, Hall, Yakupov, or Eberle are coming back' = not ignorant and an excellent post.

orignal comment not so excellent and a bit infurirating to fans in EDM.

Anyways I dont expect anything to change around here and every proposal involving EDM will continue to end at 'one of the big 5 or nothing'
Good Lord man. If You Want the Caps best prospect, then YES. Thats is the answer. Big 5.

If you want Joel Ward or Jeff Schultz, then NO, that wouldnt be the answer. Not Big 5.

You are being just as obtuse on this....as you claim everyone else is.

Get it?

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02-08-2013, 10:50 AM
  #61
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Kuznetsov is probably one of the least likly prospects to ever get traded

Washington values him as possibly the best prospect not in the NHL currently. At least the best not playing in North America. Washington has been patient. He has stated he will come over after the Olympics. So Washington fully expects him to play for them eventually. Washington is not competing this season it seems no need to trade for vets to improve the team this season.

Other teams see him as a risk that may never come over to the NHL and are not going to pay top prospect prices for him.

It makes not sense for other teams to pay full value and it makes no sense for the Capitals to take anything less.

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02-08-2013, 10:52 AM
  #62
Ridley Simon
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Originally Posted by Oscar Acosta View Post
But not a Taylor Hall or Jordan Eberle is the point.Regardless, the topic is moot as it'll never happen. Doesn't work for either team.
Total supposition. Until Kuz is over here, we have no idea. There is a reason he dominated a russian team that ALSO had Yakupov and Tarasenko on it.

If Kuz isnt at Hall and Eberle's potential level, than neither is Yakupov

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02-08-2013, 10:53 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
Good Lord man. If You Want the Caps best prospect, then YES. Thats is the answer. Big 5.

If you want Joel Ward or Jeff Schultz, then NO, that wouldnt be the answer. Not Big 5.

You are being just as obtuse on this....as you claim everyone else is.

Get it?
Too bad the Caps best prospect does not get you any of the big 5, value wise its not close.

Get It ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
Total supposition. Until Kuz is over here, we have no idea. There is a reason he dominated a russian team that ALSO had Yakupov and Tarasenko on it.

If Kuz isnt at Hall and Eberle's potential level, than neither is Yakupov
Yak is producing in the best league in the world, Kuznetsov is not. Yak may not be at Hall or Eberle's level but his value in the NHL is higher than Kuznetsov right now.

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02-08-2013, 11:01 AM
  #64
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The last thing Edmonton needs is another small, light weight C, Edmonton passes.

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02-08-2013, 11:01 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
Total supposition. Until Kuz is over here, we have no idea.
Correct... so it would follow he cannot logically have the same value as those who are known quantities at the same age... sorry, but facts and reality win out... not your fantasies...

Quote:
There is a reason he dominated a russian team that ALSO had Yakupov and Tarasenko on it.
Because he had ten points against a weak team and was double shifted in the third to get there... wow, great player... love the attitude...

Quote:
If Kuz isnt at Hall and Eberle's potential level, than neither is Yakupov
Please tell me which of these is not like the other...

Player A: 10 GP 5-3-8, age 19
Player B: 1X 50 point season, age 20
Player C: 2X 20 goal season, age 21
Player D: 1X 30 goal season, age 22
Player E: 10 GP, 3-3-6, D, age 22

Player F: 0 GP, 20

So no, Kuznetsov is not at any of their levels... and we won't know if he even is for two years... when players A through E will be playing in the NHL and contributing and developing against the best... continue to push your fantasies though... very entertaining

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02-08-2013, 11:13 AM
  #66
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Unfortunately the NHL is not about interesting trades... this seems to be where you differ from reality... it's about value... in no world is Kuznetsov worth five players his age or younger who have proven to be NHLers... he is worth a young unproven player with similar upside or an older star nearing or at rental status... nothing more nothing else... anything else is Caps fans living in dreamworld...

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02-08-2013, 11:15 AM
  #67
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Despres/Matta/+TK+1st from Pitt??

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02-08-2013, 11:19 AM
  #68
caps4cup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchultzSquared View Post
And you can't expect a young star at present for someone who is only potential right now... there is literally no incentive for any rational team to do that...

Klefbom for Kuznetsov is fair... both are only potential at this point- one a potential top forward and the other a potential top pairing defender... both have excelled in men's leagues outside NA... ignoring need etc. the value is there. Argue what you will but the facts are that never in the history of the NHL has a U22 player with a) 105 points (Hall) b) 126 points (Eberle) or the two most recent first overalls been worth an unproven, untested 20-year-old who will be 22 before he debuts in NHL...
Klefbom for Kuznetsov isn't even close to fair. That's like me saying Yakupov for Orlov.

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02-08-2013, 11:20 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
Typical HF ******** ...
Give your head a shake and watch some Oiler games if you think guys like Gagner, Hemsky, Hartikainen, Paajarvi, Smid, N.Schultz and Petry have no value ...

Just because they are 'recycled names' does not mean they dont hold value.
They have value. Just not to the team acquiring em. Kind of a square peg in a round hole thing.

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02-08-2013, 11:23 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
But your comment was as ignorant as saying EDM would not trade Klefbom to WSH unless one of Backstrom and Alzner are coming back.



Yes because it would really make sense to trade one of EDM's top liners each of which is good enough to challenge for team Canada olympic team for a very good prospect who might never play for EDM ..
The point of OP was that EDM is still rebuilding while WSH might want to push for playoffs this year and make some trades. A rebuilding team would not move a key core player.
Don't expect to acquire other teams core players without giving up something of quality.

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02-08-2013, 11:25 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by SchultzSquared View Post
Unfortunately the NHL is not about interesting trades... this seems to be where you differ from reality... it's about value... in no world is Kuznetsov worth five players his age or younger who have proven to be NHLers... he is worth a young unproven player with similar upside or an older star nearing or at rental status... nothing more nothing else... anything else is Caps fans living in dreamworld...
Take a look at it from a Caps fan's perspective. What on Edmonton's roster would motivate you to trade Kuznetsov? I think you'll come to the same conclusion that Caps fans and a number of outside fans have as well.

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02-08-2013, 11:25 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
Good one.

As I thought.

You Oiler kids are silly...dont get what you want, and then act all ********. Caps dont want to trade Kuznetsov for players that are not as good as him, and somehow the Caps fans are now dissing all of the Oilers "non Big 5" players?

And we are pathetic?

You've created quite a thread here. Good job.
It was not the Caps fan base that were pathetic there generally good, it was just you for that sad little post. You want to trade Kuznetsov for players who have more value then him and then you get all hurt when we point out it's not gonna happen, go read back through the thread apparently the big 5 are the only things that are not trash on the Oilers, if that not dissing then i dont know what is. You can keep Kuznetsov and hope when he shows up in 2 years that he pans out but in this point in time no GM (not just the Oilers) is going to give you anything is the level of our big 5 for a guy who has not played in the NHL and wont for another 2 years at least, maybe that will change and Kuznetsov will turn to to be the next Ovie for you guys but until that happens his value is no where near what you seem to think it is.

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02-08-2013, 11:26 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by caps4cup View Post
Klefbom for Kuznetsov isn't even close to fair. That's like me saying Yakupov for Orlov.
How??? That is not the same in any sense... we're talking the best drafted teenager in the world for a 21-year-old who is a promising young defender... sheerly by being first overall Yakupov is in a class by himself and his performance so far is as good as any player in the five years before him from that spot... meanwhile Klefbom was a lower first rounder and has shown nothing to suggest he is not a future top pairing D... if you argue that you are arguing any suggestion what Kuznetsov has done suggests he is a future top forward... they are also similar in draft pedigree and age.

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02-08-2013, 11:27 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Mr Tarkanian View Post
Kuznetsov nowhere near the class of Eberle, Hall or RNH i suppose you could argue he is in the same class as Yakupov but without seeing him in the NHL its tough to say, putting up good numbers in the KHL is good but not a window of how he will do in the NHL (see Tim Stapleton) I'm not saying GAGNER, Teubert and a second is even close but neither is asking for any of the young guys for a guy who has proved nothing in the NHL which is a different style of hockey than the KHL. When he comes over here and starts lighting it up then we can re visit.
How long does Hall needs to be in the NHL before he the next Crosby or Malkin? Those three kids are good but they aren't Malkin or Crosby. Kuznetsov is ranked 5th by HF ahead of Alex Galyenchuk. You can bet he would be higher if he was coming over. The kid is a stud and yes he is in their class.

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02-08-2013, 11:28 AM
  #75
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Don't expect to acquire other teams core players without giving up something of quality.
Are you seriously suggesting a player who will not dress for at least two more years is a core player... maybe I misunderstood you...

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