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Top American Born Goaltenders?

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02-08-2013, 01:00 PM
  #1
Morgoth Bauglir
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Top American Born Goaltenders?

Not sure if this has been done before but I have to admit to a certain ignorance regarding the country of origin of most players. So! Who are the all-time top American born goaltenders and how do they stack up against the competition? Could the participants in the goaltender project possibly enlighten me here?

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02-08-2013, 01:07 PM
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Depends on the lists.

Some have Barrasso at one but most have Mr Zero Freddie Brimsek at one. I go with the later.

Not always but these are considered the best US goalies. In no certain order:

Barrasso
Brimsek
Ricther
Vanbiesbrouk
Miller
Hebert
Thomas
Dunham

And now you can start adding in some of the new goalies that I am sure will overtake some of the listed above goalies.

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02-08-2013, 01:19 PM
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Morgoth Bauglir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
Depends on the lists.

Some have Barrasso at one but most have Mr Zero Freddie Brimsek at one. I go with the later.

Not always but these are considered the best US goalies. In no certain order:

Barrasso
Brimsek
Ricther
Vanbiesbrouk
Miller
Hebert
Thomas
Dunham

And now you can start adding in some of the new goalies that I am sure will overtake some of the listed above goalies.
Ah! I was unaware that Barrasso was American born. Same with Beezer.

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02-08-2013, 01:30 PM
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eddytheeagle20
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barrasso is a bostonian and beezer is from the motor city

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02-08-2013, 01:43 PM
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rfournier103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
Depends on the lists.

Some have Barrasso at one but most have Mr Zero Freddie Brimsek at one. I go with the later.

Not always but these are considered the best US goalies. In no certain order:

Barrasso
Brimsek
Ricther
Vanbiesbrouk
Miller
Hebert
Thomas
Dunham

And now you can start adding in some of the new goalies that I am sure will overtake some of the listed above goalies.
How about Jim Craig? I know his NHL career wasn't good, (11-10-7, I think...), but the 1980 Olympics MUST be taken into consideration. The list of American goalies with world/Olympic championships is a short one. I also think Paul Henderson should be in the Hall of Fame. It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Statistics. If you go by accomplishments, and not just stats, Craig belongs on the list.

The above list is great, by the way...

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02-08-2013, 01:45 PM
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rfournier103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddytheeagle20 View Post
barrasso is a bostonian and beezer is from the motor city
Good on you for saying "Bostonian" and not "Bostonite". I heard someone say "Bostonite" the other day and almost had an aneurysm...

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02-08-2013, 01:45 PM
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Those are some good guys. It's nice to have a rich history of countrymen in hockey.

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02-08-2013, 01:47 PM
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Morgoth Bauglir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfournier103 View Post
How about Jim Craig? I know his NHL career wasn't good, (11-10-7, I think...), but the 1980 Olympics MUST be taken into consideration. The list of American goalies with world/Olympic championships is a short one. I also think Paul Henderson should be in the Hall of Fame. It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Statistics. If you go by accomplishments, and not just stats, Craig belongs on the list.

The above list is great, by the way...
Good call.....I know a generation of American hockey fans owe their interest in the game to Craig and the Miracle on Ice gang

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02-08-2013, 01:51 PM
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Brimsek #1 for me...the man was a legend. In the era of the original six, I believe at one time 3 out of the 6 starting goalies in the NHL were American including Frank. and the crazier part is I believe they all came from the tiny town of Eveleth Minnesota.
love that town..

I also have Richter over Barrasso. I dont even have it as a close second either for Ricter as I have Thomas ahead of Barrasso as well. Richter did far more with USA Hockey than Barrasso ever could have. the 91 Canada Cup - Silver, 96 World Cup- Gold, and 02 Salt Lake City Olympics - Silver easily puts him above Barasso imo. they both have stanley cup rings so you cant argue that either.

I dont even think Barrasso made the 91 Canada Cup team as Richter and Vanbiesbrouk were the pair. But that could of been the same time where his child was going through some health problems, so I dont remember.

for me the list goes like this:

1. Frank Brimsek
2. Mike Richter
3. Tim Thomas
4. Tom Barrasso
5. John Vanbiesbrouk
6. Ryan Miller
7. Jon Quick
8. Mike Dunham
9. Guy Hebert
10. Jon Casey

how anyone cannot have Tim Thomas in the top 3 is crazy as the guy might not have the longest body of work, but 2 Vezina trophies and a Cup says hi!!

I added Ryan Miller and Jon Quick as I feel they belong listed with the best US goalies of all time and they still have plenty of years left to continue to move up the list.

Rick Dipietro is a name just outside of the top 10 as he carried the Isles for a number of years on his back, but his last 4 seasons have been a near nightmare, so I have him at #11 right now.

I am sure I am forgetting a few guys as I did this off the top of my head, but guys like Damian Rhodes, Jim Carey, Brian Boucher, Brent Johnson, etc all had decent stits in the spotlight, but all outside the top 10.

Jimmy Howard and Craig Anderson likely will be top 10 players by the time their career ends...just not quite yet.


Last edited by AmericanDream: 02-08-2013 at 01:57 PM.
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02-08-2013, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
Good call.....I know a generation of American hockey fans owe their interest in the game to Craig and the Miracle on Ice gang
love Craig, but he couldnt stop a beachball at the NHL level...he cant be on this list for his overall work imo.

he is clearly the #1 on greatest impact for the position in the US, but his numbers and time in the NHL were not very good

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02-08-2013, 01:58 PM
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Rob Scuderi
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Here's my stab at it. edit: I flipped Quick and Miller, which I should have done originally I think
  1. Frank Brimsek
  2. Tom Barrasso
  3. John Vanbiesbrouck
  4. Tim Thomas
  5. Mike Richter
  6. Ryan Miller
  7. Jonathan Quick
  8. Mike Karakas
  9. Guy Hebert
  10. Jon Casey

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02-08-2013, 02:00 PM
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vadim sharifijanov
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number one has to be brimsek. full career, even though interrupted by the war. two cups and a 1st or 2nd team all-star all five years before the war. came back and put up three more (straight) 2nd team all-stars and made a third finals after the war.

second tier would be guys with long careers and high peaks, including at least one excellent playoff run. barrasso and beezer, and miller possibly joining that tier when all is said and done (vezina plus he began his career with two ECF appearances in his first two years.)

third tier would be the guys with short but spectacular peaks. thomas, richter, and to a lesser degree mike karakas. richter has the fuller career, but not by as much as we might think, thomas with the otherworldly peak.

time will tell where quick belongs, and i guess also miller. but as it stands, i think both are above the "field" (jon casey and hebert, with jimmy howard possibly rising to the top of that pile by the time his career is over). i don't think dunham even belongs in any discussion of a top ten, or is much if at all distinguishable from dipietro, terreri, brian boucher, etc. i'd already put quick's short career with one elite season above dunham's long-ish career of not much.

1. brimsek
2. barrasso
3. vaniesbrouck
4. thomas
5. richter
6. miller (can climb)
7. quick (can climb)
8. karakas
9. hebert/casey (better sustained regular season peak vs. one single, anomalous playoff run; tough choice)

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02-08-2013, 02:03 PM
  #13
vadim sharifijanov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
Here's my stab at it. edit: I flipped Quick and Miller, which I should have done originally I think
  1. Frank Brimsek
  2. Tom Barrasso
  3. John Vanbiesbrouck
  4. Tim Thomas
  5. Mike Richter
  6. Ryan Miller
  7. Jonathan Quick
  8. Mike Karakas
  9. Guy Hebert
  10. Jon Casey
haha-- we have identical lists

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02-08-2013, 02:07 PM
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Rob Scuderi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
haha-- we have identical lists
the quick edit of Miller over Quick did me well. Even more scary, I had tiers condensed by the auto-numbering feature and the only difference was I bumped Thomas up to the second group and made a somewhat arbitrary distinction of a 4th separate tier including the guys 8-10.

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02-08-2013, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
love Craig, but he couldnt stop a beachball at the NHL level...he cant be on this list for his overall work imo.
Whoa there, hold your horses, not so dismissive of Jim Craig plz. He had the skill's, the knowledge, innate talents & abilities, however, I think he basically just had like a sort of male form of postpartum depression after delivering the Gold Medal in 1980's win against the Red Machine. Wasnt handled properly thereafter. Probably shouldve taken a year off & gotten drunk. Thats what I wouldve prescribed/done if I was Jimmy. Let the world buy me a drink. A big one.... Regardless, that performance alone (eff the NHL, those games were played at level beyond anything seen professionally at that time) absolutely elevates him into the pantheon of Great American Goaltenders, and there are quite a few others as well; Jack McCartan who won Gold at Squaw Valley etc & Carl Wetzel to name but two. Lots of tremendous Goaltenders, more so than at any other position coming out of the States over the past Century. An extremely interesting history & group of players actually.

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02-08-2013, 02:12 PM
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tony d
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For me the top 5 would be:

1) Brimsek
2) Barasso
3) Vanbiesbrouck
4) Richter
5) Miller

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02-08-2013, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfournier103 View Post
How about Jim Craig? I know his NHL career wasn't good, (11-10-7, I think...), but the 1980 Olympics MUST be taken into consideration. The list of American goalies with world/Olympic championships is a short one. I also think Paul Henderson should be in the Hall of Fame. It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Statistics. If you go by accomplishments, and not just stats, Craig belongs on the list.

The above list is great, by the way...
For me, Craig will always have a special place but his overall body of work doesn't get him up there.

I have met him through family, golfed with him and Silky. I need to hide my identity now as I just threw Craig under the bus.

Remember my list is not in order, I was just throwing names out there that I think are the top 10 but again in no particular order. I do think Fred Brimsek is the best US goalie though, after that it gets murky for me. I loved the Beezer but what Barrasso did can not be looked over neither can Mike Richter. I guess those guys are my next 3 but hard to put in order.

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02-08-2013, 02:28 PM
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vadim sharifijanov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
the quick edit of Miller over Quick did me well. Even more scary, I had tiers condensed by the auto-numbering feature and the only difference was I bumped Thomas up to the second group and made a somewhat arbitrary distinction of a 4th separate tier including the guys 8-10.
a moment of clarity, right? i don't blame you for the original choice-- if cory schneider plays this year like quick did for you guys last year, i'll be tempted to put him #1 on my american goalies list.

EDIT: wait, it's bring BACK scuderi. pens fan?

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02-08-2013, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
a moment of clarity, right? i don't blame you for the original choice-- if cory schneider plays this year like quick did for you guys last year, i'll be tempted to put him #1 on my american goalies list.

EDIT: wait, it's bring BACK scuderi. pens fan?
Yes, pens fan who likes Rob Scuderi a little too much. I caught too caught up in the playoff aspect, but longevity is where its at when ranking goalies imo. I do think Quick could end up much higher, but that doesn't matter here.

I think Schneider and very possibly Howard will crack this list before it's all said and done too.

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02-08-2013, 02:40 PM
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vadim sharifijanov
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open question: am i misremembering because i was living near buffalo at the time and cheering for those guys, or are people forgetting how good miller was in the playoffs his first two years?

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02-08-2013, 03:19 PM
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Didn't read the whole thread, I see Mike Dunham is a little bit overrated on some lists.

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02-08-2013, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by begbeee View Post
Didn't read the whole thread, I see Mike Dunham is a little bit overrated on some lists.
Again with the off handed remarks. Dunham did more than BGL ever did.

Go look at a list of US goalies before saying stuff like this. The US has not had a great amount of goalies play the game worth mentioning. This recent era of US goalies is completely new. Most of the US goalies now will outdo players like Dunham but they need a few more years in before I will put them on the list. But Dunham had a very good college, AHL, international career with an average NHL career.


.908% SA 2.74 GA on some really awful teams including an expansion team is not horrible. But again, it's the lack of overall great US goalies that has him here...for now.

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02-08-2013, 04:27 PM
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Theres been over 80 US Born Goalies who have played in the NHL, though once past about 35 or so, most having only played a handfull of games, 2, 1 or maybe just a couple of periods. By the numbers, the guys with the most games, Wins & Save%'s as follows;

Vanbiesbrouck
Barrasso
Richter
Brimsek
Hebert
Miller
Casey
Terreri
Dunham
Thomas
Snow
Karakas
Boucher
DiPietro
Rhodes
Johnson
Anderson
Quick
Graham
Conklin
Howard
Esche
P.LoPresti
Cary
Clemson
Mason
Jablonski
Jenecyk
S.LoPresti
Schneider
Stauber
Montoya
Baker
Blue
etc...

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02-08-2013, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
Here's my stab at it. edit: I flipped Quick and Miller, which I should have done originally I think
  1. Frank Brimsek
  2. Tom Barrasso
  3. John Vanbiesbrouck
  4. Tim Thomas
  5. Mike Richter
  6. Ryan Miller
  7. Jonathan Quick
  8. Mike Karakas
  9. Guy Hebert
  10. Jon Casey
The top 6 is easy for those of us who participated in the recent goalie ranking project. Has Quick already surpassed Karakas?

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02-08-2013, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
Again with the off handed remarks. Dunham did more than BGL ever did.

Go look at a list of US goalies before saying stuff like this. The US has not had a great amount of goalies play the game worth mentioning. This recent era of US goalies is completely new. Most of the US goalies now will outdo players like Dunham but they need a few more years in before I will put them on the list. But Dunham had a very good college, AHL, international career with an average NHL career.


.908% SA 2.74 GA on some really awful teams including an expansion team is not horrible. But again, it's the lack of overall great US goalies that has him here...for now.
What has Dunham common with BGL? Why are you mixing apples with oranges?
Please stop bringing Laraque into all threads with my posts. It's called offtopic. Thanks.

Indeed..it's your list. If you feel Dunham is #7 or so..fine. His problem was that he couldnt live with his potential. He never translated his talent to NHL level. Jim Carey did more in two seasons than him.

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