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Old
07-05-2006, 03:04 PM
  #51
charliemurphy
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I am very well informed about Yankee prospects and I agree about Tabata and his comparison's to Ramirez. Tabata is very disciplined at the plate, very mature for his age.
Since you're a scout, could you tell me anything on the following players:
Jesus Montero
Jose Pirela
Carlos Urena

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07-05-2006, 03:16 PM
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The vast majority of players who receive a bonus of over $500,000 make it not only to AAA, but to the majors. I'm not talking about older players like Contreras, I'm speaking of players 17 and under.
I can't disagree with you here but Montero is about as close to cant miss as you can get without being there. His bat alone should be enough to get him to the Majors.

I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't seen as the best latin player from this years crop of FA's in a years time though. The Mets got the "prize" of last years crop in Fernando Martinez and Jose Tabata has out performed him in every aspect of the game (and it also seems that Martinez's arm was more hype than substance.)

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07-05-2006, 03:53 PM
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puhhlease and last season the Mets signed Ted Williams with speed. You clearly don't have access to these scouts.
I work for an independant publication and scout baseball (mostly the Yankees system) for a living, and I talk to scouts that work for MLB teams all the time. Three different scouts I talked to that work for MLB teams all told me the same exact thing about Tabata.

And besides, if you knew anything, you would realize what player comparisons are all about. Comparing a player to Manny Ramirez doesn't mean that the player will be as good as he is. But when you watch Tabata, his stance, swing, etc., the first player he would remind you of would be Ramirez. The fact that he has similar hitting traits to Ramirez at a young age also supports that comparison. Also, I believe it was in the NY Post a few months ago, Joel Sherman received the same information from one of the scouts that I have spoken to.
Okay, I have to say that was one of the best responses to a challenge that I've ever read on this board. No real point other than the fact that I enjoyed the exchange.

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07-05-2006, 04:17 PM
  #54
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I work for an independant publication and scout baseball (mostly the Yankees system) for a living, and I talk to scouts that work for MLB teams all the time. Three different scouts I talked to that work for MLB teams all told me the same exact thing about Tabata.

And besides, if you knew anything, you would realize what player comparisons are all about. Comparing a player to Manny Ramirez doesn't mean that the player will be as good as he is. But when you watch Tabata, his stance, swing, etc., the first player he would remind you of would be Ramirez. The fact that he has similar hitting traits to Ramirez at a young age also supports that comparison. Also, I believe it was in the NY Post a few months ago, Joel Sherman received the same information from one of the scouts that I have spoken to.
PWNED!

What makes it even more sweet is that he has been, and will most likely continue to be better than Fernando Martinez at 1/3 of the price!

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07-05-2006, 05:58 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by charliemurphy View Post
I am very well informed about Yankee prospects and I agree about Tabata and his comparison's to Ramirez. Tabata is very disciplined at the plate, very mature for his age.
Since you're a scout, could you tell me anything on the following players:
Jesus Montero
Jose Pirela
Carlos Urena
I can't really give you a whole lot of info on Pirela and Urena. Unless you're a scout with a professional organization, it's difficult to get a real good look at most of the International players before they come over to the U.S. All I really know about them is what I was told this morning. Pirela is a SS, really average in every offensive area, and above average in the field. His speed is definitely his best trait, which I was told graded out to a 75 on the 20-to-80 grading scale. I heard better things about Urena, he has existing offensive tools with the ability to be a major power threat.

Montero however was definitely the prize of the International class this year. He's going to stay at catcher for now, but everyone pretty much agrees he will be moved to 1B in the future because of his size (already 6'3, 228 at the age of 16). The Yankees, and about a half dozen other teams (including the Mets) graded him out to 80 power on their scale. Everyone I've talked to says Travis Hafner when they see him, but I think that's more based on his body size. Yes, he's 16 and his body is being compared to Hafner. Crazy, I know. Yanks have said they plan on keeping him at catcher, but like I mentioned earlier, it will be very hard for him to continue to grow and stay at catcher. Plus, the latest I heard was that the Yankees weren't completely out of the Francisco Pena sweepstakes, who is definitely the best "catcher" available, and he is the son of Tony Pena. Mets, Cubs, Nationals, Braves, and Yankees are the five teams gunning for him. I still think the Braves have the advantage, but anything can happen.

But anyway, Montero is the best International player available this year, and some would say he's the best that's been available since Miguel Cabrera. The power that he has at 16 years old is scary. Considering the Yankees recent history of being cautious with prospects, he probably won't be in the majors as quickly as he could be, which I would say is early-mid 2009.

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07-05-2006, 06:06 PM
  #56
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I can't disagree with you here but Montero is about as close to cant miss as you can get without being there. His bat alone should be enough to get him to the Majors.

I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't seen as the best latin player from this years crop of FA's in a years time though. The Mets got the "prize" of last years crop in Fernando Martinez and Jose Tabata has out performed him in every aspect of the game (and it also seems that Martinez's arm was more hype than substance.)
You could certainly be right, the only difference I think is that the gap between Montero and the rest this year is larger than the gap between Martinez and the rest last year. Everyone I know was scratching their heads at why Tabata only received $500,000. There were concerns about his size (5'11, 165 at signing) and his ability to maintain athleticism, as his body type didn't look like one that would be able to put on weight proportionally. But he's put on about 20 pounds of muscle over the past year, and has made all of us that put that on his sheet look silly. His body type looks to be the exact opposite of what was said. But anyway, his offensive potential (75 contact and 70 power w/high upside) should have erased those concerns. He looks like a great RFer down the road. He can play a great CF, but Austin Jackson and Brett Gardner are better at the position than he, so he'll stick in the corner.

Martinez and Tabata look like they will both be great players. The edge right now has to go to Tabata because he's played a very complete game, and Martinez has had some issues (you brought up a good one about his arm), but both are going to be great hitters.

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07-05-2006, 06:27 PM
  #57
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But anyway, Montero is the best International player available this year, and some would say he's the best that's been available since Miguel Cabrera.
That is saying a lot. Cabrera is the best player people do not know about. It is scary just how good he is. If him and Pujols changed teams, it would be MCab that everyone would annoit as the best player in baseball.

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07-05-2006, 06:28 PM
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Ever since that "catch", Yankee fans have been overrating Cabrera non-stop.

It's boderline ridiculous.
The guy has come in and played more than adicquate for a player of his age, playing on a championship type team, under pressure to perform in the heat of a playoff run. No one's calling him a superstar, just a guy who makes the sting of Matsui going down seem alot less painful. If we had traded for a player we could not have done better. Cabrera is a MLB player and has proven it despite what other Mets fans might think.

He went from red hot, to cold, back to hot again. That shows he can make adjustment's. Cabrera has always been known as an excellent breaking ball hitter & can hit the fast ball. He's got all the tools to be a MLB player (note: did NOT say Superstar)

The Yankees have their share of superstars on their way up. Next up: Philip Hughes

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07-05-2006, 07:45 PM
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Cabrera hits his first ML grand slam tonight

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07-05-2006, 08:06 PM
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Cabrera hits his first ML grand slam tonight
yep, got a hold of a breaking ball ...

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07-05-2006, 08:32 PM
  #61
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yep, got a hold of a breaking ball ...
And just followed that up with a BOOMING double to the opposite field (and the deepest part of the Jake). He is on freakin' fire for the last 10 days and the BA is back up to .272.

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07-05-2006, 08:39 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Save By Richter View Post
I can't really give you a whole lot of info on Pirela and Urena. Unless you're a scout with a professional organization, it's difficult to get a real good look at most of the International players before they come over to the U.S. All I really know about them is what I was told this morning. Pirela is a SS, really average in every offensive area, and above average in the field. His speed is definitely his best trait, which I was told graded out to a 75 on the 20-to-80 grading scale. I heard better things about Urena, he has existing offensive tools with the ability to be a major power threat.

Montero however was definitely the prize of the International class this year. He's going to stay at catcher for now, but everyone pretty much agrees he will be moved to 1B in the future because of his size (already 6'3, 228 at the age of 16). The Yankees, and about a half dozen other teams (including the Mets) graded him out to 80 power on their scale. Everyone I've talked to says Travis Hafner when they see him, but I think that's more based on his body size. Yes, he's 16 and his body is being compared to Hafner. Crazy, I know. Yanks have said they plan on keeping him at catcher, but like I mentioned earlier, it will be very hard for him to continue to grow and stay at catcher. Plus, the latest I heard was that the Yankees weren't completely out of the Francisco Pena sweepstakes, who is definitely the best "catcher" available, and he is the son of Tony Pena. Mets, Cubs, Nationals, Braves, and Yankees are the five teams gunning for him. I still think the Braves have the advantage, but anything can happen.

But anyway, Montero is the best International player available this year, and some would say he's the best that's been available since Miguel Cabrera. The power that he has at 16 years old is scary. Considering the Yankees recent history of being cautious with prospects, he probably won't be in the majors as quickly as he could be, which I would say is early-mid 2009.
Thanks SBR.
My younger brother went to school with Eric Duncan, since he was drafted I've been getting more and more into prospects and have established a couple of connections in both Tampa and Trenton. Duncan's a good kid. Very mature for his age. Reminds me alot of Jeter, same mindset. The fact that he was rushed this past season didn't help him, landing on the shelf didn't help either.
I went to Trenton to see Hughes pitch this past Monday night. If you are a Yankee fan, you will quickly fall in love with this kid. I've been following him since he was drafted as well and I can assure everyone he is the real deal. IMO...he'll be starting in the Bronx next season. If he keep pitching the way he has, he'll make the starting rotation out of ST.
Montero. His size/weight is what really jumped out at me. I've seen him listed anywhere from 6'2"-6'4"/210-240. I realize that international players are harder to scout but at the age of 16, he is far from reaching his max. I just don't see him staying behind the plate unless he sheds the baby fat, turns the rest into muscle and doesn't add much more weight.
If they get Pena, I'll be really excited.

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07-05-2006, 08:46 PM
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Thanks SBR.
My younger brother went to school with Eric Duncan, since he was drafted I've been getting more and more into prospects and have established a couple of connections in both Tampa and Trenton. Duncan's a good kid. Very mature for his age. Reminds me alot of Jeter, same mindset. The fact that he was rushed this past season didn't help him, landing on the shelf didn't help either.
I went to Trenton to see Hughes pitch this past Monday night. If you are a Yankee fan, you will quickly fall in love with this kid. I've been following him since he was drafted as well and I can assure everyone he is the real deal. IMO...he'll be starting in the Bronx next season. If he keep pitching the way he has, he'll make the starting rotation out of ST.
Montero. His size/weight is what really jumped out at me. I've seen him listed anywhere from 6'2"-6'4"/210-240. I realize that international players are harder to scout but at the age of 16, he is far from reaching his max. I just don't see him staying behind the plate unless he sheds the baby fat, turns the rest into muscle and doesn't add much more weight.
If they get Pena, I'll be really excited.
Kay on tonight's broadcast just related a conversation he had with the Thunder manager, Massey. (Generally, I dislike Kay intensely - he gives off this bitter vibe that's just NOT attractive - but this was worth listening to.) The following is paraphrased:

Kay: Who does Hughes remind you of the most?
Massey: I'd have to say Roger Clemens. Seriously. He's 6'4" and 230 and in 2 years he'll be 250. He throws 90-95, generally around 92, but can crank it up to 95 when he needs a strikeout. He very mature - seems much older than his 20 years old.
Kay: Does he project to a #2 or a #3?
Massey: No, no - he projects to an ace.
Kay: Could he pitch in the majors this year?
Massey: AB-so-lute-ly. But the Yankees are doing the right thing - they're working him along slowly. Right now he's on a 80 pitch count.

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07-05-2006, 08:55 PM
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Kay on tonight's broadcast just related a conversation he had with the Thunder manager, Massey. (Generally, I dislike Kay intensely - he gives off this bitter vibe that's just NOT attractive - but this was worth listening to.) The following is paraphrased:

Kay: Who does Hughes remind you of the most?
Massey: I'd have to say Roger Clemens. Seriously. He's 6'4" and 230 and in 2 years he'll be 250. He throws 90-95, generally around 92, but can crank it up to 95 when he needs a strikeout. He very mature - seems much older than his 20 years old.
Kay: Does he project to a #2 or a #3?
Massey: No, no - he projects to an ace.
Kay: Could he pitch in the majors this year?
Massey: AB-so-lute-ly. But the Yankees are doing the right thing - they're working him along slowly. Right now he's on a 80 pitch count.

I've heard alot about hughes but i havne't seen him pitch. Is he the best pitching prospect in baseball right now?

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07-05-2006, 10:03 PM
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I've heard alot about hughes but i havne't seen him pitch. Is he the best pitching prospect in baseball right now?
Of all the pitching prospects in the minors, I would say he's the best. Going into the year, I had him ranked 7th. But the guys in front of him (Liriano, Billingsley, Verlander, Cain, Lester) are in the majors now. The top three right now is Phil Hughes, Homer Bailey, and Mike Pelfrey. Also note, IMO, Liriano is the only guy who has more natural talent than him. These guys were ranked above him because of his limited experience. Guys like Billingsley, Cain, Lester, they all have suspect control to go along with raw stuff. Hughes has tremendous control, that's his greatest trait. Pinpoint control on the fastball, and great control of the curveball for a kid who just turned 20 a week ago. Verlander has very good control, but I think Hughes will have a better K rate.

At the start of the season, I had Pelfrey above Hughes, but I knew that wouldn't last too long. All Hughes needed to do was show he could continue to get it done at A, and then dominate at AA, to pass Pelfrey.


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07-05-2006, 10:06 PM
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Kay on tonight's broadcast just related a conversation he had with the Thunder manager, Massey. (Generally, I dislike Kay intensely - he gives off this bitter vibe that's just NOT attractive - but this was worth listening to.) The following is paraphrased:

Kay: Who does Hughes remind you of the most?
Massey: I'd have to say Roger Clemens. Seriously. He's 6'4" and 230 and in 2 years he'll be 250. He throws 90-95, generally around 92, but can crank it up to 95 when he needs a strikeout. He very mature - seems much older than his 20 years old.
Kay: Does he project to a #2 or a #3?
Massey: No, no - he projects to an ace.
Kay: Could he pitch in the majors this year?
Massey: AB-so-lute-ly. But the Yankees are doing the right thing - they're working him along slowly. Right now he's on a 80 pitch count.
Seaver is another pitcher you think of when you see Hughes.

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07-05-2006, 10:19 PM
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I listen to every single Thunder game Hughes' pitches, I followed him all of last year as well. This kid is the goods.

6'4/6'5 at about 230. Just TURNED 20 a couple weeks ago and has dominated since the Yankees drafted him. He has a very good motion, effortless motion really. Fastball sits between 91-93 and tops at 95/96 though many think he should add a tick or two as his upper body fills in. He's a moose, huge legs. Has a good curveball, good but developing change and a good slider. Excellent control, he might not have the great raw stuff of a Homer Bailey or Liriano but he commands his stuff so well and he does have very good stuff, anyway. Very mature kid, down to earth. He is spiecal, not just another overhyped Yankee prospect. He, along with Homer Bailey, are the two top pitching prospects currently in the minors. Pelfrey, Garza, Sanchez, etc a notch below. As with any young pitcher, health will be the only thing that keeps him from being successful in the majors. Just gotta pray he stays on the field.

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07-05-2006, 10:23 PM
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I listen to every single Thunder game Hughes' pitches, I followed him all of last year as well. This kid is the goods.

6'4/6'5 at about 230. Just TURNED 20 a couple weeks ago and has dominated since the Yankees drafted him. He has a very good motion, effortless motion really. Fastball sits between 91-93 and tops at 95/96 though many think he should add a tick or two as his upper body fills in. He's a moose, huge legs. Has a good curveball, good but developing change and a good slider. Excellent control, he might not have the great raw stuff of a Homer Bailey or Liriano but he commands his stuff so well and he does have very good stuff, anyway. Very mature kid, down to earth. He is spiecal, not just another overhyped Yankee prospect. He, along with Homer Bailey, are the two top pitching prospects currently in the minors. Pelfrey, Garza, Sanchez, etc a notch below. As with any young pitcher, health will be the only thing that keeps him from being successful in the majors. Just gotta pray he stays on the field.
I've read similar, but great to hear it from someone who follows the minors for a living - for the love of Jebus, don't trade him for Soriano...

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07-05-2006, 10:31 PM
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I've read similar, but great to hear it from someone who follows the minors for a living - for the love of Jebus, don't trade him for Soriano...
Haha, I wished I did do it for a living. I guess I could say I do, just without being paid or being known, lol. I just love following the minors and knowing about the future kids, espiecally Hughes and Tabata. Hughes just one of those guys that scouts rave about and stats back it up. I've seen him pitch a couple times in person, and like I said before...I've listened to every game he started since joining the Thunder....he's just been impressive. Nothing you can really knock him on.

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07-05-2006, 10:33 PM
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BTW, this Sunday at 4 ET on ESPN2, Hughes and Tabata will both be playing in the Futures Game. Hughes will pitch an inning and Tabata will probably get an at-bat or two. Good chance to catch a sneak preview of the two.

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07-05-2006, 10:35 PM
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Haha, I wished I did do it for a living. I guess I could say I do, just without being paid or being known, lol. I just love following the minors and knowing about the future kids, espiecally Hughes and Tabata. Hughes just one of those guys that scouts rave about and stats back it up. I've seen him pitch a couple times in person, and like I said before...I've listened to every game he started since joining the Thunder....he's just been impressive. Nothing you can really knock him on.
Hahahahahahahaha - whoops, had you mixed up with Saved By Richter. But he's the one who compared him to Seaver and had him listed as the best pitching prospect who hasn't seen time in the majors, so I stand by my earlier comment.

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07-05-2006, 10:45 PM
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Hahahahahahahaha - whoops, had you mixed up with Saved By Richter. But he's the one who compared him to Seaver and had him listed as the best pitching prospect who hasn't seen time in the majors, so I stand by my earlier comment.
Haha, it's all good.

Just like to say thanks to SBR for his insightful posts. Like you said, it's nice to hear these comments from someone who does do it for a living.

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07-05-2006, 10:56 PM
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I listen to every single Thunder game Hughes' pitches, I followed him all of last year as well. This kid is the goods.

6'4/6'5 at about 230. Just TURNED 20 a couple weeks ago and has dominated since the Yankees drafted him. He has a very good motion, effortless motion really. Fastball sits between 91-93 and tops at 95/96 though many think he should add a tick or two as his upper body fills in. He's a moose, huge legs. Has a good curveball, good but developing change and a good slider. Excellent control, he might not have the great raw stuff of a Homer Bailey or Liriano but he commands his stuff so well and he does have very good stuff, anyway. Very mature kid, down to earth. He is spiecal, not just another overhyped Yankee prospect. He, along with Homer Bailey, are the two top pitching prospects currently in the minors. Pelfrey, Garza, Sanchez, etc a notch below. As with any young pitcher, health will be the only thing that keeps him from being successful in the majors. Just gotta pray he stays on the field.

From everything I've read, it seems as though Hughes doesn't throw a slider anymore because the Yankees want their pitchers throwing Fastballs, Changeups, and Curveballs. I read that he someday wants to throw a slider again, but I thought he wasn't throwing them anymore. I could be wrong though, and if you listen to the games, do they say anything differently?

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07-05-2006, 11:06 PM
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From everything I've read, it seems as though Hughes doesn't throw a slider anymore because the Yankees want their pitchers throwing Fastballs, Changeups, and Curveballs. I read that he someday wants to throw a slider again, but I thought he wasn't throwing them anymore. I could be wrong though, and if you listen to the games, do they say anything differently?
He uses his slider. Just not as often as his curve, change, and obviously his fastball. It's more of a 4th pitch for him now, instead of high school where it was his strikeout pitch. Still a good slider when it's on and he's able to throw it for strikes.

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07-05-2006, 11:07 PM
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From everything I've read, it seems as though Hughes doesn't throw a slider anymore because the Yankees want their pitchers throwing Fastballs, Changeups, and Curveballs. I read that he someday wants to throw a slider again, but I thought he wasn't throwing them anymore. I could be wrong though, and if you listen to the games, do they say anything differently?
Hughes throws the slider, but not very often. He'll be able to throw it often once his arm is fully developed. It's his best pitch, and could very well be his #1 strikeout pitch in the majors.

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