HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Evgeny Kuznetsov to Edmonton

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-08-2013, 12:01 PM
  #101
12345*
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 735
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Tarkanian View Post
It was not the Caps fan base that were pathetic there generally good, it was just you for that sad little post. You want to trade Kuznetsov for players who have more value then him and then you get all hurt when we point out it's not gonna happen, go read back through the thread apparently the big 5 are the only things that are not trash on the Oilers, if that not dissing then i dont know what is. You can keep Kuznetsov and hope when he shows up in 2 years that he pans out but in this point in time no GM (not just the Oilers) is going to give you anything is the level of our big 5 for a guy who has not played in the NHL and wont for another 2 years at least, maybe that will change and Kuznetsov will turn to to be the next Ovie for you guys but until that happens his value is no where near what you seem to think it is.
What you don't seem to get is that, Kuznetsov's PRICE TAG that Washington defines doesn't change because of his probability of coming to the league. His PRICE TAG is high because he is a high end talent. And if he ever comes to the NHL, he WILL be a high end player. His Russian connection and associated risk impacts how much teams are willing to PAY. Washington is not going to trade him at what people are WILLING to pay, but based on the PRICE TAG set out by his potential. If he was some scrub 3rd liner, of course Washington would move their PRICE TAG. He isn't some scrub.

12345* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 12:04 PM
  #102
12345*
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 735
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SchultzSquared View Post
So a player who will, from Draft Day to debut, not be in the lineup for four years, is a core player on the Washington Capitals right now...
He's not core in the line up. But he is a central prospect in their organization and has a lot more value than most of the players in that organization other than the top few players currently on their roster.

It's like Malkin pre-NHL. Just because he was in Russia prior to coming to Pittsburgh doesn't change the fact that he was central to Pittsburgh's rebuild when they drafted him #2 overall. Just because he isn't an active player doesn't change the fact that the player is important to the organization. You, as a buyer, would attempt to devalue him because of the risk that he doesn't come over -but that is your perogative based on risk management. Washington aren't looking to move the player so their is no reason for them to reduce their price tag.

12345* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 12:10 PM
  #103
LPH
[hello] :)
 
LPH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Granduland
Country: United States
Posts: 39,441
vCash: 50
I believe Kuznetsov doesn't hold as much value as any of the "big 5" right now, but he's worth significantly more than anything they have on their roster. If Edmonton fans are tired of hearing "big 5 or no deal" then stop asking for elite players/prospects

LPH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 12:12 PM
  #104
Stewie G
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,121
vCash: 500
I'll pose the same question again since none of the Edmonton fans answered it earlier.

You need to picture yourself in the Caps situation for this to make any sense. Considering the state of the team right now, what on the Edmonton roster would motivate you to deal Kuztensov?

Stewie G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 12:18 PM
  #105
caps4cup
Dynasty
 
caps4cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 4,834
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
No, and Kuznetsov wouldn't get you close to getting Klefbom. Klefbom has the potential of being a top pair D, which are rarer then small, light weight, highly skilled forwards. Edmonton needs a top pair D to pair with J.Schultz in the future and is sounds like Klefbom could be the one. Would Kuznetsov make the Oiler team, highly doubtful, due to the fact that he isn't going to replace RNH, and he doesn't have the size the Oilers need for a 2nd line C. It's not about skill or potential, but what the Oilers need, and some Oilers fans forget there is other parts to the game of Hockey then offense.
Kuznetsov >>> Klefbom. And you keep mentioning his small stature but he's 6 foot 3. This post is just wrong on so many levels.


Last edited by spiny norman: 02-08-2013 at 12:32 PM. Reason: not needed
caps4cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 12:20 PM
  #106
Mr Tarkanian
Ali Bomaye!
 
Mr Tarkanian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 652
vCash: 404
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12345 View Post
Tell me how it is illogical rather than making some vague comeback statement that has an ad hominem centrality. You have 3-4 players set to exit ELC with Hall's foolish contract as being the benchmark. How is my statement illogical? Because you say so?
First from the guy who's teams is paying Ovie that brutal contract, your calling Hall's contract foolish ?? Second Oilers will be freeing up close to 15 mil or more in cap space in the summer along with already being 16 under the Cap (which will be going down so will what RNH and Schultz sign for) and then Hemsky's 5 mil will come off the books are next season and he will have to take a paycut or not be coming back i'd think. Despite what people think we have enough talent coming up to replace what we may lose in third and fourth liners and Gagner and Smid are the only two due raises next year and it wont be that substantial (4 each i'd think). Oilers will be fine they have more than enough space to re sign the 3 guys left on ELC and still field a competitive team.

Mr Tarkanian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 12:21 PM
  #107
WeridAl
YuckaFlux
 
WeridAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: 10ft of Snow
Posts: 1,749
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by caps4cup View Post
Kuznetsov >>> Klefbom. And you keep mentioning his small stature but he's 6 foot 3. This post is just wrong on so many levels.
Read the posting, the Oilers don't need another small highly skilled C, they have more of a need of a top pair D, that is why Kuznetsov doesn't get you Klefbom. I never said he was better.


Last edited by spiny norman: 02-08-2013 at 12:33 PM. Reason: qmep
WeridAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 12:23 PM
  #108
Mr Tarkanian
Ali Bomaye!
 
Mr Tarkanian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 652
vCash: 404
Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
I believe Kuznetsov doesn't hold as much value as any of the "big 5" right now, but he's worth significantly more than anything they have on their roster. If Edmonton fans are tired of hearing "big 5 or no deal" then stop asking for elite players/prospects
Wow......I agree with a canuck fan END OF DAYS

Seriously though, good post.

Mr Tarkanian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 12:24 PM
  #109
LPH
[hello] :)
 
LPH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Granduland
Country: United States
Posts: 39,441
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
If you read the posting, it explains why Kuznetsov wouldn't get you Klefbom, but you being a Canucks fan I can understand the problem.
It's the "wasn't close" part. I understand team need, and that defenseman are needed in Edmonton, but Kuznetsov is simply a better prospect.

LPH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 12:25 PM
  #110
LPH
[hello] :)
 
LPH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Granduland
Country: United States
Posts: 39,441
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
Read the posting, the Oilers don't need another small highly skilled C, they have more of a need of a top pair D, that is why Kuznetsov doesn't get you Klefbom. I never said he was better.
pretty sure he isn't a small player...

LPH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 12:25 PM
  #111
capitalsrock
Registered User
 
capitalsrock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 1,876
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Needles View Post
Who may never play a single NHL game. People have to take this into account when dicussing about possible return.

Yes they do. They also need to strenghten the center position. So going after a player like Kuznetsov would make a ton of sense. Plus, having another young Russian forward in Edmonton could be beneficial for Yakupov on and off the ice.
He is coming after Sochi.

Quit lying to yourself by saying he may never play an NHL game.

capitalsrock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 12:26 PM
  #112
LPH
[hello] :)
 
LPH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Granduland
Country: United States
Posts: 39,441
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Tarkanian View Post
Wow......I agree with a canuck fan END OF DAYS
Let us never speak of this again!!!! I have come to agreements with Leafs fans and Oiler fans this week

LPH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 12:27 PM
  #113
legendinblue
LEAFS SUCK
 
legendinblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 6,077
vCash: 50
If he may not come over (which he will) why'd you want to trade for him in the first place? Think it's been established Caps fans are not willing to trade him for the proposed return.

legendinblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 12:29 PM
  #114
LPH
[hello] :)
 
LPH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Granduland
Country: United States
Posts: 39,441
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Tarkanian View Post
First from the guy who's teams is paying Ovie that brutal contract, your calling Hall's contract foolish ?? Second Oilers will be freeing up close to 15 mil or more in cap space in the summer along with already being 16 under the Cap (which will be going down so will what RNH and Schultz sign for) and then Hemsky's 5 mil will come off the books are next season and he will have to take a paycut or not be coming back i'd think. Despite what people think we have enough talent coming up to replace what we may lose in third and fourth liners and Gagner and Smid are the only two due raises next year and it wont be that substantial (4 each i'd think). Oilers will be fine they have more than enough space to re sign the 3 guys left on ELC and still field a competitive team.
Oilers will be fine for cap even when everyone is off ELCs, you guys will prob be just a more top-heavy team, which has seen success many times before

LPH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 12:30 PM
  #115
BTD5504
Registered User
 
BTD5504's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Virginia
Country: United States
Posts: 1,756
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Tarkanian View Post
First from the guy who's teams is paying Ovie that brutal contract, your calling Hall's contract foolish ?? Second Oilers will be freeing up close to 15 mil or more in cap space in the summer along with already being 16 under the Cap (which will be going down so will what RNH and Schultz sign for) and then Hemsky's 5 mil will come off the books are next season and he will have to take a paycut or not be coming back i'd think. Despite what people think we have enough talent coming up to replace what we may lose in third and fourth liners and Gagner and Smid are the only two due raises next year and it wont be that substantial (4 each i'd think). Oilers will be fine they have more than enough space to re sign the 3 guys left on ELC and still field a competitive team.
Yes. Ovie EARNED a huge contract with two MVP awards and multiple 50+ goal seasons and a 65 goal season. He's not playing well now, but he earned his contract.

Hall has done what exactly to earn that long of a contract with that much money?

BTD5504 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 12:35 PM
  #116
kp61c
Registered User
 
kp61c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Moscow
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 777
vCash: 833
yak plays in the nhl so hes better than kuz, what a logic as for now kuz is better AINEC, itd be moronic for caps to trade kuz if there werent one of the big 5 in the deal

kp61c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 12:39 PM
  #117
Mr Tarkanian
Ali Bomaye!
 
Mr Tarkanian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 652
vCash: 404
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTD5504 View Post
Yes. Ovie EARNED a huge contract with two MVP awards and multiple 50+ goal seasons and a 65 goal season. He's not playing well now, but he earned his contract.

Hall has done what exactly to earn that long of a contract with that much money?
Well if Hall turns out to be what Oiler fans have been seeing the last two years this contract is gonna be a beauty. He is the engine that drives this team, he leads they follow and i see him as the next captian. 6 mil a season might be a little higher than what Benn, Skinner, Seguin all got but to get him to commit long term to the worst team in the league over the last 3 years you probably had to overpay a little bit. Hall got market value for what other young stars at his level are getting.

Mr Tarkanian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 12:41 PM
  #118
12345*
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 735
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Tarkanian View Post
First from the guy who's teams is paying Ovie that brutal contract, your calling Hall's contract foolish ?? Second Oilers will be freeing up close to 15 mil or more in cap space in the summer along with already being 16 under the Cap (which will be going down so will what RNH and Schultz sign for) and then Hemsky's 5 mil will come off the books are next season and he will have to take a paycut or not be coming back i'd think. Despite what people think we have enough talent coming up to replace what we may lose in third and fourth liners and Gagner and Smid are the only two due raises next year and it wont be that substantial (4 each i'd think). Oilers will be fine they have more than enough space to re sign the 3 guys left on ELC and still field a competitive team.
For your information, I am not a Washington fan. The sheer idiocy of your argument has brought in a third party individual into the argument - that should tell you something about the quality of your argument. Ovechkin has had many seasons where his GOAL totals eclipsed Hall's point totals. Ovechkin has NEVER produced as little as Hall has. Hall is not the player Ovie is, even at Ovie's worst. Ovie had proven himself for many seasons before he received his contract (individual hardware, absolute domination) - how much has Hall done before receiving his? 53 points isn't worth 6 million.

12345* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 12:41 PM
  #119
Mr Tarkanian
Ali Bomaye!
 
Mr Tarkanian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 652
vCash: 404
Quote:
Originally Posted by kp61c View Post
yak plays in the nhl so hes better than kuz, what a logic as for now kuz is better AINEC, itd be moronic for caps to trade kuz if there werent one of the big 5 in the deal
How is Kuznetsov better AINEC ?? please explain ??

Mr Tarkanian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 12:42 PM
  #120
BTD5504
Registered User
 
BTD5504's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Virginia
Country: United States
Posts: 1,756
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Tarkanian View Post
Well if Hall turns out to be what Oiler fans have been seeing the last two years this contract is gonna be a beauty. He is the engine that drives this team, he leads they follow and i see him as the next captian. 6 mil a season might be a little higher than what Benn, Skinner, Seguin all got but to get him to commit long term to the worst team in the league over the last 3 years you probably had to overpay a little bit. Hall got market value for what other young stars at his level are getting.
I don't really disagree with your point, just disagreeing with the notion that Ovechkin didn't earn the contract he signed. He definitely earned it, now he just needs to live up to it.

BTD5504 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 12:45 PM
  #121
Mr Tarkanian
Ali Bomaye!
 
Mr Tarkanian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 652
vCash: 404
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12345 View Post
For your information, I am not a Washington fan. The sheer idiocy of your argument has brought in a third party individual into the argument - that should tell you something about the quality of your argument. Ovechkin has had many seasons where his GOAL totals eclipsed Hall's point totals. Ovechkin has NEVER produced as little as Hall has. Hall is not the player Ovie is, even at Ovie's worst. Ovie had proven himself for many seasons before he received his contract (individual hardware, absolute domination) - how much has Hall done before receiving his? 53 points isn't worth 6 million.
Basing a players worth on stats on hardware show you have no clue about what Hall brings to the Oilers outside of stats,. Hall is being played market value for players on his level, Ovie is being paid for what he used to be not what he is currently.

Mr Tarkanian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 12:47 PM
  #122
Mr Tarkanian
Ali Bomaye!
 
Mr Tarkanian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 652
vCash: 404
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTD5504 View Post
I don't really disagree with your point, just disagreeing with the notion that Ovechkin didn't earn the contract he signed. He definitely earned it, now he just needs to live up to it.
I can agree with this, sometimes I tend to forget what the Ovie did early in his career. he earned his contract but like you said he needs to live up to it.

Mr Tarkanian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 12:50 PM
  #123
birddog*
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,988
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
I believe Kuznetsov doesn't hold as much value as any of the "big 5" right now, but he's worth significantly more than anything they have on their roster. If Edmonton fans are tired of hearing "big 5 or no deal" then stop asking for elite players/prospects
He doesn't but he has such high upside there is no reason to trade him for Sam Gagner and a 2nd.

birddog* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 12:53 PM
  #124
12345*
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 735
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Tarkanian View Post
Basing a players worth on stats on hardware show you have no clue about what Hall brings to the Oilers outside of stats,. Hall is being played market value for players on his level, Ovie is being paid for what he used to be not what he is currently.
His hardware is a reflection of his absolute domination of the league and his core role of his team's offense. Hardware and on ice contribution aren't mutually exclusive. People that talk about "intangibles" for offensive players are usually insecure about the production of those players. At the very core of offense are those statistics measured by the league - to say otherwise is hilarious. Intangibles is a nice way to bridge the gap between production and pay - to justify a ridiculous contract. INTANGIBLES - MY SAVIOUR! HE'S GOT INTANGIBLES, I WIN!

12345* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 12:53 PM
  #125
kdfsjljklgjfg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Gloversville, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,508
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SchultzSquared View Post
He is so good he has 0 GP, 0 G, 0 A in the NHL.
So does MacKinnon. I guess whoever gets the 1st overall pick is better off trading it for George Parros and his 1-0-1 stat line.

kdfsjljklgjfg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:23 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.